Ep. 137: Board Meetings | Top 5 Barriers to Outdoor Climbing Improvement

In this episode Nate and I sit down to discuss an important topic - the top 5 reasons why people who train and train and train still can't improve their climbing outdoors. It can be a struggle, there isn't a 1:1 return on training investment, particularly if you don't have a few key things in place. 

• BAD PARTNERS

• SPEED BUMPS THAT TURN INTO SINKHOLES

• YOU DON’T GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE

• WRONG AMOUNT OF OUTDOOR MILEAGE

• HAVING A-Z GOALS BUT NOT A-B GOALS

Do you or your partners fall into one of these categories? If so, listen in and level up! 

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:01

Hey everybody, Kris here. Just a quick message before we get this episode going. On August 16 to August 18, Nate and I will both be in El Cerrito, California, San Francisco area, at Bridges Rock Gym and we'll be teaching a youth team workshop that's for youth team members, for coaches, and for parents as well. And we'll be doing two days with the kids one day a workshop, the second day a mock comp where we work with each kid. We'll be taking the coaches through the same workshop so that they can help us in the workshop and we can help them with their coaching skills, the language they use, the feedback they use, and how they talk to the kids about movement to get to get things rolling in the right direction with all these youth climbers. The parents workshop will also be concerning.... it'll be a discussion concerning the feedback that we use with climbers and how that can affect their mindset. So that's open to anybody who wants to come out for it. And that will be August 16 to 18th. And you can check out and get tickets at BridgesRockgym.com. There will also be a link right there in your show notes on your pocket supercomputer directly to the event tickets, and you can buy individual parts. If you're just a coach, buy only the coaching workshop. If you're a parent who's really interested, you can come and just participate in the parents discussion. So hope to see you all there. Again, that's Bridgesrockgym.com in El Cerrito, California, August 16th to  18th. Thanks.

Kris Hampton  02:25

What's up everybody. I'm your host, Kris Hampton. 

Nate Drolet  02:28

And this is Nate Drolet.

Kris Hampton  02:30

 And together we form the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. 

Nate Drolet  02:35

Boom.

Kris Hampton  02:36

 They should be part of the team. We are the Power Company after all. 

Nate Drolet  02:40

Yeah

Kris Hampton  02:41

We should...in fact, we should start a team called the Power Rangers. How cool would that be?

Nate Drolet  02:46

That would be cool.

Kris Hampton  02:48

We'd all wear different colors.

Nate Drolet  02:50

 Yeah. I call Green.

Kris Hampton  02:51

And masks.

Nate Drolet  02:53

Haha

Kris Hampton  02:55

 I'm definitely the Yellow Ranger then. We need a pink ranger. 

Nate Drolet  03:01

Blake?

Kris Hampton  03:02

No, not Blake. Blake's not the Pink Ranger. Who can be our pink ranger? We need a good. pink ranger. We'll think on that. 

Nate Drolet  03:10

Okay

Kris Hampton  03:10

I'll have it by the end of the episode. What are we talking about today exactly?

Nate Drolet  03:17

Barriers to improving outside.

Kris Hampton  03:20

Yeah, because, you know, I mean, training is addictive for a lot of people. It's really easy to measure. I can't believe I just said that in conjunction with training for climbing. But it's easier to measure inside whether you think you're improving or not. And then you get outside and everything falls apart. I've seen that happen a lot. And I think there's some main roadblocks main barriers to that improvement transferring over to the outdoors and that's what we're going to talk about.

Nate Drolet  04:04

 Yeah.

Kris Hampton  04:06

 And our....is is one of those that we had five reasons, we had six actually, I think on this one.

Nate Drolet  04:13

I think we started with like nine.

Kris Hampton  04:15

Yeah. And we consolidated and boiled it down and then we were like, "Okay, which should be number five, and which should be number one? And then we'll fill in the middle." And we were like, "Yeah, all of these could be number one." So these are not in any specific order, other than we had to put them in some order to say them, because otherwise it gets really confusing if we say them all at one time. 

Nate Drolet  04:41

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  04:42

So our number five currently is our number five roadblock for improving outside is that you don't have the right partners. We've talked about this in the podcast before. I did an episode with two clients of mine, Scott and Tyler and and those guys found each other were perfect partners for each other. And we really cultivated that both in their training and in their climbing outside and it made all the difference for both of them. But that that's tough to find. Not everybody finds it.

Nate Drolet  05:17

Yeah. Great partner is huge. I think... I can't remember who was. Who's the Westside Barbell guy?

Kris Hampton  05:25

Oh........ oh....If you hadn't asked me that, I could tell you.

Nate Drolet  05:29

I'm drawing a blank. I think it was him who said that a good training partner is more valuable than a great coach. And I agree.

Kris Hampton  05:42

Because I'm a great coach, I'm not sure I agree with that, but 

Nate Drolet  05:45

Maybe equal. 

Kris Hampton  05:47

But I do see the point.

Nate Drolet  05:49

Yeah, like having someone else there who can know you intimately, who can push you, like they are on your same wavelength

Nate Drolet  05:58

Like and it's, you know, like, as a coach, like, every coach does their best to try and connect with someone. But you know, like a climbing partner, these are the people that you go out, you spend 10 hours at the crag with on your weekends. Like you spend the entire drive, you know, you may drive to another state to go climbing together. Like you know, them, you know their family, like all these things. Like these are the people that they're an integral part of your life. And sometimes you're in a bad belaytionship.

Kris Hampton  05:58

Yeah

Kris Hampton  06:28

Haha. I've been seeing that word far too often lately. We've had a task in our shared Board Meeting topic list for quite some time that said, "How to tell you're in a bad longterm belaytionship" 

Nate Drolet  06:47

"Top ten way to tell you're in a bad long term belaytionship." 

Kris Hampton  06:50

But now that the word "belaytionship" is being used all over the Instagram, I'm gonna have to just nix that one. 

Nate Drolet  06:56

I know

Kris Hampton  06:56

Or just come back to it later.

Nate Drolet  06:59

But let it be known I, I used it first in our secret folder that no one else ever knew about.

Kris Hampton  07:03

Haha. I'll vouch for you. Yeah. And you know, I also think that it doesn't have to be just one person, just the same person all the time. I think you can have several good partners. And, and maybe I think it's a good thing, to switch it up from time to time. To sometimes be the strongest person in the group, to sometimes be the weakest person in the group. I think that's a good thing.

Nate Drolet  07:31

 Totally

Kris Hampton  07:31

You know, so not the right partners could also extend to just climbing with the same people all the time and never getting to see other perspectives.

Nate Drolet  07:41

Yeah, I mean, it's important to see, like, some people just don't realize, like, if you go out climbing with someone who they like, take their time warming up and maybe they'll do a new route and then they go over and they can try their project like, like a hard limit project for them, like four or five times in a day and then they go out and they try to do another route afterwards. Maybe they get it done. You're like, "What the fuck? You just did, like 12 pitches of hard rock climbing. Like, we do like three normally"

Kris Hampton  08:07

 Right

Nate Drolet  08:07

"And like we set up our hammocks and we take a nap. You don't set up hammocks." But you know, if you don't get to see the way other people operate, or realizing that some people are like, "Okay, like, I just got off my project, I'm going to wait at least an hour before I try it again. And if I'm tying in, then I tie in with the intention of doing work. If I'm not trying to send, I am there to learn. "

Kris Hampton  08:31

Yep.

Nate Drolet  08:31

 Like there are no, there's no wasted time. You know and there's times where it is nice to just go out and have fun and do whatever, depending on time of the year what your goals are. But it's nice to be able to have that perspective of seeing what all the different ranges are.

Kris Hampton  08:45

Yeah. And you know, I have to say this, that maybe your significant other isn't the best partner for you. I mean, sometimes that's a real thing. If one of you or the other aren't willing to work on what's potentially a really difficult, really difficult moment in your relationship, which happens pretty often while rock climbing, then maybe the best person isn't that significant other and you two should be out climbing with other people. And that's totally okay.

Nate Drolet  09:22

Yeah. And I think it's even, I think it's important, because, you know, it's tough if you're climbing with your significant other, like, you're holding them to two standards. Like they're supposed to be like, they're supposed to have your back. 

Kris Hampton  09:36

That's a really important part of it that I never really think about.

Nate Drolet  09:40

Yeah, it's, you know, it's like, you want them as a climbing partner, but at the same time, like they're supposed to be like your support. They're supposed to have your back, like all these things. And those two things conflict. 

Nate Drolet  09:50

Like, let me tell you as someone who has belayed someone who they were like, "Okay, now when I get up if I say 'Take', ask me if I'm sure. " You know, they go up and like they are like "Take" and, I'm like, "Are you sure? You're on point. "  and they are like "I said, fucking take!!" I'm gonna take, okay. But so you know, it's tough when you're trying to balance both, like wear both hats. But honestly, I think some of the best things you can do is go climb with other people because sometimes you can start to take a step back and be like, "Wow, you know, maybe I was overreacting in some of these situations, because I was holding them to a different standard than what I would hold, you know, my regular climbing partner to". 

Kris Hampton  09:50

Yeah

Kris Hampton  10:27

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  10:28

So that kind of perspective, I think is really important, both for a relationship and just for climbing. I never thought I'd use that phrase on this podcast.

Kris Hampton  10:38

And until they come up with robot belayers, you're stuck with people. So you might as well find the right ones.

Nate Drolet  10:43

I'm so ready. 

Kris Hampton  10:44

Yeah, me too. 

Nate Drolet  10:45

But yeah, you know, I think it's, I think it's important to have, find people who are on the same day plan as you. Like, if someone's idea of a great day is going out and they want to go bushwhack, maybe try and find a new cliff they sort of heard about

Kris Hampton  10:59

That's got a crack on it somewhere.

Nate Drolet  11:01

It's got a crack on it somewhere. You know, and to them, like doing three new pitches is a great day. Sounds wonderful. I'd love to read about it someday.

Kris Hampton  11:11

Yeah. And then that could be great. But you should probably be with a partner who wants to do that as well. 

Nate Drolet  11:16

Yes. Like, totally same thing. Like, if you're an early morning person, and you're like, "Hey, I want to be leaving the crag at seven", stop trying to make plans with people who are not morning people. Like and stop being surprised when they they're like, "Hey, I'm just gonna meet you there."

Kris Hampton  11:33

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  11:34

Like, you know, a certain certain point, it's just, you got to recognize that these are how things are

Kris Hampton  11:41

Find some afternoon projects. 

Nate Drolet  11:42

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  11:45

All right. And, you know, I think I think having the right partner, especially the first type we talked about, where you're, you're really close to that person and you're able to connect, I think that type of partner can really help you through this number four. And that's that speed bumps often turn into sinkholes. And this one started as as your baby, so I'm going to let you explain it a little bit.

Nate Drolet  12:17

You know, there's a couple ways that this can manifest. To me, the first thing that came to mind was, people will have one little thing pop up. So maybe they've got to travel for a week of work and then when they get back, they're sick and then after that, they've got like, you know, renovations on their house. And maybe, or maybe if a family member dies or something like that or they gotta go to a wedding. And they let one little thing and they're like, "Oh, well, I got a week of work, so I'm just gonna not worry about climbing." and then it's like, "Well, I gotta do some house renovation, so I'll just keep pushing things back."

Kris Hampton  12:52

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  12:52

And the thing is, like, they keep waiting for these perfect conditions, and they never happen, so they never get anything done. Before you know it, they're like, "Oh, I I've climbed like, four days all summer and it's fall now. I don't I don't know what I'm going to do"

Kris Hampton  13:08

Yeah, I think that's super, super common. And I would see it with potential partners, pretty often. You know, which is sort of why I built a crew of partners that I had to choose from.

Nate Drolet  13:24

A buffer.

Kris Hampton  13:25

 Exactly. Because as you become more... as you, as you go more and more into the adult world, people have more and more responsibilities. 

Kris Hampton  13:37

Totally. Yeah, you know, and there's, there's a lot of ways that speed bumps can come in. Like to me, these were the obvious like, you know, some life things happen. I mean, that's just it. Like, if there's anything I've learned from coaching, like more than anything is that life is constantly happening to everyone all the time. 

Nate Drolet  13:37

And it never stops.

Kris Hampton  13:37

You know, not not everyone lives at the crag. And yeah, and they don't stop. There's going to be another thing after this thing. That's just the way it goes. And to think that that's not going to happen is is just not thinking it through, so you have to plan a little bit. And but when those little speed bumps happen, you have to take it like a speed bump and just get back on track. Do what you can do, keep moving forward. You know, it can't be this, "Oh, I'll just wait till next time, I'll just wait till next time, I'll just wait till next time" or letting things spiral out of control. And that's why that's what I meant by saying that I think that type of partner that you're close to, can really help this thing happen. Not only just can they talk to you, talk you through it, but you're also holding yourself a little bit accountable to that person. You know, if you're that close to someone, and they have it scheduled that they're going out on Wednesday morning, and you're like, "I don't know. Tuesday was kind of a shit show. I don't know if I can make it out Wednesday morning." If you're really invested in your partner, you're gonna say, "Okay, I need to make it out for that person regardless" and I think that goes a really long way.

Kris Hampton  15:12

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  15:13

Like, I think I mentioned it the other day on the podcast, but I've got one of the guys I train all but one weekend of October, he has to go to a wedding. 

Kris Hampton  15:21

Right

Nate Drolet  15:22

 He has terrible friends. 

Kris Hampton  15:23

You need new friends, new friends. 

Nate Drolet  15:25

Yeah, but I mean, that's just and he climbs in the New River Gorge

Kris Hampton  15:27

 In fact, actually don't get new friends, because all your friends are going to be married now, so you won't ever have to go to a wedding again

Nate Drolet  15:33

Perfect. But skip the weddings.

Kris Hampton  15:36

Haha.

Nate Drolet  15:37

 But yeah, I mean, like, things are always going to be happening and popping up, so it's good to make some sort of priorities and say, "Okay, well, you know, these four, four weekends I'm traveling, but I want to be trying to perform in November. Maybe I should, you know, plan ahead when I'm traveling for what I'm going to eat"

Kris Hampton  15:56

Yeah

Nate Drolet  15:57

Things like that, like, yeah, because I mean, that's the kind of thing you know, if you go to like, a three day weekend of 

Kris Hampton  16:03

Taco Bell

Nate Drolet  16:04

Just whatever. Yeah, you know, like traveling food, plus wedding food plus drinking and all that, like, you know, you, you do four weekends of that in a row and it's like, suddenly, November is a weight training season.

Kris Hampton  16:16

Yeah, sure is. 

Nate Drolet  16:18

But uh,

Kris Hampton  16:19

I also think it can manifest itsel and we talked a little bit about this and, and we both saw it opposite ways, like injuries, 

Nate Drolet  16:29

Yes

Kris Hampton  16:29

Can be a little speed bump. And they can either take you down the sinkhole of, "Oh, I'm not, I can't do any more training. I can't climb. I need to rest for a month", or it can become, "I'm going to ignore this injury. I'm going to ignore this injury, I'm going to ignore this injury" and then it becomes this big sinkhole and you have to take the season off and you never do address it. 

Nate Drolet  16:55

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  16:56

 You know, so it goes both ways, I think.

Nate Drolet  16:59

Totally, you know, I think the, for the first one, where you have an injury, and you're like, "Oh, I'm just gonna rest or whatever", like, never waste an injury. I'm a strong believer in that. Like, there is always something you can be developing. It doesn't matter like what has happened, there's always something you can be doing.

Kris Hampton  17:23

 Yeah.

Nate Drolet  17:23

 And I think that's, you know, that's one of the things that separates really great climbers are, you know, they still get injuries. Like, you know, even guys, like, the best climbers have injuries or have weird things happen to them, like weird tweaks

Kris Hampton  17:39

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  17:41

But the thing is, they're like, "Okay, like, I have a finger injury. I'm going to do a lot of core training. And I'm going to do maybe some ring workouts, or I'll do some really light endurance work, because I'm just going to do whatever I can keep moving forward." And really often, like a lot of people come back from injury the best they've ever been.

Kris Hampton  17:59

yeah, we've seen it happen over and over. We've seen it with Shauna Coxsey, multiple times in the past few years. Yeah, where she's injured, you see her doing all these things through her injury. Not always on the wall, but always within the climbing space in some way and then as soon as she comes back, she's winning World Cups again. You know, we've seen it happen over and over.

Nate Drolet  18:24

Yeah, you know, one of the clearest, something that happened to me and I've seen this happen to a lot of people is I, I used to be very dependent on heel hooking, and, like, tweaked my knee very severely to the point to where it was in a bad way for months. And after that, I had to learn how to be really strong with my toes. And now it's like I consider having like, long tension off my like toes to be one of my biggest strengths. 

Kris Hampton  18:51

Yeah, totally.

Nate Drolet  18:52

Had I not injured my knee, that never would have happened. Like, I would have just stayed dependent on it. Now, I also could have very easily been like, "Oh, my knee hurts. I'm just gonna take time off" and then I could have just waited until I could heel hook the exact same way I did before and do that all the time. And then I wouldn't have learned anything from it. I would have just lost time.

Kris Hampton  19:12

Right. Or you could have said, "I'm a heel hooker. That's what I do. I'm going to just tape it and keep doing it." And then you could have ended up with a really debilitating injury. 

Nate Drolet  19:23

Yes. 

Kris Hampton  19:24

So speed bumps turning into sinkholes. I think we've all seen it happen, you know. You're going to hit speed bumps. So just don't allow them to grow and become these massive things that are out of control.

Nate Drolet  19:39

Yeah, don't be surprised when they happen because I mean, shit hitting the fan is just a part of life. Like have backup plans and, you know, just try and take it in stride.

Kris Hampton  19:49

 Yep. All right, our number three, barrier to improving in the outdoors.

Nate Drolet  19:58

And I just want to emphasize it again, that these are not in any specific order. They are all very important.

Kris Hampton  20:05

Haha yes

Nate Drolet  20:05

Because every time I see like,

Kris Hampton  20:06

I know, I was thinking the same thing.

Nate Drolet  20:07

 I was just like, "This could be number one" and I'm like, "Oh, wait, that's right. We don't have a number one."

Kris Hampton  20:11

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  20:11

But for so many people, this is their number one.

Kris Hampton  20:16

Yep. And this came up this week. Because one of our patrons who was in town, I went out climbing with him and, and he wanted to get on a route that he had tried a couple of years ago or last year. And the first go up, it went fairly poorly and in his assessment, it went exactly the way it did a year ago. And, and I don't think he was going to get on it again, but I talked him into it and the second go went much better. And then he got a little bit excited about it and then a couple days later, I saw him at the crag again, get on the route, in what I thought should have been the send. Like he looked really strong on it. He looked really good on it. Felt like he tweaked his back a little bit, and pulled the draws. And I was like, "Oh, no." And I thought I thought about it for a minute, like, should I give him a pep talk? Like, should I convince him to get back on this? And then I thought, "You know what? No, I'm gonna let him work through it. See what happens." And then a couple days later, I got a text while you and I were out in the Machine Shop training that said he'd sent and I was just like, "Hell yes." You know, I'm glad he stuck it through. But in that interim, in those couple days, I was like, "I don't know if he's going to go back." And I was like, I was having this, this dilemma with, should I have said something? Or should I not have? You know, so I'm very proud of him for going back and for doing it. And he's very psyched that he did. But a lot of people never give themselves that chance. And that's what this number three is, you're not giving yourself a chance to improve. And this can go a lot of directions that we didn't even discuss yet. We were just talking about the process of climbing harder routes is hard. 

Nate Drolet  22:26

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  22:27

 You know, and some people just bail on it way too soon.

Nate Drolet  22:32

No, I mean, we see this all the time. And it's, I mean, you know, it's hard to not do in your own climbing. Like something that.... a way this manifests for me is, let's say, I'm going to go try a sport climb and I haven't been on it in two years. And two years ago, I know I got to this certain high point and so I go back and first go on, I don't even come close to that. I'm just like "Oh shit. I'm a worse rock climber. Like this is terrible."  Because it's hard to remember, it's like, "Oh, wait, I was like fighting tooth and nail to get to that high point. I had put a bunch of days in it. I had it dialed"

Kris Hampton  23:08

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  23:08

Like, of course, I'm not going to get near there, because like, I don't remember most of my beta. Like, this was me just testing it out. Like, I don't need to be stressed over this. But it's very easy to overreact when that first thing happens. Just be like "Oh, shit. Okay. No, I need to go do something else now."

Kris Hampton  23:26

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  23:27

But yeah, and we see that all the time. Like, with bouldering, I'd say one of the most common things I see is people not giving themselves time. 

Kris Hampton  23:36

Definitely

Nate Drolet  23:36

Like, they'll go out and they say, oh, they rolled with like a huge crew, they're like, "Oh, I guess I'll go try my project." They try to move each like twice and then they're like, "Okay, well, all my friends want to go climb on something else, so we'll just go over there." and then they don't do the climb. 

Kris Hampton  23:53

Right. 

Nate Drolet  23:54

But, you know, if you think about the amount of time you put into gym projects, you might put, you know, four or five, like, one to two hour sessions and do a single climb. 

Kris Hampton  24:05

Yep.

Nate Drolet  24:06

 But you go out and after 30 minutes, you write off a boulder. You know, it's hard, like you need to keep these things in perspective.

Kris Hampton  24:14

Yeah, I mean, I see it with sport climbing too, in the same way. I remember. I don't remember if I saw the video first or I read an article first of Beth Rodden on The Optimist in Smith. And her talking about it was like four or five days or something before she did all the moves. And I was like, "Whoa, what? Yeah, like, I've never even heard of that." I'm a Red River climber. You do all the moves first try on any route you get on, you know? And, and that blew me away. Like how do you stick it out on a sport climb where you can't do all the moves. But as soon as you realize that a sport climb is really just a series of boulder problems stacked on top of each other. Some of them are really easy boulder problems, some of them are much harder boulder problems. And then you look at the time you spend on boulder problems in the gym, especially where you can go in there three days a week and try the same problem. You might try the same move 30, 40 times a session sometimes, you know, and on a sport climb, you try it once, twice, three times, maybe, then you clip through, pull through, clean your draws if I can't do that move

Nate Drolet  25:36

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  25:37

That's crazy talk.

Nate Drolet  25:38

Totally, you know, when you think about, I mean, there's so many boulders that it might take you three long sessions, just to do, you know, a single boulder. And like, that's not even a long amount of time, but three sessions to do a boulder of hard work. And then after that you can go in and you can repeat it pretty much every single time, you know, with a moderate amount of effort, but you're going to repeat it, you know, 90% of the time. 

Kris Hampton  26:04

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  26:06

There aren't many people in the world who can put that much time into a boulder on a route. And I'm not saying you necessarily need to, but you need to have the perspective of like, "Okay, well, if it takes me X amount of time to do a V8 in the gym, if I want to do a route with a V8 on it, I should expect it a similar amount of time investment."

Kris Hampton  26:25

 Right. Yeah, totally.

Nate Drolet  26:28

 And I think a lot of people just don't, yeah they don't take that into account.

Kris Hampton  26:34

Yeah, you know, this is something that you and I talk about quite a bit in our workshops when we're talking to people about working moves, and perfecting moves. And we, in our presentation, we use the video of Tony Hawk during the first 900 at the X Games and it's really interesting to look at skateboarding as this parallel to rock climbing, because their runs are made up of, of some moves that they have totally dialed in, and some moves that are harder for them. And they have to practice those hard moves to make them better and better so they can connect all these moves together, just like a hard rock climb. And in that video of Tony Hawk, you know, a lot of you who are listening have seen it. And you just see the 12 or, you know, eight attempts or whatever are in the video. And it could be really easy to extrapolate and think that "Oh, he's tried that trick 50 times", you know, that wouldn't even be stretching your imagination. But if you listen close in the video, you hear Bob Burnquist in the background, say, "The 900 is 10 years deep with Tony." And the reality of it is that Tony actually first tried the trick 15 years before he landed it. Those first five years on and off occasionally, didn't really understand where he was. Then 10 years before he landed it the X Games, he starts trying it more and more regularly. There were other climber or other climbers, other skaters trying to do it at the same time. Other people were getting really close. We see those eight or 10, or whatever attempts at the X Games, but there were 15 years of learning the parts of this one trick, before he finally landed it. And then it wasn't long before he was doing it in runs, and doing it relatively regularly. And climbers very often, when they go out into the field, outdoors, were they are looking to improve. That's what all our training is for. Try something handful of times and move on. Or even just one time. I see so many people go outside, they're very concerned about getting in as much as they can on their couple of days outside and they try route once and they move on to another route. And they hang on it a couple times and they move to another route, hang on it a couple times. And that's the whole weekend looks like. And you have to ask yourself, is that going to be the thing that's more..... that I'm more proud of or would I be more proud if I spent three or four attempts on this one thing that I had to hang once on my first try or you know or twice on my first try? Because chances are you gonna do it if you put a couple of extra attempts on it. So people not giving themselves a chance.

Nate Drolet  29:55

Yeah, you know what you just finished with that, I think is really important. And that, you know, you said they may hang on at once or twice and they'll probably do it. I think a lot of people don't realize how fast you can connect things, 

Kris Hampton  30:12

Right. Yeah, they don't at all.

Nate Drolet  30:14

And it's, you know, it's like the other day, you were talking about the patron who went up, you were like, "Oh, he's on the send go." and then like he ended up pulling as draws. It's like, in your mind, you're like, "You're there." It's like, and this is something we both see all the time where someone is just so unbelievably close. It was funny, when I was climbing in the Red, I was at the Gold Coast one day and the Polish...... the Polish world...... national team was there. The guys were just monsters. I think it was like four guys on the team. But this one younger guy went up, gets on God's Own Stone, onsights up to the crux, falls, immediately pulls back on and climbs to the top. He lowers, and I was like, "Man, that was sick. Like, you got it next go" and he was like, "No, I think it's a little too powerful for me."

Kris Hampton  31:07

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  31:09

 Now I like pause, I'm like, "Hold on. Are you fucking with me right now?" 

Kris Hampton  31:13

Haha

Nate Drolet  31:14

And I guess like, what was funny is the only other guy from their team who got on it, because the other guys were just circuiting the entire crag, but the other guy flashed it, basically cutting feet intentionally on every move. He would like, make a move, cut both feet, swing them over to the next hold.

Kris Hampton  31:29

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  31:29

Do the next move. And he flashed it casually. But what's crazy is like I watched this guy...I was just like "You just did this. Like you over...you got a huge overlap. Like, first try you did the boulder once you knew what you were doing, like, you should have just done this next go."

Kris Hampton  31:44

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  31:45

You know? That's crazy. You know, he ended up doing couple easier things at the crag. You know, he, he settled for some consolation prizes, some 13 C's, some 13 B's. So that's nice, he was consoled. But I mean....

Kris Hampton  32:02

It's funny that people at that level can not realize how quickly things can come together? 

Nate Drolet  32:08

Yeah

Kris Hampton  32:08

But it definitely happens.

Nate Drolet  32:10

Totally. I mean, it happens to everyone like, and I think it's a sign of a really great outdoor climber to be able to do the opposite. I remember this was, would have been maybe like 2009, I was climbing with Jimmy out in Colorado and he would go up kind of do moves on things and maybe there'd be one move that was giving him trouble on a boulder. And once he'd figure it out, he would just pull on from the start and do the whole boulder. And this was like, you know, he was very strong at the time, but like people didn't like know much about him. And I remember I'd be standing there and people would be like, "What the fuck just happened?" Like he just like, he just did it. He didn't have to do links. He didn't have to do anything. But he he knew what he needed to do. 

Kris Hampton  32:56

Right. And he understood himself so well.

Nate Drolet  32:58

 He checked his boxes and he pulled on confidently and just got shit done. 

Kris Hampton  33:02

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  33:02

And but it was so funny seeing the reaction from people because they were like, "Well, that was out of nowhere." But it was suddenly every boulder he did was out of nowhere, kind of thing.

Kris Hampton  33:12

Haha right.

Nate Drolet  33:13

 You know, I think maybe this isn't out of nowhere. It's just 

Kris Hampton  33:15

Yeah, there's something happening here.

Nate Drolet  33:17

 Yeah, he just understood his process. You know, he could do a sequence and be like, "Okay, I'm never gonna fall on that again." 

Kris Hampton  33:23

Yep

Nate Drolet  33:24

"Okay, I'll do this sequence. I'm not gonna fall on that. Like, I just need to do this move. And I need to know the little bit little parts that connect the two pieces. If I can do that, I'll do the whole route or whole boulder."

Kris Hampton  33:33

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  33:34

And I think it's a sign you see, good, like, or great outdoor climbers, they have that confidence and they have that knowledge in themselves of what it takes. And sometimes I mean, you know, I like to think there's times where I feel very confident in myself and I understand this process, but I'll still watch people and be like, "Oof, good luck with that next go. I can't believe you're getting on that again." and then they fire it and I'm like "Fuck me. Okay, that's awesome."

Kris Hampton  34:00

Yeah, it happens to me too, for sure.

Nate Drolet  34:02

 Yeah. But so it's one of those things like you just need to you need to play around with like, maybe try things a little more than you think you should. You know, it can be taken to an extreme.

Kris Hampton  34:14

 Mm hmm. 

Nate Drolet  34:14

But I I honestly think most people aren't most regular weekend warriors aren't taking it to that level.

Kris Hampton  34:22

Yep, I totally 100% agree. And I think the two are different with sport climbing and with boulders. I think you have to learn that process both ways. You know, I had I had a moment on a boulder in Hueco, a boulder which shall not be named. We will never speak of this boulder again, actually.

Nate Drolet  34:43

So the Voldemort of boulders?

Kris Hampton  34:45

Yes. It was the only it's the only V11 still that I've ever touched, that I've ever tried. 

Nate Drolet  34:53

I don't know what rock climb this is

Kris Hampton  34:54

And I did the bottom of it in five minutes, something like that and just dropped off after the bottom, and was like, "Okay, I'm gonna learn the top of it now."

Nate Drolet  35:10

 Yeah.

Kris Hampton  35:11

 And someone was like, "What did you just do?" and I'm like, "What do you mean?" and they're like, "It's V3 from there." Like, no way. I pull on a climb to the top. Oh, yeah, it's V3 from there. 

Nate Drolet  35:24

Oh, man.

Kris Hampton  35:24

 And then I came back three days and couldn't repeat the bottom. So, in sport climbing mode, that would never happen to me. If I make it through hard moves, I'm gonna keep climbing, you know. But with a boulder, I thought, "Here is the process. Here's what I do. Alright, that move, I just unlocked that move. I'm dropping off, I'll learn the next move." Turns out there wasn't a next move. So cautionary tale, don't do that, especially on the boulder, which shall not be named. So you have to give yourself a chance is what this really comes down to.

Nate Drolet  36:03

Yeah

Kris Hampton  36:03

 Whether it's, you're a weekend warrior, you need to give your that yourself that chance to improve by putting more time in than you customarily are putting or than you're customarily putting into routes on your weekend trips, or just learning a new process.  Reevaluate and say, "Am I actually ready to redpoint right now or is there more I really actually have to learn or can I just go hard and get it done?"

Nate Drolet  36:35

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  36:35

You know, try those things. Play around with it. Give yourself a chance. 

Nate Drolet  36:39

Yeah. And don't be afraid to, you know, I don't think "fail" is a great word, but you know, it shouldn't be seen as failure. It should just be a test.

Kris Hampton  36:49

 Yep.

Nate Drolet  36:49

 Like if you go out and you're like, Okay,

Kris Hampton  36:53

Assessment, people don't..... like a measurement. People don't like tests.

Nate Drolet  36:57

Okay

Kris Hampton  36:57

People freak out about tests too.

Nate Drolet  36:59

This is an assessment,

Kris Hampton  37:01

A  measurement

Nate Drolet  37:01

Or a measurement, 

Kris Hampton  37:02

You are just measuring where you're at right now, 

Nate Drolet  37:03

If you want to go out and you want to go climb your first V8, and you go out and you try it like once and you're like, "I don't know, that's kind of hard." and you only have, you know, you have the whole weekend. Let's say you like, drove six hours to go boulder somewhere and you try it your first day and you are like, "I don't know, I could just go do a bunch of like, V6s, maybe get a V7 or two in." and that's what you spent your whole weekend doing instead, you don't know how it would have ended. 

Kris Hampton  37:27

Right

Nate Drolet  37:28

 So you know, give it a try. Like you don't know until you try.

Kris Hampton  37:33

Yep, absolutely. And right now we should try to break. 

Nate Drolet  37:38

All right. 

Kris Hampton  37:40

What's up everybody? Kris here, pardon the interruption. I'll keep this short and sweet. Since this podcast started taking off, and we've been growing it, you guys have been asking how you can help out. I've got three ways for you. Number one, you can become a patron. That just means you give a monthly donation to the podcast $1 and up, and you get something in return. And you can check out what those rewards are at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. Best of all, we'll keep it sponsor and commercial free for you. Number two, you can rate us and review us on iTunes. I know it's a pain in the ass to go to iTunes and do all that, but it really helps us out. At least that's what I'm told by the podcast powers that be. And number three, perhaps the easiest way and the best way to help us out is to share us on your social medias. Anytime you see us post up a new podcast, please share it with your friends, tag people who will really appreciate it, or who need to hear the advice that we're giving. Alright, thank you guys. And back to the show. 

Kris Hampton  38:45

All right. And we have returned with our number two reason, which is in no specific order. Number two barrier to improving in your outdoor climbing and this one's got.... we could talk about that we could do a whole podcast on this one 

Nate Drolet  39:08

Totally. 

Kris Hampton  39:10

But it's that you're not getting the right type of mileage. And this could be that you're not getting outside enough, that you're not getting...you're not trying enough hard routes. It could be that you're trying only hard routes and you're never building a base under you. 

Nate Drolet  39:32

That is the thing. 

Kris Hampton  39:33

Totally a thing. Could be that you're only climbing on steep jugs in the Madness Cave and you would be better off if you went and tried No Redemption or something that's bouldery and more vertical. There's all sorts of ways this could go. What do you think is the most common type of mileage mistake for people?

Nate Drolet  39:59

Oh that's a good....oooh, I've got it. It's that they stick to the same template.

Kris Hampton  40:09

Yeah

Nate Drolet  40:09

They say, "Okay, I go out and I do two warm ups. I maybe try another route, like something new. I go try my project. Maybe I'm tired and I end my day. Maybe I do something else afterwards." 

Kris Hampton  40:20

Yes. And then they do the same thing in the gym. 

Nate Drolet  40:23

They might do the same thing in the gym, but that is their outdoor template. They just repeat it ad nauseum. You know, something that I kind of stumbled across earlier in my climbing and it's funny when I ended up talking with Adam Taylor later about this, he was just like, "Oh, like, yeah, that's what I do, too." He's like, "I've never really thought about it as a process. It's just kind of what naturally happens." But like, one season, I was like, "I'm just gonna do what I'm psyched on." And originally, I was like, "Okay, I want to hit... I really want to climb 5.13 this year." So my initial goal was I wanted to climb my 50th 5.12 first. So and I think I did 23, 5.12s in a single month.

Kris Hampton  41:04

Nice.

Nate Drolet  41:04

 Or I did 22, because I ended up.... I mentioned earlier how I hurt my knee. I hurt my knee the last day of the month and I just had to do one more rock climb.

Kris Hampton  41:14

Heel hooking on a route in the Red? 

Nate Drolet  41:16

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  41:17

On a 12?

Nate Drolet  41:17

Yeah. Little Teacup. 

Kris Hampton  41:18

Damn. Yeah, I would never have guessed that one.

Nate Drolet  41:21

No, I was resting on it and I like just relaxed and yeah, turns out, you need a active stability in your knee and if your muscles are relaxed, you lose that. And you just have the passive stability, so that wasn't holding it and it just popped and went sideways and it was weird. And then I ended up climbing something a few days later. But so originally, I was like, "Okay, I just want to do a bunch of new easy like, single day, I'm trying to do some onsights of like some low end 5.12s". So I was like onsighting 11+/12- and then once that was going really well, I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna see what I can what I can do in a day." So I started doing like 12as, 12bs, 12cs in a day and I was like, "Okay, I want to start trying some things that might take me like two days or so." Did some 12ds, and then I ended up hitting 50. And then I was like, "Okay, well, let's see what will happen when I actually like put some time into things." And then when I would put like four and five days into routes, like I started climbing 5.13 after having already built a base. And then actually ended up going back to onsighting again. And it was great. It was a ton of fun, like just kind of switching through this rotation. 

Kris Hampton  42:40

Yep

Nate Drolet  42:41

Of like, "Okay, what can I do, you know, first try versus, like onsight versus flash versus the long process" until like, I finally had a big project and I wanted to climb a 13b., Did it and then I was like, "Okay, let's start back over." And that I you know, it doesn't have to be that template, but I think for a lot of people changing things up is really important. And it's not, it just doesn't happen.

Kris Hampton  43:05

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think especially for a weekend warrior, it's really easy to get trapped in the same template. You know, if you if you have the availability to go to the crag more often, especially if you live somewhat near crag where you're working as well, and you're doing half days, some days, full days, some days. It sort of lends itself to switching it up. But weekend warriors who have this very regimented schedule of "I get off work Friday at five, I get into my car at 5:07. I drive to the to the Red. I sleep in Miguel's parking lot. I get up at 8:03." You know, they have this very regimented thing that they do every weekend that really lends itself to "I'm going to do the same exact template over and over and over and over."

Nate Drolet  43:59

You know, we really could have really should have picked on Rifle climbers for this one. Because they do the exact same warm ups.

Kris Hampton  44:05

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  44:05

Exact same AM project, exact same PM project and they just do it until it's done. And that could be like seasons. 

Kris Hampton  44:13

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  44:14

And so yeah, I think when we talk about the wrong amount or the wrong type of mileage, I think not changing up the template of how you approach your day, that's a big mistake.

Kris Hampton  44:25

Yeah, I think so too. I think that's, I think that's pretty hugely important. And it's, it's sort of a catch all for a lot of the different types of mileage we found in this except for the kind of the person who ends up being the one trick pony. And, you know, even if you're onsighting versus projecting versus three day mini projects, whatever, if they're all in the Madness Cave, you're still not getting all the things you need, you know. And it's really easy to get trapped into that, because that's what you're good at. Things go down quickly. You know, you know what to expect when you get on them as far as how long it's gonna take me, how it should feel when I'm ready to redpoint. And it's a little different when you switch things up, but I think it's worth it. And traveling is really great. Mileage on the road, different areas, different grip types, different rock, different styles. But even if you can't travel, you know, if you're, if you're a mom who has three kids at home, and you can only get to the crag one day a week and you only have a two week vacation every year then by all means, stay at your home crag and get a lot done. But try to do some vertical stuff, try to do some steep stuff. Climb a slab for God's sakes occasionally. Maybe even go crack climbing. I think it's fun to switch it up and do all those things. 

Nate Drolet  46:06

Yeah, you know, every now and then I'll find it really nice looking crack where I'm like, "Ah, that's stunning. I want to climb that"

Kris Hampton  46:11

Haha no you do not

Nate Drolet  46:12

And then I climb the sport route next to it and I do a death choss traverse over to the anchors and then I free snake through the anchors a couple times.  And I'm like, "Oh, that was wonderful. Cool. Checked that box for the year. 2018?Trad Climber. Okay. "

Kris Hampton  46:27

Hahahahah. "Done and I am well traveled." 

Nate Drolet  46:31

But yeah, as far as one trick pony goes, I think this is one that's hard to recognize that you're doing it. Yeah, because, I mean, if you're even just climbing in one area, you know, like the Red

Kris Hampton  46:45

Just sport climbing versus bouldering.

Nate Drolet  46:47

 I mean, that alone, that's huge, just sport climbing versus bouldering. But it's easy to believe that, like, you know, we use the Red as an example a lot, but it's, you know, it's kind of amazing, so I'll do it. But most things are fairly endurance based.

Kris Hampton  47:03

 Mm hmm. 

Nate Drolet  47:04

And a lot of the routes that most people are like, "Whoa, that's really bouldery". Most people refer to Convicted as bouldery.

Kris Hampton  47:09

 Right.

Nate Drolet  47:09

 It's still like a.... what an 85 foot route?

Kris Hampton  47:12

Right.  And if you put that boulder on the ground, it wouldn't even be a thing.

Nate Drolet  47:17

No, it wouldn't be a thing for someone in like Mythos who's been climbing for like five months

Kris Hampton  47:22

Haha right.

Nate Drolet  47:22

 Like, but, but yes, it's very easy to be like, "Oh, yeah, no, I did some bouldery routes this year. I'm really changing things up." So be careful of becoming the one trick pony. Also you might just find you're really good at other things, or you really enjoy them. Or they just make you really good at what you want to do. I used to be horrible at crimping, like awful. That was my biggest weakness ever was crimping. And then eventually I started originally was because of finger injuries, but you know, they got better. But I still just kept avoiding crimps. And then eventually I started working back towards crimps again and I was like, "Oh, wait, like, I actually do fairly well on crimps snd I like, I like hard bouldering and I like routes with like hard moves on it, which tend to have crimps on them." 

Kris Hampton  48:13

Yeah

Nate Drolet  48:13

So this made everything better. But for the longest time, I was like, "Nah, I'm not a crimp guy like I like slopers and pinches and big power moves. But crimps aren't for me." But had I not like stepped out of that comfort zone and like, started trying boulders that were like, comically easy compared to like, by number grade. I mean, like four V grades lower than what I was normally climbing on, but it was hard, so it was like, I was like, "Okay, I'll just do this."

Kris Hampton  48:41

Yeah

Nate Drolet  48:42

But it's made everything else so much more fun since. 

Kris Hampton  48:44

Mm hmm. And then Angie Payne came into the Machine Shop and crushed all your crimp projects. 

Nate Drolet  48:49

I know.

Kris Hampton  48:49

And now you're like, "I don't climb crimps anymore."

Nate Drolet  48:51

 She hurt my feelings. 

Kris Hampton  48:52

Haha

Nate Drolet  48:54

She's not invited back. It's not my house, but she's not invited.

Kris Hampton  48:57

Hahaha. Yeah, yeah, I think I think that's really important just to diversify. You know, I, I almost said, "Give yourself a chance" because it goes back to that as well. Like, don't shut yourself out just because you, you think that you should only be climbing one type of thing.

Nate Drolet  49:17

Yeah. And you know, just because one method worked for someone else, ot might not work for you. Like there are some people who they can put their head down and go for like a four year project and they get it done. That's great. Not many people can do that? And same way, like some people can just climb a ton of volume and they get better. It doesn't seem doesn't really work for most people.

Kris Hampton  49:38

Right

Nate Drolet  49:38

You need to find what works well for you and the only way you can is by trying a lot of things.

Kris Hampton  49:43

Yep, absolutely. And I'll add this into because I've had some clients and worked with some people who have the availability to get more mileage, and just don't because it's not great climbing. If you're someone who isn't able to get to great climbing very often, but you do have these little scraggly cliffs near your house, go to those little scraggly cliffs. I mean, I spent so much time climbing on weird man made limestone walls when I was learning and I feel like my footwork became so much better because of it standing on these little slippery limestone edges. I would go to the Red and all of a sudden every foothold is a jug you know. But I that never would have happened had I only stayed in the gym and climbed in the Red.  So you know, you'll find there will there will be things about those little scraggly cliffs that help you improve.

Nate Drolet  50:46

Yeah, and I mean, like, what maybe a scraggly cliff to you might be world class to the English

Kris Hampton  50:57

Hahahaha. Oh, man, sorry, all of our UK listeners. He didn't mean that.

Nate Drolet  51:01

The truth hurts. I mean, but for real, like, something that I admire the English for, like the people in the UK like, they do so much with so little. Like some some of their like bouldering cliffline stuff and you are like "Wow, that looks awful" and they're like, "Yeah, we have like 47 problems on this like, I don't know, the seven meter wide cliff"

Kris Hampton  51:24

"And if we can't climb there, we're climbing in our cellars."

Nate Drolet  51:27

Exactly. "Yeah, it's sticky damp out right now. It's good. We're gonna go for it." But yeah, like they they just like get after it with like, some of the most garbage looking rock. Some of it looks great, guys. You know, it's wonderful. I'd love to visit someday. But some of it like I'm just like, "Wow, that looks terrible. But like you were fucking psycehd and that is awesome."

Kris Hampton  51:49

Yeah, totally. 

Nate Drolet  51:51

And they get after and like, you know, I love like Jerry Moffatt's book and I read Ben Moon's book as well, like, and like, the stuff they talked about, they're like, "Oh, yeah, I would like climb up this and down this and like, I would practice shaking out on this." It's just like, the things that they did, few people in the States would ever repeat

Kris Hampton  52:08

Right

Nate Drolet  52:09

Like as a form of training. Because they're just like, "No, like, why would I climb on that? That looks awful. " But like, you know, for them, they were like, "Okay, I need the mileage." And for a lot of people, you know, and I think you really hit it on this, like, a lot of people would rather go train in a really nice cushy gym that's like, AC controlled and has a Moon Board and a Tension Board and all these things. And, you know, it's, it's wonderful. But if you don't spend time outside, you don't have that currency. Like you don't, you know, you have to know how to grab limestone, you need to know how to smear on bad holds, you know. Climbing outside, in and of itself, is a skill and if you aren't practiced in it like you're going to have trouble.

Kris Hampton  52:55

 Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  52:55

So it's good. Like, it's good to get out and yeah, spend some time on English type rock.

Kris Hampton  53:05

Totally. And you know, you just brought up conditions too. And that's something maybe we should have talked about in not giving yourself a chance or maybe it should have just been its own topic here. We should have done "Top 10 roadblocks to outdoor improvement." 

Nate Drolet  53:18

All still equal. 

Kris Hampton  53:19

But paying so much attention to the conditions is just a little bit asinine. For most climbers, if you're unless you're like, you're going out to try and climb on the absolute hardest thing you'll ever do in your life, then go try it even though the conditions aren't prime. I spent a lot of summers climbing in the Red. I'm not saying that smart. But but I got a lot of mileage in so that I could spend time in the good conditions, trying hard things. And I've seen a lot of people send things in less than prime conditions. It can happen, you know, but if you don't give yourself a chance, if you if you skip going outside because the conditions aren't perfect, then you can't do it.

Nate Drolet  54:14

So yeah, and not to mention, weather changes, like forecasts are terrible.

Kris Hampton  54:21

Forecasts are horrible. 

Nate Drolet  54:23

There's so many times where I've gone out from like walking through fog, like "Oh, God, this is awful. Why am I even doing this?" and then you get there and everything like dries up and some wind kicks up and you're just like, "Ah, sticky damp.They were right! The English were on to something!"

Kris Hampton  54:38

The English knew about it all this time.

Nate Drolet  54:40

Yeah, yeah. One of the best examples was I went climbing in Horse Pens and this was maybe, proportionately to how strong I was, the best day of bouldering I've ever had. It's top three for sure. But um, went down to Horse Pens and it was like in a cloud when I pulled up there. I was just like, "Oh man". It's like a two hour drive or two and a half hour drive to get there, so I sat my car for a while, and it got really windy and really dry and I could not fall. Like, I literally like if.... I wish I knew more things to do that day. 

Kris Hampton  55:16

Right.

Nate Drolet  55:17

Like, I think I had climbed two V9s ever and that day, I did something like I did a new V9, like three or four V8s and like five or six V7s, all new to me. It was one of the things like I just didn't know new things to do. Like, it was so perfect. But it was the kind of thing when you when I pulled up in the morning, I was like, "This is awful. Like, why am I here?".  I can't believe.... like the only reason I even stayed was because I had to, like I drove two and a half hours to get there. 

Kris Hampton  55:43

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  55:45

But yeah, then it was like cheating all day.

Kris Hampton  55:47

Yep totally. I had my best day bouldering in the gym yesterday, and it's all downhill from there. 

Nate Drolet  55:53

Yeah. You know, because we have that AC controlled. That's pretty bougie

Kris Hampton  55:57

Haha. It is. It really is. Alright, our number one, but not in the order. Top five barriers to outdoor improvement. Is this one yours? 

Nate Drolet  56:14

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  56:14

It's catchy.

Nate Drolet  56:15

Oh, thank you

Kris Hampton  56:16

So I think you should just say it.

Nate Drolet  56:17

It's having A to Z goals, but not having A to B goals.

Kris Hampton  56:22

And at first, I was like, "There's no such thing as 12Z. You don't know what you are talking about." But

Nate Drolet  56:28

I'm on another level.

Kris Hampton  56:28

Ha. But totally, I think it's really easy. And we talked about this, that might have been the other podcast we recorded tonight. But we talked about having these big goals, but not really having a path to get there, not understanding that what you do every day matters. And setting that really far away goal can be a really easy way to end up just going in circles and not really knowing where you're headed.

Nate Drolet  57:05

Yeah. No, and it can it can be intimidating. You know, I love big goals. I think they're awesome. Like, I think they're important. But you need to have the steps along the way. You know, you can't just say, "Oh, I want to climb 5.15" It's like okay, well, you know, it's like if I say, "A to Z goal", so A would be like, "Today I climb, you know, this grade", and then Z would be "I want to climb that grade over there." Maybe there's like four letter grades between here and there. It's like, okay, like, A to B, is like, what is step one? If A to Z is...if there are 25 steps between here and there, like, what is your step one? Like what can I do today? What can I do tomorrow? What can I do for the next month? 

Kris Hampton  57:51

Yep

Nate Drolet  57:51

That will bring me one step closer. And I think this is the one this is one of the things that people miss out on when they're making their goals is that they have this big, audacious goal. And it's wonderful and it's great. And it's like, probably realistic for most people like what they want to do, but they just haven't laid out the individual steps yet. Because it's not as fun. Like it's also it's just not as cool to be like, "Okay, I'm going to make this tiny little goal. Like I'm going to do I want to climb. I want to climb 14c. Let me do this 13b that is really hard for me."

Kris Hampton  58:23

Yeah

Nate Drolet  58:24

Like that's not cool. 

Kris Hampton  58:25

Yep. Yeah, it's funny. I mean, you know, when I was working on Transworld ot teally starting to think about Transworld, I worked on Take That Katie Brown.

Nate Drolet  58:40

That was the 13b I was thinking of actually.

Kris Hampton  58:43

Yeah. It has to be. Hahaha.

Nate Drolet  58:45

Yeah. I still don't think it goes.

Kris Hampton  58:48

And it's funny because it's, that's now more and more becoming my style of climbing. I've gotten better and better at that style, which at the time was very, very difficult for me. Felt absurdly hard for the grade. But now, I'm starting to think about,oh, if I'm going.... the hardest thing I'm going to climb should have some similar type moves, you know, where I'm going really big and having to keep tension. And so I think you...I mean, for me that really hits home. That in order to climb this big grade, you're gonna have to climb something that early on feels absurdly difficult for the grade.

Nate Drolet  59:36

Yeah, you know, and it's all about just what makes you better. And that's, that can be there can be a lot of forms for that. It could be.... like before I did Zookeeper last fall, I had a goal of I wanted to repeat what I've referred to as "Cerberus" because I needed to log something on 8a, but it's three hard routes at Purgatory. 

Kris Hampton  1:00:03

Hmm, yeah

Nate Drolet  1:00:04

And I've never actually been one to go back and repeat routes. It's something that like, I see a lot of value in. I had like, warm up and cool down circuits, but I would never make a day of, "Okay, I'm gonna go out and try and do this." But in my mind, I was like, "Okay, like, I'm gonna go out, and I want to repeat these three routes in a day. And if I can do that, like, I'm fit enough. " Because, frankly, they're all longer than Zookeeper, which is wonderful. 

Kris Hampton  1:00:31

Haha

Nate Drolet  1:00:31

But this was something that, you know, it's like third, basically three 13bs, more or less, like for a 14a route. Like there's, you know, they don't really add up, but in my mind, like, I was "Okay, if I do this, I'm good." And so I ended up doing it and it was such a boost for me to and, you know, it only took one extra day out of my season. And it.... I think I ended up....that was the first time I ever climbed Dracula too. But, uh, yeah, I had just never gotten back to that one. But I was like, "Okay, this is the goal", added that and this was like this one little tiny step on the process. 

Kris Hampton  1:01:07

Right. 

Nate Drolet  1:01:08

But for me, it ended up being huge, because I actually like was very surprised it even happened. By the end of the day, I was like, "Oh, maybe I am fit." Like, because I hadn't been sport climbing, I just been training doing campus punks all summer. 

Kris Hampton  1:01:20

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  1:01:20

Because that's all I had access to was a campus board, and weights. So I was just foot-on paddling with a campus board. So this was like, "Oh, okay. I can sport climb" like, we're in it to win it at this point. 

Kris Hampton  1:01:34

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  1:01:34

And so adding this little goal, instead of going straight to trying the project, I think that for me was monumental in building momentum.

Kris Hampton  1:01:44

Totally. And I think you could, I think it's really important to be able to see your season that way. Like, if the big goal is.... whatever it is, if your big goal is 12a, at the beginning of your season, going out and jumping right on 12a sounds really enticing. It sounds like it's the best way to get there, but it may not be. And I think we can, as much as I don't like to pull directly from other sports all the time, we can look at almost every other competitive sport, and see how they structure their competition season. And swimmers, boxers, 

Nate Drolet  1:02:25

Runners

Kris Hampton  1:02:26

Runners, all sorts of athletes will start their season not expecting to be in top form. And, you know, going to the races, going to the fights that that are going to help them prepare for the big races later on, or the big title fights later on. You know, it's it just makes sense when you think about it. But it's really easy to get trapped in the logic of "I can't climb 12a unless I try 12a"

Nate Drolet  1:03:02

Totally

Kris Hampton  1:03:02

But maybe that just comes a little bit later.

Nate Drolet  1:03:04

Yeah. No, I remember like, I mean, that was something with, like, with running, you know, you have to keep it in, you have to just keep it proportional to what it was like. So, you know, if I go out and my first race of the season, it's like a preseason race, and I run a 5k in like 17 minutes. I'm like, "Oh, last year, I ran it in like 17:20 on this race." Maybe I ran faster at the very end of the season when I was at my prime, but it's like, "Oh, I'm 20 seconds faster than I was at the same point." That's huge. Like, but if I compared it to my best, I would have been like, "Oh, this was terrible. Like, you know, I'm an awful runner." I almost said rock climber. But it's that same thing with climbing. Like, if you go out and day one you expect to be better than your your best ever. Like, you know, sometimes that happens, like especially when you're new to climbing or you're new to like, it's your only your second season ever of sport climbing. Like every day, you're pretty much better.

Kris Hampton  1:04:01

 Right

Nate Drolet  1:04:01

But once you've been doing it for a while, you know, you have to keep things in check and you need to keep things in perspective.

Kris Hampton  1:04:09

Yeah, and I think that's something a lot of the guys here do really well. In that they they have this circuit that they've dialed in, you know, like "These are the routes on the Rodeo Wave that I do. And last season it took me two days to repeat Cow Reggae and three days to repeat Stetson or whatever. And then this season it took me one day to repeat Cow Reggae and then I repeated Stetson the next day. So now Atomic...or Atomic Cow is a for sure thing this season." You know and then at the upper levels of that is BJ, who's got this circuit of every route on the wall at this point and can repeat them pretty much anytime he wants to. But he's still goes back and judges how his fitness is coming along by "How do these routes feel when I do them back to back to back?", you know. So I think it's really important to have that and like you said it, it just boosts you for later in the season. And if you don't do that, you don't have that boost, you're going into your big project unsure, it's a really easy way to stunt your growth out there.

Nate Drolet  1:05:27

Yeah, man and confidence is, it can't be overstated, as far as I'm concerned.

Kris Hampton  1:05:33

Totally. I don't care how much #science you've got behind your training. If you aren't going in confident, and sure that you can move well and believing that you can send, it just doesn't matter. 

Nate Drolet  1:05:48

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  1:05:50

So how about you go back through our top five barriers to improving outside?

Nate Drolet  1:05:58

Alright, so number five, bad partners. Number four, speed bumps that turn into sinkholes. Number three, you didn't give yourself a chance.

Kris Hampton  1:06:11

You gotta give yourself a chance.

Nate Drolet  1:06:13

 Number two, the wrong amount of outdoor mileage. And finally, actually, I guess I don't shouldn't say finally. Really these are all number one just in a different order. But number one, having A to Z goals but not having the intermittent A to B goals.

Kris Hampton  1:06:31

Totally. Yep, super important. So if you've been hitting a roadblock, if you've been plateauing outside, take a look at some of these things. They might be the the thing that you need to you know, make that breakthrough this season. And until then, you know where we're at. We are at powercompanyclimbing.com. If you need to break through a barrier indoors too, if your training seasons have sucked lately, we've got training plans. Those are definitely the top five ways to break through your plateau. Forget about all these things we just talked about. Go buy a training plan. Powercompanyclimbing.com You should also follow us on the Facebooks and the Instagrams and the Pinterest @PowerCompanyClimbing. You're @cruxpadwell on the Instagrams.

Nate Drolet  1:06:54

Yes.

Kris Hampton  1:07:24

Not anymore. Now it's just @NateDrolet, no spaces. I know, it threw me too. And you can look for us on the Twitters. I don't believe Crux Padwell is there either but I know that I'm not there. Because we don't tweet, we scream like eagles.