Episode 109-113: Board Meetings | Top 5 Redpoint Pitfalls with Dru Mack
For these Board Meetings, Nate and I sit down with our good friend Dru Mack to discuss something that we are all far too well versed in: The 5 most common redpoint pitfalls that we see climbers get trapped in. It’s a really complicated process, so it’s very easy to lose perspective.
We’re breaking this into 5 episodes because it was a 2.5 hour conversation, and no matter how fun it was, nobody has 2.5 hours to listen straight through.
To recap:
5. Bad timing - getting into redpoint attempts too early or too late.
4. Getting stuck in bad beta.
3. Making the wrong links or letting links expire.
2. Spending too much time on one route or projecting in general.
1. Projecting in the wrong range.
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
EPISODE 109:
Kris Hampton 00:00
Hey everybody, Kris here. Today's episode is a Board Meeting, but we did have a special guest sit in with us: Dru Mack, who just yesterday climbed his hardest route to date with Pure Imagination in the Red River Gorge. So big congrats Dru. So proud of you. We're going to split this up into five episodes that we'll release throughout the week, because this ended up being a two and a half hour, really fun conversation with Dru. And if your name happens to be Ty or Brennan and you were in Lander this summer, there might be a little special Easter egg shout out at the end of the podcast for you. Let's get into it.
Kris Hampton 01:17
What's up everybody, I'm your host, Kris Hampton.
Nate Drolet 01:20
I'm Nate Drolet.
Dru Mack 01:21
And I'm Dru Mack.
Kris Hampton 01:24
And together we formed the Three Musketeers because that was the first trio of things I could think of. I wasn't prepared for this one.
Dru Mack 01:31
Migos, bro Migos.
Kris Hampton 01:32
Migos? Is Migos a trio?
Dru Mack 01:34
Three Migos
Kris Hampton 01:35
Oh! A-migos. Three Amigos. Amigos, Dru not Migos haha.
Dru Mack 01:39
Walk it like I talk it.
Kris Hampton 01:40
Migos is something different and I don't even know what Migos is because I'm too old school for that.
Dru Mack 01:44
Haha
Nate Drolet 01:44
I just know I'm supposed to hate it. Haha
Kris Hampton 01:47
And I do. Never heard it but I hate it. What is Migos? You know. Tell me
Dru Mack 01:53
Yeah it is a rap group from Atlanta.
Kris Hampton 01:56
How many people?
Dru Mack 01:57
Three.
Kris Hampton 01:57
Oh well, shit. You should have just went with it.
Dru Mack 02:01
That's exactly why I said it!
Kris Hampton 02:02
Haha you did not.
Nate Drolet 02:03
Confidence Dru.
Dru Mack 02:04
That's exactly why I said it.
Kris Hampton 02:05
Did you say "Migos" or "Amigos"?
Dru Mack 02:07
No, I said, "Migos".
Kris Hampton 02:09
So you didn't say "Amigos"?
Dru Mack 02:11
No. Haha because it's the...it's a rap reference. I figured you would get it.
Kris Hampton 02:15
Have you ever heard of Three Amigos?
Dru Mack 02:17
Yes.
Kris Hampton 02:18
Okay, so you do know that reference too.
Dru Mack 02:20
Of course. That's what the Migos took their name from I assume.
Kris Hampton 02:22
Dru is worse at references than Nate is.
Nate Drolet 02:25
Yeah, that's pretty bad.
Dru Mack 02:26
I'm sure everybody got that.
Kris Hampton 02:29
Hahaha
Dru Mack 02:30
That's a Millennial.
Kris Hampton 02:32
Are you saying only Millennials listen to my podcast? Because I know there's a lot of old people
Dru Mack 02:36
No I'm saying only Millennials listen to Migos.....Ignore that.
Kris Hampton 02:42
Maybe I'll see if Migos will put this on their next album.
Dru Mack 02:44
We'll just pass
Kris Hampton 02:45
The Three Migos.
Dru Mack 02:46
We're not talking about this.
Kris Hampton 02:53
Hahaha. All right. All right. All right. That's enough.
Nate Drolet 02:56
I think we're doing a podcast.
Kris Hampton 02:57
We're in podcast number two here with Dru Mack, our special guest for this Board Meeting. You might be..have we had another special guest on a Board Meeting, like with the two of us
Nate Drolet 03:06
Edwin
Kris Hampton 03:07
But he was just he was just with me.
Nate Drolet 03:09
I know.
Kris Hampton 03:09
He just took your place.
Nate Drolet 03:09
I was like, a little sad that that was still called a Board Meeting.
Kris Hampton 03:11
Yeah. It was a guest Board Meeting.
Nate Drolet 03:13
It was. Um, no... other than the two coaches. Two other guys, Paul and Blake.
Kris Hampton 03:19
Yeah. I don't think so. You might be our first outside guest at a full Board Meeting.
Dru Mack 03:24
Awesome. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Kris Hampton 03:26
Yeah. You don't have to be so proper Dru. Board Meetings are a little a little off the cuff. They're not so
Nate Drolet 03:34
They are the reason we get the "explicit" rating.
Kris Hampton 03:37
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 03:38
Mostly me.
Kris Hampton 03:40
So we're actually talking today about a topic that Dru knows quite a bit about. And the three of us sat here coming up with our top five most common and we argued quite a bit about the order that these five were going to be in, so I don't even know if they are in order. Nate might think they are in order. I think they're in a wack order. I don't know what Dru thinks. But we're gonna be talking about the five most common redpointing pitfalls.
Dru Mack 04:15
Why'd you say this is something I know really well though?
Dru Mack 04:17
Because you are a redpointer.
Dru Mack 04:19
Haha yeah.
Kris Hampton 04:20
You're good at this dude. You're really good at this. I don't know if you know the pitfalls though, because you're really good at this. Except for there was that Omaha Beach incident.
Dru Mack 04:28
Whoops.
Kris Hampton 04:28
Yeah, so so maybe you do know some of the pitfalls
Dru Mack 04:31
I definitely do.
Kris Hampton 04:35
Nate, when I said this, you said, "Can we make that a pun?" Did you come up with a pun?
Nate Drolet 04:43
Um...redpoint pitfalls? No, I haven't yet. I was even trying to think of it as you were saying it there. There's something there. I feel like this is a missed opportunity.
Kris Hampton 04:49
You can't say redpointing and falls without feeling like there should be a pun. So if any of you guys know a pun, hit us up on the Instagrams.
Nate Drolet 04:57
Yeah, or good dad jokes. Both are accepted.
Kris Hampton 05:00
Tells a dad joke. You know good dad jokes.
Nate Drolet 05:00
Um
Nate Drolet 05:01
I can't believe you're blanking.
Nate Drolet 05:07
You know I used to work at a calendar factory. But they let me go when I took too many days off.
Kris Hampton 05:16
Hahaha.
Nate Drolet 05:16
Yeah, you know how to tell when a joke is becoming a dad joke?
Kris Hampton 05:20
No
Nate Drolet 05:20
It's whenever the punch line is apparent.
Dru Mack 05:26
Hahaha
Kris Hampton 05:26
Haha
Nate Drolet 05:26
You know the worst thing about this too is I've got a couple friends who make fun of me for loving dad jokes and I guess that makes me a faux pas.
Kris Hampton 05:34
Oh my god. It never ends.
Dru Mack 05:38
Awful. So awful.
Nate Drolet 05:40
Yeah. You want to hear a joke about
Kris Hampton 05:41
That's your biggest pitfall
Kris Hampton 05:42
Are you going to tell those sometime though Dru?
Dru Mack 05:44
Probably will. I'm writing them down now.
Dru Mack 05:46
Good. What's your pizza joke, bro?
Nate Drolet 05:50
Ahh...nevermind, it probably would have been too cheesy for you anyways.
Dru Mack 05:52
Oh yeah.
Kris Hampton 05:53
Haha. Yeah. All right. Alright. I'm done with these.
Nate Drolet 05:56
No let's
Dru Mack 05:57
Classic
Nate Drolet 05:58
Now that everyone's groaned for the last like 30 straight seconds.
Kris Hampton 06:01
Yeah. Alright, so Nate, why don't you tell us what number five is in our top five list of redpoint pitfalls.
Nate Drolet 06:11
So common redpoint pitfalls. Number one is timing your redpoints incorrectly. So this is either starting to try and send a route too early, or waiting way too long to try and send a rock climb.
Kris Hampton 06:25
Which happens to you most often Dru?
Dru Mack 06:27
Um, I think I think it bounces back and forth. Uh, but I think a lot more times I try...I don't think I'm ready to send her out and I ended up kind of taking a little bit more time. sussing out the moves and making good links instead of sometimes you just got it, rip it, just give it a whirl and see where you're at. And then you can make better judgments of "Am I ready to redpoint or do I need to kind of spend a little bit more time on this?"
Kris Hampton 07:01
Yeah, I think that's a really important way to gauge it, that a lot of people are missing. Like the minute they make that first rip it attempt.
Dru Mack 07:09
Yeah,
Kris Hampton 07:09
Like try to do it, then the next attempt is try to do it, the next attempt to try to do it and they just stay stuck in that zone instead of reassessing via that first attempt and realizing, "Oh, maybe I'm a little too soon with this"
Dru Mack 07:25
Of course.
Kris Hampton 07:27
Your thoughts on this Nate?
Nate Drolet 07:28
Yeah, no, I do... I tend to have the same issue of it's really easy to keep pushing it off till later, because you can keep sussing things out, getting better beta, taking your time. It's very comfortable.
Dru Mack 07:40
Making the moves easier.
Nate Drolet 07:42
Yeah, you know, and it's one of those things to where you can make it to where you're never uncomfortable by doing that. Like you never have to make really that hard links, like everything's kind of guaranteed until one day you're like, "Well, you know, it's like, Oh, I sent it on my first redpoint go" kind of thing. Like, well, yeah, it was that was eighty goes later.
Kris Hampton 08:00
I say this about Annalissa all the time, actually, that she, she just needs to try harder. She just flipped me off.
Nate Drolet 08:07
Haha.
Kris Hampton 08:07
You can't flip me off. We're married now. Married people don't do that.
Dru Mack 08:11
She's never flipped me off.
Kris Hampton 08:13
Haha. She likes you way better than she likes me, dude trust me. But I feel like there are a lot of times where she'll keep sussing it out until there's no chance of her falling.
Nate Drolet 08:24
Yes
Kris Hampton 08:25
Not gonna happen.
Dru Mack 08:25
Yeah, I have good friends like that, too.
Nate Drolet 08:27
And it's an easy trap to fall into
Kris Hampton 08:29
It totally is
Nate Drolet 08:29
I feel like, especially when I'm first starting a season off or if I haven't sport climbed in a while, that's my go to. I feel like for me, it's very much a sign that I am confident and like in the mode of when I'm willing to like, give something a rip when I'm not 100% confident. When I'm like, "Okay, like, I've got enough pieces, like, let's just pull on and give it hell and see what happens", like, for me, that takes like, I can tell I'm in like, like a savvy of redpoint mode, like in being in sport climbing mode when I can do that and like, pull it off.
Kris Hampton 09:02
Do you think there are times where or is there a limit to the number of times that you will say, "Let's see what happens."
Nate Drolet 09:12
Haha. I live my life by those words.
Dru Mack 09:16
Haha
Kris Hampton 09:17
Because redpoint is sort of about knowing what's going to happen, right?
Nate Drolet 09:21
Yes. Um, I think it's a happy medium. I like I really like the idea of checking in every now and then, of like, you know, let's say if it is like a fairly long term project, it's very easy to get stuck in that process of like, "Oh I'm just gonna bolt to bolt up at a few times today, maybe do a few links." and, you know, it's a set deal. But, you know, I think every now and then it's good to be like, "Okay, I'm just gonna like, give it a rip, see what happens and go from there." Because that's when you also start to realize like, "Oh, I can't do that move that powerfully, on point that way or like that clips not going to happen like that."
Dru Mack 09:56
Exactly.
Nate Drolet 09:56
So it kind of lets you check back in to see what's happening.
Kris Hampton 10:00
Yeah, you talked a little bit about that, when we were kind of prepping beforehand Dru, about things changing on the fly.
Dru Mack 10:08
Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, like, going bolt to bolt is significantly different than, you know, when you're pumped coming from the ground. And when you're pumped, like, you might, you know, another sequence might be easier, or a clip might be easier from say, a higher hold or you may need to skip a clip or things like that. You know, things change when you're pumped and so, if you're just continually going bolt to bolt or making small links, then, you know, you're not really learning as much as you could.
Kris Hampton 10:42
Yeah, totally. And I think, I think the the idea of that you started this off with Dru, of letting it rip and then asking, "Was it time or not?" is really, really important.
Dru Mack 10:57
Yeah,
Kris Hampton 10:57
And I think people learn that, what you just talked about, by letting it rip. I see a lot of people who, especially when they first come to the Red or a place that's really, you know, sustained, not terribly hard climbing. They'll come to those areas, go up something bolt to bolt, and then just be like, "Oh, I'm sending that next go. No doubt."
Nate Drolet 11:19
"I did all the moves easily."
Dru Mack 11:20
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 11:21
And then they find that by the time they get to the fifth bolt on the redpoint attempt, that they weren't nearly ready yet.
Dru Mack 11:28
Yeah
Kris Hampton 11:28
You know, and then a lot of people fall into the trap of just banging their head against the wall and advancing it two moves at a time over the next eight months, so
Dru Mack 11:40
That's a big pitfall, yeah, for sure.
Nate Drolet 11:42
I guess let's talk about like, what, why is it that we're trying to avoid this? Like, why, why is it a bad thing to wait too, wait a long time because like, you know, hell, if I can just guarantee it, what's wrong with that? Or, you know, what's wrong with trying to redpoint early?
Kris Hampton 11:59
Um, well, some of those, if I'm not careful, I'm going to jump into our number two here, so I'm not going to do that. But I think that jumping in too early, you don't learn the skills of sussing out beta, trying new beta. You don't learn the skills of breaking a route down into its pieces. And those are things you're going to need to know when you get into harder and harder grades, so you might as well learn the skills that are required of, of the sends of where you're at at the moment, so that you can apply them later on. The danger of going too late is that you never have to try really, really hard, you know, and part of the fun and the excitement and the draw of rock climbing for me, is that moment, when you're going really hard. You're in the Red and you're just latching holds and continuing to move, when you when you thought you were going to fall five or six moves ago, you know.
Dru Mack 13:07
That fight, that like deeper dig is something that like you miss, if you're just like, making everything easier and that, like dig is what really, I think takes you further as well,
Nate Drolet 13:22
Totally.
Kris Hampton 13:23
And I think the reason you need that dig, is because if you ever want to climb your absolute hardest potential, that's going to be a combination of doing everything perfectly, having all the right tactics leading up to it, and then being able to dig as deep as you can on the hardest moves you can do. So it's a component, you have to have to climb your hardest.
Nate Drolet 13:45
Totally, I completely agree. Only thing I would add to it, as well is just a time factor. You know
Kris Hampton 13:51
Yeah, totally.
Nate Drolet 13:52
If you can get something in five days done in five days versus fifteen.
Dru Mack 13:56
Efficency
Nate Drolet 13:57
Yeah, you can do three rock climbs instead of just the one.
Kris Hampton 14:00
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 14:01
So I think that's really important.
Kris Hampton 14:02
And especially early on, that's really important to your climbing. You know, there are times when, when just miring into a long term project is a good idea. But particularly early on in your climbing, that's probably not a great idea.
Nate Drolet 14:20
No, totally. So are there any big things that people should keep in mind with this? Either like red flags, red flags to avoid, like, what are some telltale signs for "I'm going in too early or too late" or what are some good, like rules of thumb?
Kris Hampton 14:38
I think number one is have an expectation for... maybe not an expectation.... have an intention for that attempt. And if you were way off the mark, like when you decide to start redpointing if you think, "Oh, this is what I'm going to do. This is my intention." and then you just go ahead and send instead of, "I think I'm gonna fall around the fifth bolt", or you think you're gonna send but you fall around the fifth bolt, so your intention is way off. You had no idea what was going to happen. Then there are probably some issues with the way you see your redpointing, so you should take a step back and look at it a little differently.
Nate Drolet 15:21
Totally. And you got to be honest with yourself with that too. Like, you know, you can only have so many foot slips or "Ah, I just bumbled one thing but otherwise, I would have made it six bolts higher" kind of thing. You know, you need to be honest with yourself with how things are really going. Dru, are there any like red flags you can think of, when either that you can see in yourself from the past or that you've seen out at the crag when maybe people are trying to pull the trigger a little too early?
Dru Mack 15:49
Um, yeah, I'd say that kind of comes into that intentions thing where, you know, I've felt... I've seen people who, you know, pretty confident. That happens in the Red a lot, you know, where you go bolt to bolt, you feel comfortable, you haven't really, really sussed like how things are gonna feel or really built the fitness to do things and, and, you know, you fall fall low. And, and I think that's also you know, like that, that can be hard mentally, mentally to like, have kind of this, this thought in your head of "This is how this is gonna go" and then it happens drastically different. You know, and that can be really frustrating to even follow through on a route like that.
Kris Hampton 16:39
Yeah, I see a lot of people bail in that situation.
Dru Mack 16:41
Yeah, yeah. It's super frustrating if you have some kind of expectation or intention and you're far off from that. And so just, you know, keeping the expectations where they should be in.
Kris Hampton 16:52
Yeah. And I think if that happens, that's a good time to readjust and say, "Okay, I didn't quite know what I was getting into here."
Dru Mack 16:59
Yeah exactly.
Kris Hampton 16:59
"Let me readjust, so I can come up with better goals in the future."
Dru Mack 17:04
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 17:05
So what are some good examples of good intentions?
Kris Hampton 17:11
I mean, I think we've talked about this before, but I would set like little mini goals for each attempt on the route. And and when you're ready to redpoint, you know, make that the intention. Don't give yourself this, this is totally not answering your question. It's sort of answering it backwards, coming through the other side, but don't give yourself the out when something goes wrong, where you're, where you start the intention, or the the attempt with, "I'm just going to see what happens." If it's a redpoint attempt, then your intention is to redpoint. And if you fall really low or nowhere close to the redpoint on a pumpy route, then you need to readjust. And I think that's a really common problem, just letting yourself off the hook.
Dru Mack 18:06
Totally.
Kris Hampton 18:06
You mentioned that with being honest with yourself as well.
Nate Drolet 18:08
For sure.
Kris Hampton 18:10
I don't even remember what your original question was. I was just talking there.
Nate Drolet 18:13
It was, like, what are good intentions? Like, for instance, when I'm in redpoint mode on something, my intention, like, I voice this to my belayer so that, like, I have someone to keep me honest. Like the thing I pretty much say every time before I pull off the ground is "I'm going to give it hell and if I fall, I'm gonna fall going for it."
Kris Hampton 18:30
Yep. Fall up
Nate Drolet 18:31
And for me, it's like, even if I don't redpoint it's like, "Okay, like, did I do that?" Because if I do that, and like I give it everything I have, and I fall going for it, then it's like, "Cool. Chances, like my chances of redpoint have just gone through the roof."
Kris Hampton 18:44
Right
Nate Drolet 18:45
Like, and that's for me personally, because it's just the things I need to work on.
Kris Hampton 18:48
Yeah and fact, is if you if you blow that, if you don't fall going up, then you just weren't ready for redpointing to begin with. If you give yourself a reason to say take or to just drop off without trying, then you weren't ready to redpoint, so,
Dru Mack 19:08
Yeah, I always try to just handle the things that I can personally handle.
Nate Drolet 19:12
Totally.
Dru Mack 19:13
So that, you know, there's only... to me, my mantra that I say to as a belayer and I it say to myself is "Try hard and have fun." And you know, like whether you're about to redpoint something or you're totally going to just be nowhere near doing it, like if you control the things that you can control, then, you know, then that's gonna help you become a better rock climber.
Nate Drolet 19:39
Totally.
Dru Mack 19:40
Yep.
Nate Drolet 19:41
Do you think redpoint is really fun though?
Kris Hampton 19:44
I think it's really fun.
Nate Drolet 19:45
Hmm, like type two, or type one?
Dru Mack 19:48
Clipping chains is great.
Kris Hampton 19:49
I don't know what the types are.
Nate Drolet 19:50
Type one is like you're having fun in the moment. Type Two is like it's fun afterwards in memory. Like to me redpoint is like
Kris Hampton 19:56
It's definitely more fun afterwards. And not just after the redpoint, but after you come down off the route because on the route it's really easy to get frustrated during a redpoint attempt.
Nate Drolet 20:08
Yeah, it's like nervewracking
Kris Hampton 20:09
But when you can talk about all the little minutia of what you learned and what you still need to do and how you need to build yourself to get to that point, that's really fun for me.
Nate Drolet 20:20
For sure
Dru Mack 20:20
I mean like hard redpoints are like, I'm too focused to be like fully enjoying the moment, if that makes sense.
Nate Drolet 20:27
Totally. Like, there was a an interesting
Dru Mack 20:29
I'm just like "I have to try really hard".
Kris Hampton 20:31
Sure. Yeah.
Nate Drolet 20:32
I can't think about how amazing this move is
Kris Hampton 20:34
Right
Nate Drolet 20:36
Yeah, there was an interview with Jonathan Siegrist on the...... Everything Climbing podcast and in it, he talks about it. He, he was just like, yeah, one of my favorite things when I
Kris Hampton 20:46
All Things Climbing?
Nate Drolet 20:47
Yeah?
Kris Hampton 20:47
Everything Climbing. One of those.
Nate Drolet 20:48
One of those.
Kris Hampton 20:49
I haven't listened yet, but I will, someday.
Nate Drolet 20:51
Well, there's two part with Siegrist and in it, he talks about one of his favorite things of sport climbing is having a bunch of his friends at the crag. And his reason for it is he's just like, "Man, when I think sport climbing like hard redpointing", he's like, "Fun is not the first word that comes to mind." Like, it is hard, it's stressful, like, and I think it's like anyone who's competed at a high level or even just competed in something that meant a lot to them, like, knows, like, you know, you build up a lot of nerves. Like I remember racing, when I was younger, it's like, racing wasn't fun. Like, I love training. I loved like, hanging out with my friends and I loved like the idea of racing. But like, in that moment, like I had a lot of nerves and it was like, you know, everything else is going through my mind but like, "Man, isn't this a fun time". Like and for me, like the hardest redpoints are like, in that same kind of groove. It's like, I love the process. Like, like, I love especially getting to work on something hard with someone else. But in that small moment, like, it's hard. It's nerve racking, like,
Kris Hampton 21:50
Yeah, I think I've reframed it over the years. And not just with redpointing, but with, I mean, lots of things in my life starting way before climbing. I've kind of reframed challenges as fun. And I think that has extended into whether it's difficult onsights or hard redpoints or whatever, that's really fun for me, like testing myself against an intention.
Nate Drolet 22:17
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Kris Hampton 22:19
Maybe that's why I came up with fun.
Nate Drolet 22:20
Yeah, no, it's funny you say that because I think about like, that's interesting because to me, like hard onsights it like that is the most fun I ever have rock climbing. Like just pull on, grip it and rip it, like give 100%, confident and go and like fall trying hard, like there is nothing more fun to me in rock climbing than trying for a hard onsight. So it's funny, like, I don't know why. Maybe it's just an expectation thing.
Kris Hampton 22:43
I don't know. I saw you on that almost boltless slab in Vedauwoo and it looks like you were having a lot of fun.
Nate Drolet 22:48
I was so off route.
Kris Hampton 22:49
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 22:50
I was terri...gripped.... Okay
Dru Mack 22:51
So not fun?
Kris Hampton 22:52
Hahahaha
Nate Drolet 22:53
Yeah. Dru you weren't there.I'm like calling down to Kris and I'm like, "Kris does it go right or up? I don't know, like there's no chalk and I'm lost." And he's like, "Yeah...just just go kind of up." It went right.
Dru Mack 23:02
That's not fun to me.
Kris Hampton 23:03
It didn't go right.
Nate Drolet 23:04
I'm on like, these ball bearings, like 30 feet run out over.... I don't know a pretty bomber .3 or number three or whatever. It would have held obviously.
Kris Hampton 23:12
But you onsighted it, so it was fun.
Nate Drolet 23:14
Yeah, I'm really glad I onsighted that 5.6
Kris Hampton 23:16
Hahaha
Dru Mack 23:17
I'm trying to romp up 5.6. That's my fun...my fun zone.
Nate Drolet 23:20
It was not fun. I was in the danger zone.
Kris Hampton 23:24
Yeah, so I mean, I think that's a that's a really common one actually.
Nate Drolet 23:30
Totally, like pulling the trigger too earlier or waiting so long that you're always comfortable.
Kris Hampton 23:34
Yep. So be careful about it. Be honest with yourself about how it's actually going.
Nate Drolet 23:38
So Kris, what is our number four?
Kris Hampton 23:41
Well
Nate Drolet 23:41
Whoa sorry
Kris Hampton 23:42
Our collective number four.
Nate Drolet 23:44
What is my number four?
Kris Hampton 23:46
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 23:46
That you so graciously allowed
Dru Mack 23:48
Please stop fighting guys.
Kris Hampton 23:49
I just dropped it. Sorry Dru. You're all gonna have to wait until tomorrow for number four. In the meantime, you can find Dru on the Instagrams @DruMack5. You can find Nate on the Instagrams at @cruxpadwell, you can find me @PowerCompanyClimbing on the Instagrams, the Facebooks and the Pinterest or at www..... nobody uses that anymore. PowerCompanyClimbing.com You could search for us all day on the Twitters. You're not gonna find any of us because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.
Kris Hampton 25:37
Are you not gonna
Dru Mack 25:39
Can I eat this?
Kris Hampton 25:40
Yeah
Dru Mack 25:40
Put the mic down here?
Kris Hampton 25:41
Yeah. You can eat it with the mic up there.
Dru Mack 25:44
I can?
Kris Hampton 25:45
Yeah, you're Dru Mack. Some people want to hear you chew.
Dru Mack 25:47
No, nobody does.
Kris Hampton 25:48
You're famous dude.
Nate Drolet 25:49
You know it's great is actually
Kris Hampton 25:50
I'm going to sell these sound bites of Dru chewing on Ebay.
Nate Drolet 25:54
I was at the crag the other day, I was on the at the Rodeo Wave and these two guys that climb the Red were just like, "Oh man!"
Kris Hampton 26:01
Ty and...?
Nate Drolet 26:02
Ty and Brennan
Kris Hampton 26:03
Brennan. Yeah. Shout out Ty and Brennan.
Nate Drolet 26:05
Shout out to Ty and Brennan.
Kris Hampton 26:07
Ty won the dyno comp.
Nate Drolet 26:08
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 26:09
Brennan is swole.
Nate Drolet 26:11
Yes, very.
Dru Mack 26:12
So swole.
Nate Drolet 26:13
Yeah, Ty saved the day. I said that final dyno and I was like, "Oh, God, I hope someone can do this." Crushed it. So we're there and I think it was Ty who was saying that...he was like, "Oh, yeah, you know, I met Dru Mack, but I had to pretend like I didn't know him because like, I can't just be like, 'Oh, well, you're Dru Mack'. So I had to like, you know, pretend like I was meeting someone I didn't know." So that's pretty funny.
Kris Hampton 26:35
Good job Ty
Dru Mack 26:35
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 26:36
Dru needed that. His ego was getting giant sized.
Dru Mack 26:39
Yeah, shout outs Ty. Young dude climbing really hard and scary trad routes.
Kris Hampton 26:46
Yeah, those kids are strong man
Dru Mack 26:47
Proper rad
Kris Hampton 26:48
And they're stoked. So this is gonna go at the end of the podcast as a little little Easter egg at the very end, so you'll have to tell them all to listen Dru.
Dru Mack 27:02
Check it out.
Kris Hampton 27:04
Alright, we ready?
Nate Drolet 27:05
Yep.
EPISODE 110:
Kris Hampton 00:31
What's up everybody, I'm your host, Kris Hampton. Welcome to Episode 110 of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. Today's Board Meeting is Part Two of a five part series of the Top Five Most Common Redpoint Pitfalls featuring special guest, Dru Mack. If you haven't listened to Part One, go back and do that, Episode 109. And today we are jumping into our number four most common redpoint pitfall.
Dru Mack 01:06
Please stop fighting guys.
Kris Hampton 01:07
I just dropped it. Sorry, Dru. Number four is actually something I see a lot. And that's what we said with all these. We see these a lot. These could all be number one. Is that people get stuck in bad beta really easily and I'm going to go ahead and just say this
Nate Drolet 01:27
Haha
Kris Hampton 01:28
Even though this will sort of overarch this entire part of the conversation, but just because you did a move doesn't mean it's the best way to do the move. And that's what I see happen so often is people just going bolt to bolt, doing links, whatever. They do a move a certain way and then that's the way they do it forever to the point of they will preach it to you, "No, this the way you do that move." and I'm like, "Have you tried it the other way? You know, maybe the other way is better, but you haven't tried it so you don't know." So, yeah,
Nate Drolet 02:05
Yeah, bad beta and getting, being close minded with it. I've got a pretty great story with this. When I first moved to the New, oh, this was in 2011, went out there and started climbing on a hard route with a buddy and he'd already had close to 200 days on on it. Mega, mega proj. And immediately within like my second go of going up it, I was like, "Man, you're using some kind of funky beta." And like, you know, he was making some sections quite hard. But he had literally stuck with his bad beta for so long, and had dialed it in so much he could not switch to the easier method because he had had so much muscle memory,
Kris Hampton 02:49
Right
Nate Drolet 02:49
That even though these other sequences were maybe like two V grades easier, he couldn't do it. Like it was harder, because he had stuck with his bad method for so long.
Kris Hampton 02:58
Yep. Yeah, I've seen that quite a bit. And I actually see a lot of really strong climbers with really bad beta.
Nate Drolet 03:04
Oh, yeah.
Kris Hampton 03:05
Because they don't need the good beta a lot of the times. BJ Tilden is a great example. He's got some of the wackest fucking beta I've ever seen bcause he can just do it that way and there's not a big difference for him between V8 and V11, you know, it's, they all feel the same to him. That'd be like me switching from 5.9 to 5.10 moves. I can't tell the difference, so I just don't worry about it and he doesn't worry about that kind of stuff. So I think one part of being stuck in bad beta is watching stronger people do the climb and saying, "Oh, that's the way. I'm going to do it that way." and then just not doesn't even have to be stronger people just other people doing the move and then saying, "That's the way to do it. That's the way I'm going to do it. That's the accepted method. I'm not going to explore around because this is the way such and such did it."
Nate Drolet 03:56
Totally. I mean, that's so common like, and I think what a lot of people fall into the trap of is, "Oh, well, this is the beta that everyone has used before me. I'll just follow it." and then what's funny is I feel like those routes or those boulder problems are the ones that normally have like, a completely different set of beta, where it's like, "Oh, yeah, everyone just does a giant jump." And it's like, "Oh, there's like, you know, an undercling over here and you can just drop knee "
Kris Hampton 04:19
Right
Nate Drolet 04:19
But no one has ever explored it because like, "This is the beta."
Kris Hampton 04:22
Right.
Dru Mack 04:23
Or the inverse, where you know, you don't know what anybody does and you find your own way.
Kris Hampton 04:28
Oh, yeah
Nate Drolet 04:29
You do some fucked up shit.
Dru Mack 04:30
You do some really bad stuff. And that's just, you know, the way it is and you don't take the time to really learn, or listen to other people. I feel like that's a big mistake is like, just because you have your way, people will then not still talk about the moves with the people, you know. They're just like, "Oh, no, I know that sequence" when just by asking you could probably learn something.
Kris Hampton 04:53
Yeah, I've fallen into that trap quite a few times, actually.
Dru Mack 04:56
That's because you're cocky haha.
Kris Hampton 04:57
Well, that's mostly why. Yeah, you're you're exactly right. But actually, it's because I often climb without other people who are at that level.
Dru Mack 05:09
Yeah, totally
Kris Hampton 05:09
You know, so I end up figuring out the beta on my own all the time and isn't always the right way. And I like being like someone else showing up and being...and doing it and then I'm like, "Oh!", like the heavens just parted and I saw the light. That's really fun for me. There was a time, years and years ago when I was an offwidth climber with no good sense and I did this offwidth in the Red
Dru Mack 05:37
A first ascent.
Kris Hampton 05:37
I know. It was. I did this offwidth in the Red, it was an FA, I think. And
Dru Mack 05:44
Which one?
Kris Hampton 05:45
I can't remember the name of it.
Dru Mack 05:47
Haha
Kris Hampton 05:48
I named it but I don't remember the name of it. But it was in a corner, wide crack in a corner. Really cool, steep finish. Really fun...well as fun as offwith climbing can be. And I thought it was like 11c. The guy who went up and did the second ascent was like, "Maybe I didn't do the same route as you? I thought it was like 10a or 10b."
Nate Drolet 06:12
Oh, man.
Kris Hampton 06:13
And I was like, "Really? You know, where is it at?" and he described it perfectly and I'm like, "Well, what did you do?" And he's like, "Well, I just stemmed up the whole thing. You know, there's all these giant holds through that steep section on the left side of the wall." and I was like, "Oh, well, my back was to the left wall the entire time." So I had, I never even saw any holds. It was just this blank offwidth to me, you know. And the next time I went up there, I did it his way and it was for sure 10a or 10b. And I think that's a that's a good example of it. Like just being so blinded by your method that you just don't see other methods.
Nate Drolet 06:51
No, totally. And it's, it's one of those things that's tough too like, we were just talking earlier about Supercharger and how
Kris Hampton 06:58
Yeah
Nate Drolet 06:59
I was trying the exit crux and Dru was around the crag because he's warming up at Driveby to go try Fifty Words for Pump. And Dru's like, "Hey, Nate, you want some beta?" and I'm like, "Yeah, sure." And so he tells me what he does and like, I look at it because like, it's right in front of me. I'm like, "No, that's fucked." So go back to my own method and after a few times, I was like, "Ah...I guess I'll try his beta." And it's one of those things that like, I looked at it, it looks horrible. Even when I pulled on, I was like, "Oh, this feels horrible." and the second I went for the move, I was like, "Oh, this is significantly better." So even like looking at it, pulling into the position, all felt terrible. But it wasn't until I actually like went for it that I was like, "Oh, this is a game changer". And if it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't have done the route, definitely not like last fall. But it's one of those things, it's so easy to until you try something to just write off other people's beta.
Dru Mack 07:54
Yeah. And I had the same exact experience on the same exact route where I was going right and doing a different way. And then somebody showed me that beta, just like I showed you, and and you know, it changed the route for me.
Nate Drolet 08:01
Yeah. So it's one of those things, yeah, you can fall into the trap of. And too, it's just like, I think it's nice to have beta of someone, either right at your strength or just to touch weaker. Just a touch weaker is really nice, because they have to make it more efficient.
Kris Hampton 08:22
As long as they're good at finding ways through things.
Kris Hampton 08:25
Right.
Nate Drolet 08:25
Yes. Like, I've actually climbed with people who... they could climb very well, like they could climb very hard routes, but they were so dependent on making a five moves sequence into a 15 move sequence that I couldn't do it.
Nate Drolet 08:26
I was like, "Yes, this may be easier, but it's like, I'll choose a two move V8 over a fifteen move V6 any day of the week.
Kris Hampton 08:45
Right.
Dru Mack 08:46
And I might be the opposite.
Kris Hampton 08:47
Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that
Nate Drolet 08:49
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 08:50
It's certainly a feasible thing. I mean, that's a real thing. You have to play to your strengths when you're really trying to send something.
Nate Drolet 08:57
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 08:58
But that does bring up a point. If you're trying wack beta and you've been able to do it, like you mentioned, your friend in the New, and then you give one attempt at this new beta, it's going to feel foreign. Oftentimes, it's going to feel a little harder unless you give it a number of attempts. And I think that's a big mistake in this being stuck in bad beta. They'll touch the move the way someone else said to do it and then they're just like, "Nah, my method's better" and they'll go right back to the other method.
Nate Drolet 09:30
That's a super important point. Because yeah, you think about it, there's so many times you will try and move and it'll feel horrible the first time and then after like five goes, you're like, "Okay, cool. I'll never fall on it again." So if you try someone else's method, and you just give it the first try, where it's going to feel horrible because it's new and foreign to you and that's what you gauge it off of, then it's like, you're not really given it much of a chance. Yeah, and that's, I mean, that's a trap I still fall into for sure. Like it's, you know, it's tough and you only have so much energy when you're on a rock climb to like, try all this different beta. So it's an easy trap to fall into. Is there a time when it's okay to use terrible beta?
Kris Hampton 10:09
Yes.
Nate Drolet 10:10
Continue.
Kris Hampton 10:11
Even though
Dru Mack 10:12
Es Pontas
Kris Hampton 10:12
Haha
Nate Drolet 10:12
Haha. When keeping it real goes wrong.
Kris Hampton 10:20
Hahaha. Yeah, and actually, I have a hard time calling this bad beta, but I think it is okay to make a move more difficult if it somehow makes the next sequence or the exit moves or whatever, easier.
Dru Mack 10:37
Efficiency.
Kris Hampton 10:38
Yeah, exactly
Dru Mack 10:39
It could be faster that way.
Kris Hampton 10:40
And it has to be overall efficiency.
Dru Mack 10:42
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 10:42
In the grand scheme of things
Nate Drolet 10:43
Effectiveness.
Kris Hampton 10:44
Yeah, that's a good word. Yeah, effectiveness. I've, I've seen a lot of people get trapped in something even as simple as like, "I need to have my left hand in this pocket to do this move, but it's easier to get my right hand there." So they will spend days trying to find a method where they get their right hand there, and can still make the rest of it work. And I'm just like, "Why don't you just figure out...do the hard move to get your left hand there?". "But it's too hard!" But I'm like, "But it's the only way you're going to continue", you know, and for some reason, some people just can't grasp that. Like sometimes you have to make a move harder to be in the right sequence.
Nate Drolet 11:22
Totally. So like the most common situation where I see this, and it cracks me up, is if someone... let's say they have a left hand on jug and a right hand on a crimp. They want to keep their left hand on that jug. It doesn't matter if it takes them completely out of sequence. They're like, "But this is the good hand. Why wouldn't I just use this?"
Kris Hampton 11:38
Right
Nate Drolet 11:38
Well, sometimes you got to front load the work. It's like, yes, maybe you'll make this next move one Vgrade harder, but it'll make the whole next sequence three V grades easier
Dru Mack 11:47
The set up
Nate Drolet 11:47
The set up. Exactly
Kris Hampton 11:50
The setup. I needed to say it too, like that.
Dru Mack 11:52
Haha
Nate Drolet 11:52
Yeah, no, that's like, I think that's a really important thing to think about is like the effectiveness of the entire climb. A good example of this is, and also it depends on how strong you are.
Kris Hampton 12:03
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 12:04
So like Midway at Little Rock City. For people who don't know, it's like a seam traverse. It's like crimps in a seam with slopey smeary feet,
Kris Hampton 12:11
No feet. That's that's the way I see it.
Nate Drolet 12:14
Thank you. You're proving my point already.
Kris Hampton 12:16
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 12:16
So when people do the Chattanoogan, the V12...and so Midway's V7, and the sit start is V12.
Kris Hampton 12:22
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 12:22
And it's heinous crimps from the sit. People who do the V12 just campus all of Midway.
Kris Hampton 12:27
Right
Nate Drolet 12:28
The people who do Midway as their first V7 do it with all the smeary, heinous smearing, polished feet
Kris Hampton 12:34
Right.
Nate Drolet 12:34
But the thing is, if you're a V12 crimper, campusing Midway is probably a more efficient slash effective method.
Nate Drolet 12:35
You're through it away faster that way.
Nate Drolet 12:43
Yeah. You're gonna save more energy. You're strong enough that you can just bust through it. You have no chance of your foot popping. But if you're a V7 climber, you know, you sure as shit aren't going to try and be campusing You'll never make it.
Kris Hampton 12:55
Right.
Nate Drolet 12:55
So like effectiveness can change what to what your strengths are.
Dru Mack 13:00
Yeah, and I find I mean, this one's a little different because it would be the inverse of like, kind of a bouldering. Bad beta also would be, I find shaking out on a rest and the time on the rest like can be bad beta. Like that route Living In Fear we were talking about earlier
Kris Hampton 13:18
Mmm hmm. You can definitely get trapped in some rests
Dru Mack 13:19
Trying to rest too long can ultimately be worse for you than just getting there, chalking up, calming down and going.
Kris Hampton 13:30
Yeah.
Dru Mack 13:31
Which is something that like, you know, is neglected as beta. You don't normally think of resting as beta.
Nate Drolet 13:38
It's huge.
Dru Mack 13:39
But it's really important as well.
Kris Hampton 13:40
Yeah, I fell into the trap for a long time of whenever I hit a jug, I would just shake out, because that's what you do when you climb in the Red. And just recently, actually, when I was trying Endeavor To Persevere up in Sinks, I was having a really hard time with this kind of intro middle section, right after the hard boulder problem. You you're in the middle of this next boulder problem, and there's jug, right there in the middle of the boulder, and I'm like, "It's a jug. I have to stay here. I have to hang out. I have to shake out. I need to get everything back right here."
Kris Hampton 14:18
But it's in a funky position and
Nate Drolet 14:18
These are the rules.
Dru Mack 14:21
Feet might be bad.
Kris Hampton 14:22
Yeah, the feet were bad. And for like four attempts, I just kept trying to hang out there. And finally, I was like, "This is really fucking stupid, and I just need to keep moving" and that made all the difference.
Dru Mack 14:34
Yep.
Nate Drolet 14:34
Yeah, no, I had the same experience. Last fall, I was climbing on a route. I had spent the summer getting in shape for Zookeeper, which was like a 25 move sprint, so shaking was out of the question. But I was trying to really huge like 100
Kris Hampton 14:47
Didn't you say 26 earlier?
Nate Drolet 14:48
Ah....It depends if use an intermediate or not.
Kris Hampton 14:52
Ahh...He's changing his story, Dru.
Nate Drolet 14:54
Yeah
Dru Mack 14:54
I mean, I told you 30 and I got called out.
Kris Hampton 14:56
Yeah
Nate Drolet 14:56
Well, it's 25...25 to 26 to the hand jam and you can't fall out of hand jams. It's just not physically possible.
Kris Hampton 15:02
Yes. Yeah, that's not a thing.
Dru Mack 15:04
Some people don't use the hand jam.
Nate Drolet 15:06
Well those people are wrong.
Dru Mack 15:07
I'm not saying I didn't. I definitely did.
Kris Hampton 15:10
Hahaha
Dru Mack 15:10
Dylan Barks. Shout out.
Nate Drolet 15:13
Ohh man.
Dru Mack 15:13
I love you, bro.
Nate Drolet 15:15
Learn how to hand jam. But yeah, so I was really fit for just sprinting and I was trying this big 110 foot route and it had a big rest in the middle of a hard section, but it was like, kind of physically taxing. Like, I could get my forearms to be 100% recovered to where I wasn't pumped, but I was powered down for the second half of this crux.
Kris Hampton 15:36
Right.
Nate Drolet 15:37
So what I realized was I could get there, still be kind of pumped, like surprisingly pumped, chalk each hand and then run through and even though I was like, significantly more pumped, I was still much more snappy and powerful, which was
Dru Mack 15:50
That gets into like a whole other debate about, you know, time under tension and that kind of thing.
Kris Hampton 15:54
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Nate Drolet 15:55
Yeah. And it's like, it's, it's a really weird thing to try and like, learn and practice. It's something I still don't fully understand. But, yeah, so it's crazy that I would intentionally leave myself more pumped, but I would get through the next section better.
Kris Hampton 16:11
Right.
Nate Drolet 16:12
And then the only time I would say that it's really good to use bad beta and is when it's really bitchin, like when the sequence is cool.
Dru Mack 16:19
Ayyy
Kris Hampton 16:19
Yeah, yeah.
Nate Drolet 16:20
Like the thing I did in the Machine Shop the other day where I was intentionally not using my feet and pogoing.
Kris Hampton 16:24
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 16:25
Yeah, I was basically just like doing an extra campus move, because it was way more fun and made me feel like Ty Landman.
Dru Mack 16:30
Yeah. I mean, you got to do it for the 'Gram sometimes.
Kris Hampton 16:32
Yeah, I tell people all the time that the coolest move in the Machine Shop and I think I've showed you the problem, that that would be really bad beta on a route. I would never do it that way, but I can force you to do it my gym.
Nate Drolet 16:44
Yeah, you know, sometimes like, especially with boulder problems, I find myself just like, sometimes I just want to do things a fun way. Like either if it's a historic method, like on Rude Boys in Smith, you don't have to do the giant rose
Kris Hampton 16:58
The big rose move
Nate Drolet 16:59
But come on. Like, of course, I'm going to do that giant rose move like, so things like that. Like, you know, if it adds enjoyment go for it, but don't be an idiot.
Kris Hampton 17:09
Yeah. And I think if you're trying to send, like if, if this is a...if you're going to do this. If you if you're onsighting, if it's your send, go, whatever and your beta is the bad beta, then, but that works for you, if that's not the most efficient way for everybody else, then fucking stick to it.
Nate Drolet 17:30
Mm hmm. No, totally.
Kris Hampton 17:31
I'm cool with that. Yeah.
Kris Hampton 17:34
All right. Number three. Can you read Nate's notes over there Dru?
Dru Mack 17:38
I can
Nate Drolet 17:38
In my Spencerian script?
Kris Hampton 17:40
Yeah, I'll let you do number three.
Dru Mack 17:41
I wish I could show you guys the Gs that he writes.
Kris Hampton 17:44
Ha. Real G's move in silence like lasagna
Nate Drolet 17:47
You stole it from me!
Dru Mack 17:48
Literally we were all just gonna say it at the same time.
Kris Hampton 17:51
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 17:51
It would have been great if we could have harmonized that.
Kris Hampton 17:55
We still could. You each could say and then I could edit it so that we are harmonizing it.
Nate Drolet 17:59
Just auto tune all of us haha.
Kris Hampton 18:03
Hahaha. All right, what's number three Dru?
Dru Mack 18:05
Lil Wayne's the greatest of all time. Prove me wrong. Number three.
Kris Hampton 18:08
Haha that's another podcast.
Nate Drolet 18:09
Haha
Dru Mack 18:11
Carter II, all day. So number three is going to be about links. Those linky-dinkies
Nate Drolet 18:20
Abe Lincolns
Kris Hampton 18:21
Linky-dinks
Kris Hampton 18:21
Abe Lincoln is what Tara Kerzhner would say
Kris Hampton 18:22
Shout out Tara Kerzhner.
Dru Mack 18:24
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 18:28
All right, y'all are just gonna have to wait until tomorrow for Part Three of this series, which actually will be our third in the series, our number three redpoint pitfall. It's the only time those are going to line up because that's how math works when we're counting down and counting up at the same time. Anyway, you all can find Dru Mack on the Instagrams @drumack5. You can find Nate Drolet on the Instagrams @cruxpadwell. You can find us at powercompanyclimbing.com You can also find me @PowerCompanyClimbing on the Instagrams, the Pinterest and the Facebooks. You can search for all three of us on the Twitters. You'll probably find things but you won't find us because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.
EPISODE 111:
Kris Hampton 00:31
What's up everybody, I'm your host, Kris Hampton. Welcome to Episode 111 of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. Today's Board <eeting is Part Three of a three part series. If you have not listened to Parts One and Two, with guest Board Meeting host Dru Mack, you should go back and do that. Episodes 109, 110 are our five and four top redpoint pitfalls and this is our number three most common redpoint pitfall.
Dru Mack 01:09
So number three is going to be about links, those linky-dinkies
Nate Drolet 01:12
Abe Lincolns
Kris Hampton 01:12
Linky-dinks
Dru Mack 01:12
Those Abe Lincolns is what Tara Kerzhner would say.
Nate Drolet 01:18
Shout out Tara Kerzhner.
Dru Mack 01:19
Yeah, and you know, a lot of times that's about, you know, doing the right links, the wrong links, letting the links, you know, expire as well, as Nate was saying.
Kris Hampton 01:33
Yes, this is an interesting concept that Nate brought up earlier today.
Dru Mack 01:36
Yeah, I hadn't even really thought about this a whole lot until we we like put it into words, but it makes a lot of sense.
Nate Drolet 01:44
For anyone who doesn't, isn't super familiar with, like redpoint tactics, what are links?
Kris Hampton 01:50
Links are when, okay, so each route breaks down into a series of boulder problems, regardless of how easy they are. Maybe they're all V2 boulder problems. maybe there's a V8 to, you know, series of V1 boulder problems, who knows. Whatever it is, links are essentially just linking a bunch of sections of a route together. More often than not, we want to do it in the obvious spots first
Nate Drolet 02:17
Checkpoint
Dru Mack 02:18
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, like you're going to start by... the links might just be going bolt bolt, and then it might be linking two bolt together. And the ultimate you know, the the first, you know, most climbers are trying to get to that, the one hank, which would be linking the route in two sections
Kris Hampton 02:18
Like the checkpoint climbing, so from rest to rest, or from this rest to the top or from the bottom to this rest. Or from obvious sections, like if the route is vertical, and then gets steep, you know, maybe I want to do the vertical section, then I want to do the steep section. And then you want to start linking overlaps. So that's the basic idea of what links are. It's just putting together larger and larger pieces of a route so that you can eventually put the whole thing together.
Kris Hampton 03:06
And that can be in a bunch of different ways.
Dru Mack 03:08
Yeah, exactly. And in a lot of different spots.
Kris Hampton 03:09
You can one hang it from bolt 1, 2, 3, 4, whatever.
Dru Mack 03:11
Exactly. Yeah. And tactics come into play a lot with that.
Nate Drolet 03:18
Totally. Yeah. And this is something that I think gets missed out on a lot, just because
Kris Hampton 03:28
Well, I just said obvious links, so I think
Nate Drolet 03:30
Obvious links
Kris Hampton 03:30
People go to the obvious links and past there they don't think much about it.
Nate Drolet 03:34
"Well, I went to the crux. I fell and then I did the crux and then I went to the top. I got all the links. I should do it next go."
Kris Hampton 03:39
"I one hung this bitch."
Nate Drolet 03:40
I can't tell you....yeah, it's, I can't tell you the amount of times I've heard that.
Dru Mack 03:45
Done, did, seen it.
Kris Hampton 03:46
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 03:47
A super classic is in the Red River Gorge, Spank. It's like 12- up to I don't know V6 or so and then you're at the anchors
Dru Mack 03:56
Or Golden Boy, which would be the same exact breakdown.
Kris Hampton 03:59
Haha. You think it's 12- to the boulder?
Dru Mack 04:03
No.
Kris Hampton 04:04
Okay. I was gonna kick you out of my house.
Nate Drolet 04:07
But yeah, so it's super common that people will link up to 12-, fall in the boulder and then maybe they do the boulder in like one or two tries, get to the anchors and they are like "Oh, I'm super close to sending"
Kris Hampton 04:20
"Ready to go."
Nate Drolet 04:21
Yeah, but the difference between getting to the boulder and doing the boulder is enormous.
Kris Hampton 04:27
Yes.
Nate Drolet 04:27
So at that point, what would be the best way, let's just use this as a as an example if you're climbing like 12b to a V6, and you're climbing and you're like, "Okay, well I can climb up to the crux. I fall into the crux and then I do it to the top". Like how can they break that down better?
Kris Hampton 04:43
And we've talked about this before too, but the top down method kind of comes into play there, where you can if you've done it from the base of the boulder to the top, then drop it down a bolt or two. If there's an obvious you know, stance or rest spot a couple bolts below, try it from there. You can't do it from there, then just go one bolt below the crux. But keep dropping it lower and lower in that sort of situation.
Nate Drolet 05:08
Totally.
Dru Mack 05:09
Yeah. And that's kind of where it overlaps, overlaps kind of come in play is like a lot of times I'm trying to high point a route,
Kris Hampton 05:15
And then trying to hit a low point.
Dru Mack 05:17
Yeah. And then trying to low point. And the further those, those two things get apart, the ultimately closer you're getting to doing the route. Because you may low point from low on the route and high point high on the route and at that point, you're getting really close.
Kris Hampton 05:34
Do you ike the term "low point"?
Dru Mack 05:36
I feel like it can be misconstrued as something that
Kris Hampton 05:39
Yeah
Dru Mack 05:39
"Oh you hit a low point on a route."
Kris Hampton 05:41
I feel weird about it every time I say it.
Dru Mack 05:42
Yeah, no, no, I mean, I think it can just be misinterpreted,
Kris Hampton 05:45
We should call it like the drop point or something.
Dru Mack 05:49
I mean or just say you're like one hanging from lower.
Kris Hampton 05:52
That's too many word Dru.
Nate Drolet 05:53
Because that's concise.
Kris Hampton 05:56
Hahaha
Dru Mack 05:56
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 05:56
Welcome to the Board Meetings.
Dru Mack 05:59
Hey guys.
Kris Hampton 05:59
Haha
Nate Drolet 05:59
Haha. Yeah. So so for instance, like for overlaps, just to like, clarify a little bit better, so if there's like a 10 bolt route, what Dru was saying, like you would, if you're high pointing to the eighth bolt, then your low point would be like, "Okay, I'm going to try and send it from the second bolt", which is
Dru Mack 06:18
I mean, that would be massive. First of all, you would try to do it from, you know, if you're falling at the eighth bolt from the ground, maybe go to the seventh and then like go to the top.
Nate Drolet 06:25
And then you would slowly work down lower and lower
Nate Drolet 06:27
Just make the overlap bigger and bigger.
Dru Mack 06:29
Exactly.
Nate Drolet 06:29
And it's important to keep doing that, because by just doing the same exact link, especially if you're just...a lot of people get stuck in this, like one hang rut
Kris Hampton 06:39
Right. Always hanging at the same spot.
Nate Drolet 06:42
Exactly.
Dru Mack 06:43
To be honest, you know, we didn't talk about this, but links to me also don't always mean doing the route from lower or doing the route, you know, like that. Like sometimes I want to do the crux three times in a row
Kris Hampton 06:57
Right
Dru Mack 06:57
And that linking that crux section, doing it twice, like doing it, lowering to that same, you know, where you started and doing it again, has more value than maybe lowering two bolts and doing it once.
Nate Drolet 07:12
Totally.
Kris Hampton 07:13
I knew you were good at this. That's why we brought you here.
Nate Drolet 07:15
That's a good point. I got a buddy in the New who is trying Skylore Engine, which ends with a massive dyno.
Kris Hampton 07:22
It's just heinous.
Nate Drolet 07:24
Yeah. And he's not a tall guy.
Kris Hampton 07:25
I love that route.
Nate Drolet 07:26
And he's got shorter arms than me, and so he has to all points off dyno.
Kris Hampton 07:29
Yeah, I do, too. Horrible.
Nate Drolet 07:31
Me too. It's so hard. I abandoned it to go try and send 5.14s and then I tried to come back after sending 5.14 and still haven't done it. So he was like, one day, he was like, "Cool. I'm just going to go up and if I can nail this dyno three out of ten times, that's a success." And the next time we came back, he was like, "I want to hit more than 50% for the dyno." And then the next day we came back.... I forget what his goal was, but hit like five for five.
Dru Mack 07:58
Yeah, consistency is is important.
Nate Drolet 08:00
Yeah, no, and it was huge. And that was such a huge thing. And the next day, we went back, he did it, he one hung the route, like did the dyno from something crazy low, which was like, wasn't even his goal for the day. He was like, "I just want to get up and see if I can do it, you know, like, four out of five times or whatever", did a huge link, which you have no hands rest halfway up the route and he did it from the no hands at the top, which is like, amazing.
Kris Hampton 08:22
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 08:22
But it was one of those things of like, few people would think like, "Oh, God, I hope I can do this three out of 10 times." But for him, this was the process and like he fully accepted, like, "Hey, this is an all points off dyno at the top of, you know, what, 110 foot route, a massive route." He's like, "I just want to make it a little better every time."
Kris Hampton 08:40
Yep. And I think that's really important because it's sort of highlighting that one person's low percentage move is another person's warm up. And if if you can learn to make that low percentage move more high percentage, you've got a much better chance of sending. If you can make that low percentage crux, if you can make that hard section, higher percentage, then you got a much better chance of sending and that's what Dru was talking about, that's what you're seeing with your friend on Skylore Engine.
Nate Drolet 09:12
Totally.
Dru Mack 09:13
Yeah. I just kind of went through that process on Waka Flocka in Rifle where the you know, the bottom is not so hard to uh, you know, two bolts section that's quite difficult. And to me, instead of just keep lowering down a little bit further, where it's really not so hard, I decided I wanted that two bolt power endurance section to feel easier and easier, so I spent lot of time climbing it instead of climbing the 5.11 below, over and over again. And that that really helped me feel confident in climbing that section and so regardless of how I felt coming from the bottom, I felt more confident in that that power endurance boulder section
Kris Hampton 09:58
And you can do that on like relatively moderate sections of route as well.
Dru Mack 10:03
100%
Kris Hampton 10:04
Like for instance, Cat's Demise in the Red River Gorge is like, I don't even know what I would call the grade, but the middle section of that route where it's slopey compressiony sort of climbing is maybe what 12b?
Nate Drolet 10:19
Mid-twelve, yeah, yeah, it's not the hardest, but it's hard enough that
Dru Mack 10:23
For the route, yeah.
Kris Hampton 10:24
And it tires you out enough for the upper crux
Dru Mack 10:27
Yep.
Kris Hampton 10:27
So when I first started trying that route, at the end of the day, I would just do laps on that little center section, just to totally dial it in. And I figured if I can do like a 4x4 on the middle of this route, then I can, I can breeze through it when it's redpoint time.
Dru Mack 10:44
Yeah. And then you can get up to the upper crux with a lot more tank in your arms,
Nate Drolet 10:49
The ol' tank in the arms.
Kris Hampton 10:52
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 10:52
That's how they do it. Haha.
Dru Mack 10:54
Words. Haha.
Kris Hampton 10:57
Words are hard Dru. We put out millions of them every, every few months, so
Dru Mack 11:02
For every good thing I say....for every good thing I say I'll say, you know, one or two
Nate Drolet 11:08
You're adding value either way. You just keep going.
Dru Mack 11:10
Things that don't really make sense.
Kris Hampton 11:12
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 11:13
But yeah, I think those are really important parts... points that like, you know, as far as links go, like, just repeating the crux several times so that you feel more comfortable or yeah, like Kris said, and I think it's really important, repeating the easier sections. Like, especially one thing I recommend to like all my athletes and like, now anyone who's listening, is there are plenty of routes to where maybe it's, let's say it's 12a up to a V5, like, just do that 12a as like your second warm up every day or as your cool down after your project.
Kris Hampton 11:45
Yeah totally.
Nate Drolet 11:45
Because like, you're just gonna keep dialing that in
Dru Mack 11:47
Get the muscle memory.
Kris Hampton 11:48
Yeah, that's what I did for Transworld. I would warm up on the 12c intro.
Nate Drolet 11:53
I'm so sorry.
Kris Hampton 11:53
As part of my warm up.
Dru Mack 11:54
Bummer.
Kris Hampton 11:55
That part is really fun. You guys are crazy
Nate Drolet 11:57
It's such bad rock climbing.
Kris Hampton 11:58
No way.
Dru Mack 11:58
I actually like it.
Kris Hampton 11:59
It's so much fun. Haha
Nate Drolet 12:01
Um....But yes, I mean, it's like, it's I mean, it's like free money. Like, you can just like get free beta, like you can dial it in, it's not taking away from your day. If anything, you're now going to have like, you know, that more specific muscle memory from just having gone up it, so you will be even more relaxed.
Kris Hampton 12:17
Right, right. So another thing about links is that if you're scared of a link, you should definitely be doing that link.
Nate Drolet 12:26
Yes.
Kris Hampton 12:26
You have to do it when you send for god's sake, so
Nate Drolet 12:29
Yeah. You can't avoid it forever.
Kris Hampton 12:31
You're not going to avoid it, so if you're scared of it, whether it's, you know you're going to fall because you're going to be pumped, you know it's going to be difficult, it's scary because you're going to have to skip bolt, whatever that link is that intimidate you, that's the link you should be looking for.
Dru Mack 12:48
People definitely kind of skip that, skip that one often, I think.
Nate Drolet 12:52
Yeah, because it's hard.
Dru Mack 12:53
Yeah, definitely.
Kris Hampton 12:54
We don't want to do hard stuff. We're all about easy stuff Dru.
Dru Mack 12:58
That's fair.
Nate Drolet 12:59
So to move on to the point that you got so excited about Kris is the idea of links expiring.
Kris Hampton 13:04
Yeah. I think this is really interesting. I hadn't thought much about it until till Nate brought it up.
Nate Drolet 13:10
And this was something that like Sam Elias and Matt Pincus had kind of brought to my attention and it's one of those things that like, it makes sense, but I hadn't really thought too much about it. But you know, let's say you do a great link in the fall. You know, let's say it's like a hard boulder problem down low.
Nate Drolet 13:28
uUltimate project, you've been trying it for a while, and hard boulder problem down low to pumpy route up top, and you only get from just above the boulder to the rest of the route and you're like, "Sick." So you come back in the spring and you're like, "Well, I'm ready to redpoint" and so you just start trying the boulder.
Kris Hampton 13:28
Ultimate proj
Kris Hampton 13:29
All you got to do is do the boulder.
Nate Drolet 13:32
Yeah, you just got to do the boulder and you'll do the route. But, you know, maybe you didn't train enough endurance while you were gone. Or maybe you try that boulder for so long that you actually lose the fitness necessary to do the giant link.
Kris Hampton 14:00
Right
Nate Drolet 14:01
So even though it really sucks, it's important every now and then to check back in and repeat those big links.
Kris Hampton 14:06
Yeah, totally.
Nate Drolet 14:07
Because yeah, they do expire.
Kris Hampton 14:11
They expire.
Dru Mack 14:12
Got a coupon for them.
Kris Hampton 14:13
You got a coupon for them?
Dru Mack 14:15
Yeah. And they they do expire.
Nate Drolet 14:17
Gonna see the manager for that one.
Kris Hampton 14:19
I see what you were trying to do, but didn't work.
Dru Mack 14:21
Yeah, I know.
Kris Hampton 14:26
Haha
Nate Drolet 14:26
Haha. Dru is never coming back.
Dru Mack 14:28
Hahaha
Kris Hampton 14:29
This is Dru's first and last Board Meeting
Dru Mack 14:30
Who said I wanted to?
Kris Hampton 14:31
Haha but yeah, I agree. I mean, you have to you have to keep the keep up the fitness. Frankly, endurance comes and goes really fast. If you're just doing the boulder problem at the bottom, and that's all you're working on, then your fitness is probably tanking as we speak.
Dru Mack 14:51
Yeah. And I think like you know, if you you want to make better links, you know, don't just make same links. But then say you're having a bad day, that's not the time to try to be making better links. That's a sign of your links expiring.
Kris Hampton 15:11
Yeah, yeah, I think that's really important to keep in mind, you know,
Dru Mack 15:15
Yeah. Sometimes you have to do what you would say in your mind is a worse link, but on that day, it makes more sense for what you're doing.
Kris Hampton 15:23
Yeah. Or go back to what you've already done, I mean
Dru Mack 15:25
Yeah, exactly.
Kris Hampton 15:26
Repeat your links and get yourself back up to speed. Do you think there's a time period? Any idea what that might be?
Nate Drolet 15:34
I don't know. But I think that does segue us into our next topic.
Kris Hampton 15:41
Well, actually, our next is we're taking a break.
Nate Drolet 15:43
Okay.
Kris Hampton 15:44
Because we need to take a break.
Nate Drolet 15:46
Yeah. Um, is there a time for
Kris Hampton 15:49
Yeah. Is there a time period for like, when do links expire? Is there... what's their shelf life?
Dru Mack 15:54
I saw this, just, you know, I've seen this recently is, you know, if you have a major backslide. If you are,
Kris Hampton 16:04
If you see things degrading
Dru Mack 16:05
Yeah, exactly. If you are not even making the easier links, if you're not making the links that you've made before and that's, you know, especially if that's causing a lot of frustration, that can be really mentally hard for a hard route and that can push you further away from doing it. And that's, to me a huge sign of expiration,
Kris Hampton 16:32
Expiration
Dru Mack 16:33
Yeah, expiration
Kris Hampton 16:34
Move on or go back to training or start making those easier links again. I mean, that I think that's the slowest way. You see your links expiring all in a row pretty quickly, maybe it's time to cut your losses, go do something else and train a little before coming back to the proj.
Nate Drolet 16:52
Yeah, I think it's important point.
Kris Hampton 16:55
Right. Time for a break,
Nate Drolet 16:57
Break.
Dru Mack 16:57
Break.
Kris Hampton 16:58
And that's going to be an official break until tomorrow, when you'll get number two, our fourth in the series about the top five redpoint pitfalls that we see. And, you know, I was going to give you guys a hint as to what number two was, because that's what I did in the previous episode, but it was such a nice clean break. You're just gonna have to wait until tomorrow. You know where to find Dru Mack on the Instagrams @drumack5. You can find Nate @cruxpadwell, you can find us at powercompanyclimbing.com and @PowerCompanyClimbing on all the social medias except for Twitter. I just don't even consider it social media because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.
EPISODE 112:
Kris Hampton 00:31
What's up, everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton. Welcome to Episode 112 of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. Today is our fourth in a five part series of special Board Meetings featuring guest host Dru Mack, Red River legend Dru Mack, who just recently sent his hardest route yet with Pure Imagination. I mean, largely because he sat down and had this conversation with Nate. And I, I'm fairly sure that if he hadn't had this conversation, then he'd still be projecting, so I expect at least half of those...well, I guess a third of those 8a points, Dru. Thank you very much.
Dru Mack 01:18
And we're back. We took a little break to discuss whether Vines were better than Twizzlers or vice versa.
Kris Hampton 01:27
I don't know the difference.
Dru Mack 01:28
Yeah, I know you don't.
Kris Hampton 01:29
They're all the same to me.
Dru Mack 01:30
Yeah. Personally, Twizzlers guy.
Kris Hampton 01:32
And you were talking about like string cheese or something, I don't even know.
Dru Mack 01:34
Well, not cheese, but Twizzler, you know, with the the I think they are cherry flavored, the pull ones.
Kris Hampton 01:40
I don't know what you're talking about.
Nate Drolet 01:41
I'll take pastries over candy any day.
Dru Mack 01:42
Anyways.
Kris Hampton 01:43
Nate, I think you were in the restroom when Johnny Lightning walked in and made the comment of, "Did you guys only get through three bullet points? Wow, you could be training instead of talking about training."
Dru Mack 01:56
Haha
Nate Drolet 01:57
I'm resting, which is just as important.
Kris Hampton 01:58
That's what I said. Johnny Lightning, you're fired.
Dru Mack 02:02
Well, I think you could train while you listen about training.
Kris Hampton 02:06
It's true. That's what I hope you all are doing. We are on number two of our top five redpoint pitfalls. And number two, we sort of started to talk about right before the break and that's that you can spend too much time on a project, so you end up getting weak for all of the rest of rock climbing, except for that specific project. And this is a mega one. It's happened to me quite a few times.
Nate Drolet 02:37
I think it's happened to most of us. Like you develop a very specific fitness or strength and you think you're getting kind of getting stronger and then try something else and you're like, "Oh, no."
Dru Mack 02:46
Well, I think it's easy to feel better on a rock climb, the more time you spend on it, but that's mostly through muscle memory and things like that when you may actually be getting weaker.
Kris Hampton 03:01
Yeah, Dru, I was actually pretty impressed with your ethic a few years ago when you were kind of a cave dweller at the Red, but you were still going out and doing things like No Redemption and you know, some of the harder, more bouldery routes. I think that's a missing, a missing part. I was gonna say missing link, but I can't say links now because we spent so much time talking about links.
Dru Mack 03:27
Abe Lincolns
Kris Hampton 03:28
Yeah, yeah, it's missing Abe Lincoln.
Dru Mack 03:31
Tara might hate us now.
Kris Hampton 03:31
A lot of cave dwellers, lot of people who climb on steep, juggy continuous routes.
Dru Mack 03:37
Maple Canyon. I feel like there's a lot of places, you know, I mean, I just spent six weeks in Rifle,
Nate Drolet 03:43
That place is notorious for over projecting.
Dru Mack 03:46
Yeah. And you know, for me when you're doing the same style, and especially as a sport climber, it's really easy to build a lot of fitness and be in a mode of where your fitness is really good but your power is, has really has really dropped and declined. And and I think you got to take breaks and boulder more and look at where you're weak.
Kris Hampton 04:13
Yeah, I think it's tough too because it certainly seems like you're getting stronger and stronger and stronger, because the moves start to feel easier and easier and easier. And you're, you're like, "Oh, I'm just crushing this crux that I wasn't doing two weeks ago.", but that doesn't necessarily mean you're getting stronger. It just means you've gotten better at those moves.
Dru Mack 04:34
And you can still redpoint routes that way.
Nate Drolet 04:36
Yeah, no, totally
Dru Mack 04:37
You can still find a way to make it work. And a lot of times that is by maybe mixing it up and doing other routes. But you know, you see a lot of climbers who are stuck in one route kind of mode and they're not getting anything else from anything else. Any you know, they're not gaining power or finger strength or anything from other routes, so
Nate Drolet 04:59
Or experience or skill.
Dru Mack 05:01
Yeah
Nate Drolet 05:01
I mean, it I, I've seen it plenty of times people who are amazing at projecting, maybe they climb like a 13b or c that they can do like maybe one a season or one a year. But then they can't onsight 12- consistently
Kris Hampton 05:15
Right
Nate Drolet 05:15
Like just that is beyond them. Like they only know how to project and they've lost the skill of being able to read new moves and climb well, unless it's something that they've spent a lot of time on.
Kris Hampton 05:28
I think I think Dru said something really important just then that you can still get redpoints done this way, so maybe this isn't actually like a pitfall of completing a redpoint. Like this may not hurt your chances of completing that redpoint, but it's going to hurt your chances of becoming a better rock climber.
Dru Mack 05:48
Yeah. And it can ultimately be a pitfall. You can not do a route on a very long trip, because because of this.
Nate Drolet 05:59
Totally, no, I completely agree. And I think, I guess you can do some attrition projecting, just put your head down, smash your head against it until it's done and you can get hard rock climbs done. But it's like, are you getting better? Like, did that progress you further to do more rock climbs?
Dru Mack 06:17
Yeah
Nate Drolet 06:17
In some cases, yes. But a lot of... most times, no. Yeah, so I think that's something that's really important.
Kris Hampton 06:21
Do you think there's a time when it's appropriate to just stay on that project? You know, Eric Horst kind of has the rule of
Nate Drolet 06:35
10:4
Kris Hampton 06:35
10 attempts over
Nate Drolet 06:37
Four days
Kris Hampton 06:38
Four days?
Nate Drolet 06:38
Yeah.
Dru Mack 06:40
That's wack.
Kris Hampton 06:40
Honestly, yeah that rule is not
Nate Drolet 06:42
Thanks Dru. I'm glad I didn't have to just shout, "That's dumb."
Kris Hampton 06:45
I don't think that rule applies to all that many people. It does certainly apply to a very specific situation when you're, like coming up and getting better and better.
Nate Drolet 06:55
Yeah
Kris Hampton 06:55
But most people aren't in that rapid growth all the time.
Dru Mack 07:00
I think that's valuable. But but, you know, like, kinda how we
Nate Drolet 07:03
I think it's valuable but fuck that
Dru Mack 07:08
I mean, I think, I think kind of how we talked about earlier with like, you know, when your links expire, um, that is a big telltale, that, you know, you're, you're spent a lot of time on something.
Kris Hampton 07:23
You've been on it too long. Yeah.
Dru Mack 07:24
And so, you know, when you have spent that much time, if you are seeing big declines in your, in your links, I would, to me, I'd stick it out a little longer. But then after that, you are kind of spending too much time maybe,
Kris Hampton 07:40
Yeah, you at least have to give it a second chance, because you never know if you're having a bad day.
Dru Mack 07:44
Bad day. Yeah.
Nate Drolet 07:45
Yeah, you know, I think it depends on honestly, where you live. Are you on a trip? Are you on your local area? Like if you live in the Frankenjura, shit, I mean, you can have a five go rule, and you can keep doing rock climbs forever.
Kris Hampton 07:59
Right. Totally.
Nate Drolet 08:00
But if you live, if your local crag is like Lion's Head, and you don't have that many climbs, like or, you know, somewhere small, like the Mill Creek
Kris Hampton 08:09
Right
Nate Drolet 08:09
Okay, like, you know, you're going to have to project a little bit longer if you don't have the opportunity to travel. So, you know, it definitely depends on that. Like, there's times where your only option is just putting your head down and projecting. But if you have a lot of options like man, you know, if you live in the Red River Gorge, especially nowadays, where there's so many rock climbs, like, I don't think there's a huge reason to spend a ton of time on a project unless that's just what you really, really enjoy.
Kris Hampton 08:39
Yeah, I'm glad you just gave that caveat because some people just really love projecting and they don't want to do those other things. And if that's the case, I mean, fine if you don't want to expand your bag of tricks, and if you don't want to be a better rock climber, that's up to you.
Dru Mack 08:56
Some people are caught on like a time crunch as well.
Nate Drolet 08:58
Yeah totally.
Dru Mack 08:59
If you do want to do one route, and you only have a limited, you know, amount of time, whether that's a year or two years, or whatever
Nate Drolet 09:08
Lee Smith, he was talking to you directly right now.
Dru Mack 09:11
Haha
Kris Hampton 09:12
I think that's tricky too actually because there's always the question of like, "I'm not quite ready for this route, to send quickly. So is it better for me to go send these other routes first, then come to the project or is it better for me to just dig in and bang my head against the project? "
Kris Hampton 09:33
How can we know? Like we can you do both? Do you have time for that?
Nate Drolet 09:33
Can you do both?
Dru Mack 09:36
Like, like, kind of what? Like how Lee does, which I think is a good balance of, you know, he's a local in the Red and so
Kris Hampton 09:43
And he's got a family.
Dru Mack 09:44
He's got a family
Kris Hampton 09:45
He's got a full time job.
Dru Mack 09:46
Yeah, two very young kids, so he is on a time crunch
Kris Hampton 09:48
Yep, MJ and JM
Dru Mack 09:50
To do the do the route that he wants to do. And so what he does is you know what, while, the summer and sometimes in the winter when conditions just aren't right to do your hardest redpoint ever, uh, go and do other routes during that time that teach you other things. Maybe they give you fitness, and things like that. And I see Lee, kind of zoning in on those things currently.
Kris Hampton 10:12
Yeah, that's good. I'm glad you're doing that Lee.
Nate Drolet 10:14
I think that's actually a really good point. What are y'all's thoughts on spending time in the terrible season on your project, so that you feel great when it's cold?
Kris Hampton 10:26
I am not a fan, but I have done this. I did it on The Madness, which was my second 13c. I spent most of the summer getting higher and higher and higher on The Madness until the very beginning of October, I just, I basically sent it twice in a day. I fell off the last move, and then 15 minutes later sent it.
Dru Mack 10:50
Nobody's ever done that.
Kris Hampton 10:51
No, nobody's ever fallen up there.
Nate Drolet 10:53
So I guess the important question is what happened after you sent The Madness? You know, you had spent all this whole summer like, racking up a bunch of mileage, trying hard and now that it was cold, how did the rest of your fall go?
Kris Hampton 11:05
Well, actually, only because I was a weekend warrior at the time and I was bouldering all week long, and then getting fitness on the weekends, it worked out just fine.
Nate Drolet 11:17
That's not the way this was supposed to go.
Kris Hampton 11:18
I know.
Nate Drolet 11:19
This was a leading question.
Kris Hampton 11:19
I know where you were going with that.
Dru Mack 11:21
But I can answer that maybe a little better, because I would I would truck it, you know, when I.... teenage me spent all my summers in the Red.
Kris Hampton 11:33
You're not a teenager anymore?
Dru Mack 11:34
No.
Nate Drolet 11:34
This was last year, Kris.
Dru Mack 11:35
Ha. Never coming back. No, you know, the time that I had was during the summers.
Nate Drolet 11:43
Totally.
Dru Mack 11:43
I didn't, you know, I didn't have a lot of time and so I wanted to do those Cave routes during the summer. So what I did is hustled through the summer climbing in the Cave.
Nate Drolet 11:53
I remember this.
Dru Mack 11:53
And then when I... the fall came, the weather was so much better and I did a lot of routes faster and I did other routes in the Cave and I started trying, you know, Omaha, which was the one I really wanted to do. And I'm and I got really close to doing it that fall, which
Kris Hampton 12:10
But you didn't do it?
Dru Mack 12:11
I didn't do it. No, no. So maybe it doesn't work
Kris Hampton 12:15
Hahaha
Dru Mack 12:15
But I would say it has, it potentially as as benefits with the with the time that I had. Now being able to travel, I'll never be in Kentucky in the summer again.
Kris Hampton 12:26
Well, I think that's an interesting approach to it as well, because you had a bunch of other routes that were of similar ilk
Dru Mack 12:32
Yeah exactly
Kris Hampton 12:33
Like you could transfer that fitness from one route over to the next over to the next
Dru Mack 12:37
You move your rope bag over 10 feet and you are doing a little bit of a harder one, which that has some value.
Kris Hampton 12:40
Definitely does.
Nate Drolet 12:46
One thing that I'll contribute is, I think it's hard to stay psyched that long. Like,
Kris Hampton 12:50
It really is.
Nate Drolet 12:51
And this is something I see with especially now that I've been out West, because you know, I, as a climber, I pretty much have only lived in like Kentucky or Tennessee. Like when I started climbing, like I pretty much moved shortly after from Texas, out East. And so you get like four good months, a year, maybe five and then you get like, you know, a lot of terrible months. And for a lot of years, I was psyched and I just pushed right through. But man, I had so many of my hardest sends in July or August and then or maybe September when the first like 70 degree day came. And then like when once it was cold, like I was just tired. Like I had been trying to redpoint hard for you know, since the sprig. I'd never gave myself a chance to stop and like man, hard redpointing is exhausting. Like it is mentally exhausting, it is physically and like a lot of times I would just be burnt out by the time like October November hit
Kris Hampton 13:48
Yeah, motivation can tank so quickly and so easily when you've been doing the same thing over and over and over and over,
Dru Mack 13:54
Especially in poor weather, you know, like that's where I would say like trucking it through the summer has negative effects. Maybe you're you think you can learn the moves better or something like that, but ultimately, in bad conditions, you will just see declines in performance and if you're spending all of that time on one thing, it will become, you know, mentally tiring.
Nate Drolet 14:16
It's soul crushing.
Kris Hampton 14:19
Yeah. I think that's probably a good way to describe it, actually.
Nate Drolet 14:22
But yeah, so this is something I see with people, as you know, as a coach, it's something I see with a lot of people out West like in Colorado, Wyoming or people where people can climb year round. They're trying to perform year round, they are trying to send year round.
Kris Hampton 14:22
Yep.
Nate Drolet 14:32
And man if you can, like try hard every week of the year, like you're probably not trying that hard.
Kris Hampton 14:43
Yeah, absolutely.
Nate Drolet 14:44
No other sport competes even every month of the year
Kris Hampton 14:47
Right
Nate Drolet 14:48
Like most sports have maybe like a four month window is a very common amount. And the rest you have like an offseason, you have a training season, you have a build up, like all these different things. Like man, if you're trying your absolute hardest year round, like, you're probably not trying that hard.
Kris Hampton 15:02
Yeah.
15:05
Which is kind of like what, where I'm at currently, and I'm learning the how to balance that is being on the road full time and and finding when I need to make sure I'm taking time off.
Kris Hampton 15:21
Yeah. And I think it's a benefit, actually that you're going back to Kentucky, where the summer is heinous, so that you can just sequester yourself down in Lee's gym or at the gym, you're working at if you're going to be working.
Dru Mack 15:38
Yeah, it's easy for me to be on the road, you know, all year right now and just be climbing and that's amazing. But too much time to get back to the kind of point can also lead to digression in other avenues.
Kris Hampton 15:53
Yeah, I personally,
Dru Mack 15:55
And also rest.
Kris Hampton 15:56
I personally think that you should just stay on the road full time
Dru Mack 16:00
You want to pay me?
Kris Hampton 16:01
So that you don't send 5.15 by the end of 2020, so that Johnny Lightning has to eat a Croc.
Dru Mack 16:07
Yeah
Kris Hampton 16:07
Just yeah, I mean, that's a whole other podcast episode. That's a whole other thing, but
Dru Mack 16:11
Yeah, check out my podcast plug
Kris Hampton 16:13
I'm just saying.
Dru Mack 16:15
Yeah, I agree.
Nate Drolet 16:17
But yeah, so I think year round project thing is not a great thing. There are a few people who can pull it off well, like being on the road full time, like I look at Jonathan Siegrist is maybe the best example of someone who does it well.
Kris Hampton 16:29
And he dedicates a lot of his "performance" time air quotes there to what he considers training as well. So he'll switch to bouldering and even though it looks like performance to the rest of his, it's something he doesn't normally do, so
Nate Drolet 16:42
Totally. And that's like, what I was going to get to is, I feel like the people who
Kris Hampton 16:46
But I got to it first.
Nate Drolet 16:47
You did. Today.
Kris Hampton 16:50
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 16:50
I feel like the people who do it the bat who can climb hard year round the best, but the people who like they kind of naturally go through their own seasons of like, "Okay, I'm going to boulder", "I'm going to try short, hard routes.", "I'm going to try big endurance routes"
Kris Hampton 17:04
Right
Nate Drolet 17:05
"Maybe I'll do some trad or some mountaineering" or whatever, but they keep alternating so that they never get burnt out in one thing.
Kris Hampton 17:11
Yep.
Nate Drolet 17:12
And I think that's the of the people who do it the best, I feel like that's what they end up doing.
Dru Mack 17:16
Yeah, it's like periodized climbing, but like outside.
Kris Hampton 17:20
Yeah, totally.
Nate Drolet 17:21
Yeah. They go through like a natural rotation of different things.
Nate Drolet 17:24
Because if you were just trying 50 meter routes year round...god....one that would suck for your belayer. But But yeah,
Dru Mack 17:24
Of course
Dru Mack 17:33
Haha. My power would be
Nate Drolet 17:35
Terrible.
Dru Mack 17:37
Quite bad.
Nate Drolet 17:38
Yeah. It's just like you would like you would stall out.
Kris Hampton 17:44
So our number one. Are we ready for number one? Johnny Lightning's vver there just staring at his phone because he's ready for number one.
Nate Drolet 17:51
Ooh, I have one last thing on the last one. I'll make it super quick.
Kris Hampton 17:54
You better make it super quick.
Nate Drolet 17:56
We talked about too much time on one single project. But also I think too much time just projecting general.
Kris Hampton 18:01
I agree
Nate Drolet 18:01
I think it's also useful to spend time
Kris Hampton 18:03
And that goes with cycling through the
Nate Drolet 18:05
Exactly so just to
Kris Hampton 18:06
The different kind of lens or whatever
Nate Drolet 18:08
Extend off that like spend time onsighting, spend time try to do things second go. If you don't know how to do things second, go check our
Kris Hampton 18:15
We have a podcast.
Nate Drolet 18:15
We have a podcast on that.
Kris Hampton 18:17
The Art of The Second Go. Episode 97
Nate Drolet 18:19
Oooh. Nailed it. That sounds about right. But yeah, alternate what you do try and do things, try new things in like a two day effort or a three day and then you can come back to projecting.
Kris Hampton 18:31
Yeah
Nate Drolet 18:31
I think that's one of the best things you can do is just kind of go through these little cycles. Because yeah, just spending all your time projecting, like, you lose a lot of value on seeing new moves, like and just a lot of other ways. So I just want to get that in before we move to our number one.
Kris Hampton 18:47
Yeah well, I think I think you should have just done that a little sooner because it leads us in really nicely to number one, which is that a lot of people are a lot of people are doing something, but we're not going to tell you until tomorrow, which is the final part in this five part series of the top five redpoint pitfalls with guest host Dru Mack, and I will see you all tomorrow. Until then, if you're interested, Dru Mack just passed that 10,000 followers on Instagram, which means he gets the cool little swipe up feature which means he's going to be even more annoying on the Instagrams than he already was. Just kidding Dru. You're not annoying at all. We love you. You can find him @drumack5 on the Instagrams. You can find Nate @cruxpadwell, you can find me @PowerCompanyClimbing on the Instagrams, on the Facebooks. Never on the Twitters because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.
EPISODE 113:
Kris Hampton 00:31
What's up everybody, I'm your host, Kris Hampton. Welcome to Episode 113 of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. Today is the final part, Part Five, in a series with guest host, Dru Mack, where Nate, Dru and I sit down and discuss the top five redpoint pitfalls. And just one more time, I want to give a big shout out to Dru Mack and a thank you for number one for sitting down and having this conversation with us. It was so much fun. You're going to hear more of Dru on the podcast whenever we can make that happen. And for number two, sending his hardest mid-range moderate recently. Good job Dru.
Kris Hampton 01:22
Yeah, well, I think I think you should have just done that a little sooner, because it leads us in really nicely to number one, which is that a lot of people are projecting in the wrong range.
Nate Drolet 01:33
Mmm hmmm
Kris Hampton 01:34
They're either way too on the easy side of the spectrum, where they're trying things they can send really quickly, or they're trying things that are way, way, way over their head, and they're dug in deep at the Dark Side for years and years and years, you know, something to that effect. It could be any route, frankly.
Dru Mack 01:56
Yeah
Kris Hampton 01:56
There's people at every damn crag doing that.
Dru Mack 01:58
Yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, that it depends a lot on
Kris Hampton 02:01
I've been there.
Dru Mack 02:01
On the time that you have, whether you're, you know, sometimes you get in over your head, sometimes the route's too hard. Sometimes the route's, you know, you're going to do it really quick. And so finding, you know, that middle range,
Nate Drolet 02:18
Yeah, something that's
Kris Hampton 02:20
Are there ways to know, like are there ways to understand where the sweet spot is for you? And we're talking about projecting here. We're not talking about the second go sends or, you know, third attempts or whatever. We're looking at something that takes....I don't know, how do you define a project you two? Is there, is there a sweet zone for a project? Because I've definitely gone over the limit and I've gone under the limit.
Dru Mack 02:20
Mid-grade
Dru Mack 02:46
Of course. Yeah, yeah yeah
Nate Drolet 02:49
You know, this is a funny topic, because people get really heated over this.
Kris Hampton 02:52
Oh, yeah.
Nate Drolet 02:53
Because the project lovers, I've heard people say
Kris Hampton 02:55
I'm okay with other people being wrong.
Dru Mack 02:56
I just made fun of Eric Horst about this, so you know
Nate Drolet 03:00
Haha
Kris Hampton 03:00
Haha
Dru Mack 03:04
I think you have to find what you're comfortable with. You know, some people are more comfortable spending a lot of days and a lot of tries on one route and some people are comfortable with um ......
Kris Hampton 03:14
I think I'd agree that you find what you're comfortable with and then go the other direction
Nate Drolet 03:18
Growth comes from staying in the comfort zone.
Dru Mack 03:20
Haha Yeah, well, I mean, I think like you want to, you want to you want to push the boundaries of comfort. Be uncomfortable, and try harder than what you think your possible, what is possible for you. But also, you know, it can be really, really, you can burn out easily if you are really just beating your head against one thing. And so, you know, I think for me, it was easy to kind of progressively have longer and longer projects, you know. I did something maybe in a couple of days and then the next one that I chose, maybe it was a little bit more time and then little more time. And then I was just stuck
Kris Hampton 03:57
Was it a little bit harder each time?
Dru Mack 03:58
Yeah, exactly.
Kris Hampton 03:59
So basically you've stayed exactly the same, you've just climbed harder grades?
Dru Mack 04:04
Um.... sure.
Kris Hampton 04:04
Hahaha
Dru Mack 04:06
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 04:09
Yeah, you know, and I think what I see most commonly is that people pick things that are too easy for them.
Dru Mack 04:17
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 04:18
For just if I'm making a blanket statements
Kris Hampton 04:20
Depends on the area you're in
Nate Drolet 04:22
It definitely depends on the area. Oh, for sure. Like in Rifle, exact opposite.
Kris Hampton 04:27
Yeah.
Nate Drolet 04:27
But a lot of people, so for instance, all throughout Colorado, because I work with a lot of people there and you know, they can just go day cragging anywhere. Like they have just a ton of different areas they can climb at so they go to new place every single day. They just spend a single day trying something and then move on. And that's, you know, obviously that is like that's way too low of a range. Like there you're not going to get a ton of benefit, like you will to a degree, but after a certain point. It's like you can just keep doing the same thing forever and like, you're not going to get any better from it.
Dru Mack 05:03
Yeah, and I see that kind of with some more beginner climbers that I've worked with who, you know, haven't spent that much time on a route. They pick something that, you know, we kind of want instant gratification, we want that kind of that feel good of clipping chains. And kind of that gets back into that comfort zone of like, "This one's going to take me a little longer" is quite good. And grades are a great, you know, indicator of that. You know, picking a harder grade can ultimately make you spend more time on a route.
Nate Drolet 05:38
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 05:40
Yeah, I think that you said something really important Dru early on, that I initially sort of disagreed with and then we sort of came to an agreement that the comfort level of what your... of the range that you're climbing in should be a gauge for this. You know, if you're really good at doing the second day, or the second try send or the third try send, then dig into something a little longer. If you're really good at three year projects, try to find something a little shorter, and see how you do on it. If you can turn, you know, if you are three year projecting 12d, and you can turn a 12b also into a three year project, then there's a problem there, you know, and that's something that you should discover. It's something that you should explore
Nate Drolet 06:32
Because you don't have that many years.
Dru Mack 06:33
Ha. And along with that
Dru Mack 06:35
The comfort is also being within a certain style as well. You know, if you're just comfortable with steep jugs
Kris Hampton 06:35
I got all the years.
Kris Hampton 06:46
Yeah, style has a range as well
Dru Mack 06:48
Style has a range as well.
Nate Drolet 06:50
Yeah, there's there's a reason Smith Rock is empty.
Kris Hampton 06:52
Haha
Dru Mack 06:54
Ha. There's a reason I haven't been there.
Nate Drolet 06:55
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 06:56
And it's, you know, it's not necessarily because it's not good or not important, because I actually think it is important. I mean, it was, you know, to reference back to your podcast that we did earlier Dru, that was on your list that J Star gave you. I do think it's important to learn those styles. It's just not the popular thing. It's not easy to climb there.
Dru Mack 07:20
Yeah. And that kind of comes into where you know, my list of other like 5.10s, 5.11s, 5.12s, and 5.13s that we did, you know, of important routes to do in the Red. And those aren't just routes that everybody's done and they are the most classic, but they may be the ones that help you improve as a rock climber the most.
Kris Hampton 07:39
Yeah, yeah.
Nate Drolet 07:40
Yeah, that's important. Like, I mean, I think, and that's when we talk about range, like, it's worth going beyond just, "Okay, I've climbed 14a, I need to find a 14b", or something like that. It's like, man, there are 13bs that are still really hard. Like, it's like, "Oh okay, this is like a one move climb on monos" like, that's going to be very difficult, even though like this, as far as numerically, is not like something that's very challenging for me. Like, it's something that I still need to do.
Kris Hampton 08:14
I thought she was about to pass out those Vines to everybody, but really, she just has a handful of eight of them she's gonna eat by herself. She gave one to two to Johnny, one to Dru and then walked away with the rest.
Dru Mack 08:27
That did happen.
Kris Hampton 08:29
Haha
Dru Mack 08:30
Yeah, I think you know, I think a lot of times, it's important to gain other perspectives and that can also be within, you know, maybe switching the discipline even of your project. That can like teach you something else, whether it's doing more boulders or maybe trying to trad climb.
Nate Drolet 08:30
Cold.
Kris Hampton 08:50
Slabs in Vedauwoo.
Dru Mack 08:51
Slabs.
Nate Drolet 08:52
No.
Dru Mack 08:52
Yeah. Never again.
Nate Drolet 08:55
So, Kris, you talked on a good point, like, how do you find a good range?
Kris Hampton 08:59
I think that's really important to know. I think that you have to check your own comfort level. I think that's really what it comes down to. If you're like, "This is my jam", then you need to move out of that range, just a little bit. I wouldn't take it too far. You know, if you're, if you're only comfortable in the three or four attempt zone, I wouldn't immediately jump into a two year project.
Nate Drolet 09:22
Woof
Dru Mack 09:23
And this is something I see in the gym a lot is people who just go and do the same kind of style and the same kind of grade all the time.
Kris Hampton 09:30
Yeah.
Dru Mack 09:30
And and, and it's so easy to get out of that mode in the gym, because there's so much to do, of all grade ranges and, and styles. If you're uncomfortable with steep caves, don't just spend the whole day in a steep cave. Maybe just try once and then the next time try twice.
Kris Hampton 09:48
Yeah.
Dru Mack 09:48
And you know, you can you can build with changing your perspective. It doesn't have to be something that happens all at once.
Kris Hampton 09:55
Yeah, totally. I think you have to take that to the outs the the outdoors, just the same.
Dru Mack 09:59
Of course.
Kris Hampton 09:59
You know, and across, across all of those lines, these parameters, it has to be done that way with grade, it has to be done that way with style, it has to be done that way with discipline. I think all of these things, you have to just slowly push that comfort bubble, a little bigger and a little bigger, until you're comfortable in all the zones of projecting, from onsighting to, you know, multi year mega project.
Nate Drolet 10:25
No.
Kris Hampton 10:26
Haha. Nate's just pushing against it. He doesn't want it.
Nate Drolet 10:31
Ugh...I don't like multi year mega projects. But I think
Dru Mack 10:35
You have not reached your limit. You are capable of a lot more than you've done.
Kris Hampton 10:40
Mmm hmm, mm hmm.
Nate Drolet 10:41
I don't know.
Kris Hampton 10:42
You're fired.
Nate Drolet 10:43
Haha. You can't just keep saying that to everyone, just because Lana's here.
Kris Hampton 10:47
That's my new thing. I'm just firing everyone now.
Dru Mack 10:49
I've never been fired.
Kris Hampton 10:50
You're fired.
Dru Mack 10:51
I've never worked, though.
Kris Hampton 10:52
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 10:57
So is there a time when it's important to stay in one range? Like, are there any situations where it's just you'd be like, "Hey, like, don't branch out"?
Dru Mack 11:10
I think you can, I think I think it's important to solidify your base. I think I think it's important, especially in plateaus. People want to beat their head on something, but I think at that point, maybe it is better to do more of easier and less of more kind of whatever that saying is kind of thing. Words.
Kris Hampton 11:31
You just really confused me Dru.
Nate Drolet 11:34
Same
Kris Hampton 11:34
At first I was gonna be like, "Wow, you're really smart."
Kris Hampton 11:36
And now, I don't know what the hell you just said.
Dru Mack 11:36
Haha
Nate Drolet 11:39
Quick, let's take the credit.
Kris Hampton 11:41
Haha
Nate Drolet 11:42
So what I think he was saying was....Yeah, no, I totally agree.
Dru Mack 11:46
Yeah, I mean, you know, sometimes, if you're trying to break into 12a, maybe it's best that you do more 11bs and cs. And yeah, if you if you're really, whether struggling mentally with a project or, you know, whatever the case may be.
Kris Hampton 12:03
I think if you see yourself hitting that wall, whether we talked about earlier, where you know, your links are expiring or whatever it might be, that your performance is sliding downward, then it's time to go back to the areas that you feel like you've already solidified, and just do more of it.
Nate Drolet 12:25
Yeah, no, I think that's a good point. So is that what you would recommend? Let's say, there's someone who feels like they've just been like plateaued at, you know, mid 5.13. They can do it after a handful of days, but if they try anything harder, it's seems heinous for them and they feel like they've been stuck there for years.
Dru Mack 12:46
Can we switch that to 5.11?
Kris Hampton 12:49
Let's switch to 5.11. So someone tries 5.11. It takes them a handful of days. They've been stuck at that situation for years.
Nate Drolet 12:49
Sure, yeah.
Nate Drolet 12:58
Yeah
Kris Hampton 12:59
I would first want to know what it is about trying harder routes that stops them. I would want to dig into that process. Are are they just turning back? Did they just get frustrated and quit? Are they digging into the tactics of it? Are they changing tactics? Are they trying different things or are they just banging their head against the wall over and over and over? Like, where's where's the breakdown that's not letting,not allowing that progression to happen? That's what I try to figure out first.
Dru Mack 13:30
I think more times than not I see that with being comfortable in one range and then you get stuck in that range.
Kris Hampton 13:37
That's a good point Dru.
Nate Drolet 13:38
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 13:39
Yeah. And I think that, especially if it's like, let's take the Red for example, because we're all so familiar with the Red. More more than that, I'm just really familiar with the Red and you guys are gonna have to deal with that.
Nate Drolet 13:51
Playing the hits.
Kris Hampton 13:52
Yeah, I'm just not as familiar with every other place. But let's say someone's really good at you know, overhanging juggy climbing, but their ultimate project is to do
Dru Mack 14:11
Ro Shampo
Dru Mack 14:12
Ooof. Wow.
Kris Hampton 14:12
Hakuna Matata.
Nate Drolet 14:15
Polar opposite. Swing and a miss.
Kris Hampton 14:18
Say they really want to do Hakuna Matata but they came up in the Red climbing overhanging juggy climbs. They might be able to do every overhanging 11d in the Red.
Dru Mack 14:28
Yeah. But a techy 12a
Kris Hampton 14:31
But Hakuna Matata's gonna feel impossible to them.
Dru Mack 14:33
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 14:34
So staying in the same grade range, but switching styles becomes really important at that point, and you need to drop the grade a little bit over your project level. Maybe down to 11b, 11c, learn to climb that vertical stuff.
Nate Drolet 14:49
Yeah, exactly.
Kris Hampton 14:49
Before you get back to Hakuna Matata.
Nate Drolet 14:52
I was just having this discussion with someone I work with the other day, and that they have a very great pyramid of identical rock climbs.
Kris Hampton 15:00
Right
Nate Drolet 15:00
More or less. They are like, "Okay I've done a bunch of 12a, bunch of 12b, decent number of C and a couple Ds." But if you look, it's like they're all at the Red River Gorge, all almost the exact same style. And like in the Red, for anyone who hasn't been there,
Kris Hampton 15:14
Are you talking about my pyramid?
Nate Drolet 15:15
Haha Yeah. Yes. No, you've actually done a great job of climbing bouldery things more recently.
Kris Hampton 15:22
I'm trying.
Nate Drolet 15:23
Yeah, but the thing is, like, if you're a fit enough to do an endurance 13a in the Red, you can probably do 60% of the 13as fairly quickly in the Red, because they're all fitness based. So even if you build a wide pyramid, they you can have a wide grade pyramid, but have a very narrow...
Dru Mack 15:44
Style pyramid.
Nate Drolet 15:45
Style pyramid. Thank you, Dru.
Dru Mack 15:46
Yeah, gotcha.
Nate Drolet 15:48
So I think that's something worth keeping in mind is like, you know, you can just look at your 8a scorecard, because we all have them, and be like, "Oh, man, I've got a bitchin' pyramid. It's super wide." But if you actually look, it's like, "Oh actually, these are all just like crimp faces" and I don't have like, I'm not actually that good at like steep overhang or, like, all of these are like super short, bouldery routes or monstrous endurance routes that I can just drop knee or kneebar my way through. So I think the style specificity is really important to keep in mind.
Kris Hampton 16:22
Totally. You need a job Dru? I'm just gonna fire Nate and you can have a job because you said that really succinctly and then Nate just drew it out forever and ever.
Dru Mack 16:34
Hahaha
Nate Drolet 16:34
I'm sorry, were you talking? I was just waiting for my next turn to speak.
Kris Hampton 16:37
Hahaha
Dru Mack 16:37
Hahaha
Kris Hampton 16:41
All right, I think that's a good as place to any.....good a place as any. Wow that was really hard to say. That's a good a place as any to wrap things up. We've been going for like an hour and a half at this point.
Nate Drolet 16:53
So, we want to... do we want to relist just the top five real quick?
Kris Hampton 16:56
We should definitely talk about what those are. Yeah, okay, let's just list them out. Go for it.
Nate Drolet 17:00
So number five, trying to send too early or too late. Number four, being closed minded with bad beta. Number three, not working the correct links or not working to do good links. Number two, is spending too much time on a project or spending too much time projecting. And lastly, is working in the wrong range, whether this is grade or by style.
Kris Hampton 17:27
You said that really nicely. You're hired again. Dru sorry. Jeez, all right. Dru, where can people find you online?
Dru Mack 17:35
You can follow me on Instagram. Drumack5. Yeah, D-R-U-M-A-C-K. Bop!
Kris Hampton 17:43
And are you on the Facebook's?
Dru Mack 17:44
Yeah, you can go go see me there. I've got a new website coming, lots of lots of new things.
Kris Hampton 17:49
What's your website going to be? Do you know?
Dru Mack 17:51
Uh... we'll wait.
Kris Hampton 17:53
Okay we don't we don't quite know what it is yet, so don't just go straight to drumack.com. It could be a porn site.
Dru Mack 17:58
It's a truck website. I've looked.
Kris Hampton 17:59
Hahaha. It's a truck website?Hahaha. So don't go to drumack.com because that's that's a truck website.
Dru Mack 18:06
Unless you need to rent a truck
Kris Hampton 18:07
Yeah, if you're interested in trucks,
Dru Mack 18:07
Not Mack trucks
Kris Hampton 18:07
Yeah, yeah, go do it.
Nate Drolet 18:11
That's funny that they're not Mack Trucks.
Dru Mack 18:13
Yeah, I don't know. It's a weird, weird thing.
Kris Hampton 18:15
Yeah, you can definitely find us as well on the Instagrams and on the Facebooks, and on the Pinterest website, whatever happens over there @PowerCompanyClimbing. You can find us at PowerCompanyClimbing.com including all of our training programs, ebooks, Proven Plans, Custom Plans, and this podcast.
Nate Drolet 18:36
And on the Patreon
Kris Hampton 18:37
You should be sharing this podcast with all your friends and checking out the Patreon. We've got... I think we're up to like 30 some episodes over there as well.
Nate Drolet 18:45
Nice
Kris Hampton 18:45
So check that out. You can shout about us all day long on the Twitter if you would like to, but you will not find us on the Twitter's because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.
Everybody’s favorite Red River climber Dru Mack is back in the building, and this time we're talking about something he knows all too well: endurance climbing.