Episode 43: Jonah Durham is a Not So Average Joe

Jonah Durham has been very aptly described as "the sweetest kid ever." You could also call him a crusher. Either way, nobody that has spent time with Jonah will argue.  

During my recent nine month road trip I ran into Jonah at several climbing areas. We recorded a conversation while in Hueco Tanks this winter after I noticed an interesting contrast of sorts in Jonah's climbing.  A few weeks ago in Lander, Jonah sat down with me again for an update on how his own, much longer road trip is going, and to discuss exactly what it is that makes him a Not So Average Joe.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:01

I'll have these on for another minute or two just to make sure what's going on is working. And

Jonah Durham  00:06

So you can hear us talking in the headphones?

Kris Hampton  00:09

Yeah. And I can put you in headphones too, but then it's ridiculous.

Jonah Durham  00:14

It looks like a bunch of astronauts hanging out in the middle of nowhere. 

Kris Hampton  00:18

We are kinda astronauts, hanging out in the middle of nowhere.

Jonah Durham  00:20

 Pretty much 

Kris Hampton  00:21

That's what rock climbing is. It's space exploration. This episode of The Power Company Podcast is brought to you by you. It's all about you, made specifically for you, and kept sponsor free because of you. Thanks for listening, and for helping us build this.

Jonah Durham  00:44

I mean, I'm at a point in my life that I've been really excited about since I was 14, 13. And I'm kind of living my dream right now, so it's pretty easy to be motivated doing what I'm doing.

Kris Hampton  01:12

What's up everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton. Welcome to the Not So Average series from The Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. In this series, we talked to the regular folks out there, you know, the people just like you. And we try to find out why you're not so average. In this episode, we're talking with Jonah Durham, who my friend Johnny Lightning very aptly described as "the sweetest kid ever". Jonah's on a year plus long road trip right out of high school, and we bumped into each other and four or five different climbing areas around the country. And in talking with him, I discovered that he jumped from V8 to doing quick V10s and flashing V9. And from 12b to 13a, and that happened in a relatively short time. And while that might bring to mind an image of some fiercely driven, square jawed athlete, it's not Jonah at all. He's extremely calm, kind and always, always just plain joyful. And since that seemed to fly in the face of what I expected, I set out to find out really, who is Jonah?

Kris Hampton  02:26

Who is Jonah? My name is Jonah Durham. I was born in North Carolina, but I moved to Washington State when I was five years old. I call Washington State my home. Very much so, a Pacific Northwesterner. I'm 19 now and currently living in my car. 

Kris Hampton  02:46

And we all know kids who are chasing climbing and living out of their cars and and as you all know, who've been listening, I've I've been following this path myself and I kept bumping into Jonah in all sorts of places across the US. And the first place I encountered him was the Red River Gorge, where I met him with his dad actually, who was also there climbing. And not having much of a family background myself, I found it really interesting. And I was curious to know how it got started.

Jonah Durham  03:16

Let's see I started climbing when I was about 12 years old. So seven years,

Kris Hampton  03:21

Dad get you into it?

Jonah Durham  03:23

It was actually part of a PE program through my school. I went to a Montessori school. And so we kind of did like all sorts of stuff for PE and one of them was rock climbing. And me and my best friend at the time, got really into it. And I got hooked pretty much a traditional started in the gym kid and fell in love with it. 

Kris Hampton  03:40

Oh, that's cool. So did your dad start climbing after you then? 

Jonah Durham  03:44

He did it when he was in his 20s. He had my brother when he was really young. He had my brother when he was 20 years old, so he kinda had to drop having fun and yeah, become a father. So he refound it when I did. I came home one day and said, Dad, climbing is awesome. You should get back into it. He said, Well, I used to do that and broke out his EBs that he had from a long time ago.

Kris Hampton  04:06

The EBs, nice

Jonah Durham  04:07

Yeah, stylin'.

Kris Hampton  04:08

 You're dating your dad right now. 

Jonah Durham  04:10

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  04:12

And obviously Jonah and his dad John didn't have to give up having fun for very long. When I met them, John had come to Kentucky to climb with Jonah for his birthday and John was living in the tent, Jonah in his truck and Jonah would get up and make breakfast every morning in this great role reversal. And at night they would banter about trading their years on the road. And as an open minded father of a 19 year old myself, it made me smile to see a parent who not only accepted but participated in their 19 year old's passion. And you know, but I only have the one daughter and I knew Jonah had a brother.

Jonah Durham  04:51

I do, I have an older brother.

Kris Hampton  04:53

Does he climb?

Jonah Durham  04:54

He got, he, his big thing is surfing and mountain biking. Right now he's a surfer. He lives on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. He went through a little spurt where he got into climbing just when I got into it and we'd go top roping out this little sandstone choss cliff with my dad and it was pretty fun. I've tried to get him into doing it some more. Next time I see him, I'm gonna throw some climbing shoes at him and make him climb, because I think he'd enjoy it.

Kris Hampton  05:25

But surfing is his climbing,

Jonah Durham  05:27

Surfing is his climbing.

Kris Hampton  05:28

 Did he move to North Carolina just for the surfing?

Jonah Durham  05:31

He did. Yeah. So he actually moved there for kiteboarding. He got a job working at a surfing and kiteboarding company. And he's been there for maybe three or four years now. 

Kris Hampton  05:43

How much older is he?

Jonah Durham  05:45

 Seven years.

Kris Hampton  05:46

Okay, so so he kind of set up a path, you know, that that mom and dad were could see and we're totally okay with. 

Jonah Durham  05:55

Yeah, totally. 

Kris Hampton  05:56

You know, he's traveling around for surfing. 

Jonah Durham  05:59

Yeah and loving it too.

Kris Hampton  06:01

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Does he? Is he married? Does he have kids?

Jonah Durham  06:04

He is not married. Does not have kids. He has a girlfriend he's been with for awhile.

Kris Hampton  06:08

You both living the bachelor life?

Jonah Durham  06:10

Yep the bachelor life. Very much so. I've never really thought about my life as the bachelor life.

Kris Hampton  06:17

Well, you did start this road trip with strippers in Vegas right?

Jonah Durham  06:19

Yeah, Vegas. Strippers in Vegas. Definitely.

Kris Hampton  06:23

Yeah. I can't even imagine what that would look like. Jonah with strippers.

Jonah Durham  06:27

I'd be really uncomfortable. You've seen how red my face gets. Imagine me around strippers. I'd be very uncomfortable. I guess you could say I was kind of a dork in high school. I took school seriously. Pretty much just

Kris Hampton  06:51

Chicks dig nerds and dorks now so.

Jonah Durham  06:53

 Do they?Do they really?

Kris Hampton  06:55

Yeah.

Jonah Durham  06:55

 Oh, man. That hasn't caught on yet. We'll see. 

Kris Hampton  06:58

Oh, it will.

Jonah Durham  06:59

 Chicks dig the nerds.

Kris Hampton  07:01

Yep. After this podcast comes out, you're just gonna get a flood of women.

Jonah Durham  07:05

Oh no. 

Kris Hampton  07:07

Fame's gonna hit you and

Jonah Durham  07:09

 Oh, no.

Kris Hampton  07:09

All the women are gonna come calling.

Jonah Durham  07:11

 You think so? 

Kris Hampton  07:12

Yeah, I do.

Jonah Durham  07:13

 Sounds awful.

Kris Hampton  07:16

 No, I think actually, I think your energy like draws draws people in. Like you were saying about Annalissa, how people just want to be around her because she's so positive and happy.

Jonah Durham  07:25

Yeah, she's awesome.

Kris Hampton  07:26

I think you're the same way you know, and I saw that in the Red hanging out with your dad. I I don't come from a tight family. In fact, I would call it the absence of family. 

Jonah Durham  07:38

Sure, sure. 

Kris Hampton  07:39

And so watching you hang out with your dad I thought was super super cool. Because you guys seem like you just got along like friends. 

Jonah Durham  07:47

Yeah, we do.

Kris Hampton  07:48

 You know. See the bee is drawn to you right now too.

Jonah Durham  07:52

 The bee is just attacking my microphone viciously. The green shirt. I shouldn't have worn the green shirt.

Kris Hampton  07:58

It's because you look like a flower Jonah.

Jonah Durham  07:59

Yep. Oh my gosh.

Kris Hampton  08:03

No, I think your energy is good. And the way that you you and your dad bantered back and forth like friends was super cool. Has it, have you always had that relationship with him? Did that come about through climbing or was it just that always that way?

Jonah Durham  08:15

I mean, we've we've always had a really close knit relationship, we would, and the climbing definitely helped solidify that. Like we'd go on climbing trips together. We went to Bishop every spring break from the eighth grade until I graduated high school. We'd go to Squamish. I'm from Bellingham, Washington, which is really close to Squamish. We'd go there every summer and whenever we could really. Yeah, I mean, my dad, to certain degree, like I had obviously had like best friends and stuff, but he was one of my best friends, you know? He's my travel partner and climbing partner and he's also my teacher. 

Kris Hampton  08:47

He seems like a cool guy, too. 

Jonah Durham  08:48

He is a cool guy. He's a really cool guy. Yeah, I have a great dad.

Kris Hampton  08:56

And like I mentioned, you know, as a parent, who didn't really have parental role models, I'm always looking to see what successful parents are doing. And, you know, I admired that, that John was Jonah's friend and role model but didn't try to keep Jonah trapped there and, you know, really supported this road trip that he was on and the more I talked to Jonah about the road trip, the more interesting it became.

Jonah Durham  09:26

Well, pretty much when I started climbing, I saw all the videos and photos of places like Bishop, Hueco Tanks, Yosemite, the Red and just really fell in love with climbing through photos and videos and then of course, climbing itself. I'd go on climbing road trips with my dad and I just always thought it would be cool if I could do it longer. You know, like the end of the road trip was always so like bittersweet because I wanted to stay longer. 

Kris Hampton  09:52

Sure. 

Jonah Durham  09:53

And so I started saving up money. When I was a freshman in high school, I worked through high school at a climbing gym. Really didn't spend any money. And just it was something I'd always wanted to do. It's kind of like the a pilgrimage to a certain degree. I guess I've just yeah, traveling around the United States and seeing as many climbing areas as I want, staying at them as long as I wanted to.

Kris Hampton  10:15

So you had the long term plan, you started saving freshman year?

Jonah Durham  10:19

I did. Yeah. I've always been kind of a, I like to have goals and work towards them. And that was just something that was really easy to motivate for. Just thinking about saving money and seeing all the climbing videos helped even more because it was motivation to save money, I guess. Yeah,

Kris Hampton  10:35

I think it's pretty cool that you were a high school kid who had this four year plan, basically, because most high school kids can't keep a plan for a week.

Jonah Durham  10:48

Yep. Well I still couldn't keep a plan for a week but this was a little different because it had to do with climbing, something I'm really passionate about.

Kris Hampton  10:55

Yeah, an obsession. Yeah, that's pretty cool, man. So did you like plot out the whole trip through this whole four years? Or were you just like, I'm gonna save money. And then I'm just gonna go wherever the hell I feel like?

Jonah Durham  11:08

I kind of had like itineraries for where I wanted to go. So I'd have like, Itinerary A, Itinerary B, and whatever. And they were different climbing trips. One of them started in Squamish. One of them started in Smith Rock. 

Kris Hampton  11:22

Yeah. 

Jonah Durham  11:23

The one I ended up doing started in Wyoming and then Colorado, but it was definitely something I planned ahead for maybe a little too much. Something I realized, when I started living out of my car, is that I don't have to, like, follow my plan exactly. Because I'd be like, I'm gonna stay in Rocky Mountain National Park for 13 days, and then I'm going to drive for two and a half days or whatever, and go to Arkansas, you know, whereas I kind of made the realization that traveling and living out of your car needs to be a little more like free form. 

Kris Hampton  11:52

Yeah, for sure. Kind of just go with the flow.

Jonah Durham  11:56

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  11:56

Did you have other friends who, at any point were talking about going on the road trip with you? Or was it always just you solo?

Jonah Durham  12:03

I had friends that were really psyched on the idea and said they'd want to visit me but it was definitely something I wanted to do by myself. I wanted to do it solo. Yeah, that was important to me. After high school, I knew that I wanted to take a gap year before going to college. And I just thought it seemed like a great way to fill my time to travel and see the US and experience new places and meet new people and climb everywhere. 

Kris Hampton  12:26

Yeah. How did how was dad with it? 

Jonah Durham  12:29

Dad was psyched.

Kris Hampton  12:31

Yeah, I bet.

Jonah Durham  12:31

  Dad is, really my both my parents were really excited about it. They love the idea. Really supportive parents. I worked hard in school so there wasn't anything that I need to like make up for I guess. Yeah, I kind of thought I deserved it. I thought I deserved it. Loving it now too. It's a lot of fun.

Kris Hampton  12:52

So before we get too deep into this and before I tell you guys why I think Jonah is Not So Average, let's let's take a look at the details of this crazy road trip that Jonah is on.

Jonah Durham  13:09

So I moved into my car and started kind of, I guess you could say full time dirt bagging on July 9. My first stop was a friend's bachelor party I think we talked about this in the last podcast. There were no strippers I want to make that clear. 

Kris Hampton  13:23

All the all the strippers were in Vegas.

Jonah Durham  13:24

Oh god there were yeah. And then, no, none of that happened. And then from there, I went actually to Lander for the Climbers Festival. 

Kris Hampton  13:34

Yep.

Jonah Durham  13:34

 And then Rocky Mountain National Park for gosh, like two and a half months. I got to meet some of the climbing rangers. Had a really good time with them. Kind of got an introduction into trad climbing. Can I say names on this podcast? 

Kris Hampton  13:49

Yeah yeah,

Jonah Durham  13:49

I can? Phil magistro is the climbing Ranger at Rocky Mountain National Park. He's an awesome guy. He taught me a lot about trad climbing. That was kind of an eye opening experience. Because before that, I mean, I've been climbing for seven years now and almost all of that has been bouldering. So it was really interesting and awesome to kind of get a taste of what trad climbing is like. And then I left October 2 like early October and went to Arkansas to Horseshoe Canyon Ranch. I was there for over a week and then Arkansas to the Red. And here's where things get tricky because I did kind of like a lot of bouncing back in the South. I climbed in the rRd for a little bit  to Little Rock City back to the Red for two weeks. And then I went to North Carolina and kind of stuck around there until Christmas and then kind of spent the winter months bouldering around South. Yeah, January I drove to Hueco for just over a month and then I went to Flagstaff, Arizona and did some college stuff. I'm going to be attending Northern Arizona University in January.

Kris Hampton  14:02

 Yep. 

Jonah Durham  14:03

And then I went to Red Rocks for two to three weeks. From there I went to Bishop, over a month in Bishop. Left Bishop and went to Smith Rocks. And then when I was in Oregon, I found out that I actually had to go back home and take the SAT, which was kind of a weird funky pitstop from the trip. 

Kris Hampton  15:12

Yeah I bet, like, oh, here I am. I'm gonna take a test. Yeah, see you later.

Jonah Durham  15:16

 Slap some textbooks down. Switch from just climbing my brains out to academics, so yeah, weird. But I took the SAT, I think it went well. I studied hard. And then I kind of repeated the beginning of my trip. I went to Leavenworth. I was there for four days. And now I'm back in Lander and I'm gonna go back to Rocky Mountain National Park.

Kris Hampton  15:42

When you meet someone like this, who seems to have this charmed, I hesitate to use the word easy, but that's how it seems, life ahead of them. You know, and you hear that? Going back home to take the SAT was a, you know, a hiccup in a road trip? That seems a little too good to be true. So I asked Jonah, you know, were there times that were a little frustrating because I don't believe that it's the ability to just coast along in a perfect life that makes a great human being. I think it's how they react to adversity. 

Jonah Durham  16:26

You know, I actually get this question pretty often when people are asking me about traveling and living out of your car. It's always been something I really wanted to do. But before I went on the trip, I kind of like told myself, I said, like Jonah, there's going to be hard times when you're traveling. And to be honest, I've been really surprised with how little I've kind of struggled. But one day definitely does come to mind. That was the most stressful day traveling and living out of my car. I was driving from Alabama to Texas, and there was a winter storm in Dallas. I got in a car accident. Luckily without not with any other cars, but I was going on to an entrance ramp over a bridge. There's some ice on the bridge. My car definitely isn't the best all-terrain vehicle. It's a four cylinder rear wheel drive, two wheel drive Tacoma. So I hit some ice, lost control. blew out my like front bumper and my car spun around. I had just bought groceries and the back of my tailgate blew open. There's groceries all over.

Kris Hampton  17:37

 Whole Foods all over the expressway.

Jonah Durham  17:39

 Yeah, right. I can't afford that. I wish. No way man. Yeah, so groceries are all over. I'm running around the freeway and my sleeping bag like blew out of my car. So I run out on the street trying to get my sleeping bag, get all these groceries. It's freezing out like 15 degrees. A guy got out of his car and helped me push my car off the road. It won't turn on. I'm just like running off of adrenaline super stressful. I've never been in a car accident before. So I'm just sitting in my car it won't turn on. Eventually it does. You know thank god my car is working. So then I jumped back in my car. I start driving really slowly. My hazard lights are on. That night like there was something like 80 plus accidents. A couple people died. It was awful. And so I get back in my car, I'm driving and I hear this flapping noise by my wheels. So I stopped the car. And like there's a like a bit of plastic by your tires that prevents like mud from bumping up, that piece had ripped off and was like hitting my tires, so I cut it off. Jump back in my car. Pull over to the like the closest gas station I can. And then I call my dad. And then I just start bawling. I mean it all caught up to me. I was like "I almost died, Dad!"

Kris Hampton  18:53

How did your dad react?

Jonah Durham  18:54

Oh, he was super chill. Like you're okay. It was exactly what I needed to hear. And then I went to bed at a gas station. It was freezing out. So yeah, that was definitely the the most stressful and kind of chaotic day of the trip. Yeah, but other than that, I mean, really nothing comes to mind. You know, like a few times like I popped a tire. I almost ran out of gas when I was traveling. But like, I haven't really been encountered by sketchy people or bad accidents.

Kris Hampton  19:25

Why do you think it is that? It just all seems pretty easy to you?

Jonah Durham  19:31

I don't know. I mean, I mean, that part of it could be that the people I surround myself with you know, I find that climbers, for the most part are really genuine and nice people. And I'm going to climbing areas and climbing crags surrounding myself with positive people. So that makes it really easy, but in terms of just like accidents and not getting an accident and weird things happen. I mean, there is an element of luck. You know, I've just like sure thought about it. Man. My trip has been going so smoothly like I had planned and expected for more kinda like hiccups to happen, but they just haven't.

Kris Hampton  20:01

So yeah, well, you know, I bet if we really, really dug in, I bet we'd find a bunch of things that other people would react differently to sure, and would end up super stressed about. And, you know, my, my armchair therapist take over here is that your dad plays such a huge role in that, you know, he talked about how you and your dad are great friends and that you've learned so much from him. And you call him in the middle of this horrendous moment. And he's just like, you're fine, dude. Yeah, you know, dad's got, you've got the same disposition that your dad does. 

Jonah Durham  20:41

Sure.

Kris Hampton  20:42

 And I think carrying that into this whole trip, and just allowing yourself to go with the flow and see, see that you're in a good situation and and realize that you're there all the time, like you obviously do sidesteps a lot of those potential stressors.

Jonah Durham  21:04

Sure. And like the small things that some people may get stressed about, if you think about it, it's really not a big deal.

Kris Hampton  21:12

And you'll notice that when I asked Jonah about a frustrating moment on his road trip, you know, he didn't mention climbing. He didn't mention failing on any projects, or, you know, being bummed that he had to walk away from something. And I think that's a really mature way to approach climbing. And it didn't surprise me that that was Jonah's response. Because I had noticed some things about his climbing while out climbing with him, you know, a contrast of sorts. That I think is what makes Jonah so good at what he's doing. And after this break, I'll tell you exactly why I think Jonah Durham is a Not So Average Joe. Hey, everybody, Kris here, I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Since this thing became officially official, I've basically been obsessed. I've got dozens of episodes waiting to go out. And I'm constantly recording new conversations. I want to continue putting this level of energy into it. And you all can help. We've created a page at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast where you can help support what we're building. In return, even for as little as $1 per month, you'll get access to the brand new We Scream Like Eagles podcast, which includes tips from our guests, extra conversations about hot topics and Q&A with your questions posed to our guests. If you think it's worth more than $1 a month, we've got other rewards available on top of the bonus episodes, like stickers, ebooks, t shirts and training plans. So if you've been considering pitching in, now's the time. That's patreon.com/powecompanypodcast. Thanks a ton. And back to the show. Welcome back to the Not So Average Series from The Power Company Podcast. Today we're talking with Jonah Durham, a 19 year old from Bellingham, Washington. And you know, Jonah is one of those guys who's very happy go lucky and everyone wants to be around him. And he's just, he's just that kind of person who you're drawn to. And while out climbing with him one day, I watched him pull on to this V8 in Hueco Tanks, Sex After Death, and pretty calmly, flash a grade that was his hardest send before his road trip. And later in the day, he pulled onto a V9, Frogger, and did the exact same thing. Now, before Jonah pulled on to Sex After Death, he said to me, I'm trying to get better at this. I really want to learn how to try hard. And I found that to be a really interesting juxtaposition with his normal, happy go lucky go with the flow, sort of style. And I wanted to talk to him about that contrast and how he manages it.

Jonah Durham  24:17

It was something I've never really been good at. I'd like to think I'm a pretty slow climber with bouldering. I like to know beta, like exactly. I'd like to know every foot placement, all the right grains on the holds I grab. It's rare for me to flash anything. But recently, I thought it'd be kind of fun just to see what happens just trying really hard in general because it's hard to give 100% on a climb every time. You can't do it. It's exhausting. 

Kris Hampton  24:43

Yeah, totally.

Jonah Durham  24:44

 Um, but kind of something that I've thought about is what helps me try really hard is just to think about climbing and think that what you're doing is kind of silly, you know, don't take it very seriously and that kind of gets rid of any doubts or kind of like disbelief in your head. And you can just attack a rock climb with a clear mind. And I think that really helps just not really thinking about anything other than what's in front of you not not thinking about the fall, about beta or anything, you know? Just the climb in front of you.

Kris Hampton  25:14

Yeah. Have you ever been times, I'm curious about this, because you do seem to pull on and not worry about things and not think about things, and there was a day we were walking up the chains in Hueco here. And you had just done Free Willy, I presume?

Jonah Durham  25:34

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  25:35

Because I heard this little like, shout of joy. And I, I looked back and, you know, I knew it was you, pulling over the top and you were like, on top doing this little joy dance? 

Jonah Durham  25:48

Yep. It's a very embarrassing dance. It's impulsive. I can't help it.

Kris Hampton  25:54

That's the thing. Just the other day, you were dancing on top of a boulder and yeah, I think it's hilarious that you just don't seem to. You're not intimidated by the grades or by the people or there doesn't seem to be a lot of ego involved.

Jonah Durham  26:10

Yeah, yeah, I try to keep ego out of climbing just because it's, it's silly. If you think about what we're doing with our time, just going out and climbing on little boulders. It doesn't have to be this, you know, uber ultra serious I must climb this boulder or my life is gonna fall apart. You know, you could just have fun with your friends. And I mean, obviously still try hard because that's really fun to see what you're capable of. But it doesn't need to be so extreme, I guess.

Kris Hampton  26:33

Yeah, I think that's important that you just said it's fun to try hard because 

Jonah Durham  26:37

Oh, yeah absolutely.

Kris Hampton  26:38

Because you can look at, I'm gonna, you know, it could seem to be this really militaristic thing of I'm gonna pull on I'm gonna try really hard. I'm gonna block out the fall. I'm gonna block out everything else. I'm just going to try hard that could seem really militaristic. And it seems to be this contradiction between I'm going to do that because it's silly what we're doing.

Kris Hampton  26:40

 Yeah. But it's so much fun. 

Kris Hampton  26:53

Its the easiest contradiction. But the thing is that you're having a ton of fun by trying hard. 

Jonah Durham  27:04

Exactly, exactly. You're just competing. You're competing with yourself, really, and you want to see what you're capable of. And I love that feeling. I'm just seeing what you're capable of and trying as hard as you can.

Kris Hampton  27:14

What happens when you fail? Or do you? Have you ever? Have you ever failed, Jonah?

Jonah Durham  27:19

All the time. Have you felt my crash pad? It is so blown out right now. Oh my gosh, that seems to love. What happens when I fail? I don't I don't throw wobblers as they're called. People picking up and throwing crashpads, I think that is just pretty ridiculous. Because it's just a boulder problem. I normally just kind of think about what I did wrong. Maybe there's a body position I could have been in that would have helped. Sometimes I'll when I when I'm not climbing a boulder problem with a clear mind. Sometimes I'll think about the fall. The other day, I went up to Bloodline by myself with my pad. And I was kind of midway up the route and I looked down and my pad was in the wrong spot. And I was gonna hit the rock. So that kind of got in my head. So I jumped down. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so.

Kris Hampton  28:11

So you're still making good decisions?

Jonah Durham  28:13

I try to, yes. Climbing by yourself maybe isn't the best decision because when I ended up doing it, I was still over the pad. 

Kris Hampton  28:20

Yeah.

Jonah Durham  28:21

 Not over the pad. But

Kris Hampton  28:25

no, I think it's, I think you're right. I think that, you know, failure is going to happen. And you just have to accept that. But you said something really smart and that you're, you just see what you try to figure out what you did wrong.

Jonah Durham  28:41

 Yeah. Learn from your failure. 

Kris Hampton  28:42

Learn from the failure. You know, it's not, it's not like the ultimate. I just failed. And that's the end of my life failure.

Jonah Durham  28:49

Yep. Throw crash pads and shoes.

Kris Hampton  28:52

Yeah. And like you said, it's, it's silly. It's a boulder problem, ya know? And it's silly if it's a route, and it's silly if it's, uh, 

Jonah Durham  28:57

Oh, sure. Sure.

Kris Hampton  28:58

 Whatever it is, this whole thing we do is a little bit silly. Anyway, yeah. Yeah. So I think people find it hard to do both to take it seriously and see it as silly. 

Jonah Durham  29:12

Sure. Sure.

Kris Hampton  29:13

 You know, let's let's try and dig into that. I'm not even sure that I'm not even sure how, frankly to dig into it. But let's, let's just talk about that and see what happens. Like do you have friends who take it super seriously?

Jonah Durham  29:24

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I've seen people. I mean, a lot of my best friends are just like diehard boulderers in that's, I mean, I'm obviously very passionate about climbing too. But they approach it very differently, I guess than I do. They'll swear and get super upset when they don't do a boulder problem, but they try really, really hard. I'm one of my best friends back home,really strong climber tries just so hard. He like death screams his way up climbs. When he falls,he's totally upset but it's inspiring to watch him try that hard. Guess what's not inspiring is him throwing these mega fits, or something I just said, I just don't think that really needs to be a part of climbing. I mean, like, when you fall or fail, learn from your failure and think about what you did wrong, I guess, you know?

Kris Hampton  30:15

Yeah, I agree. And I think I think some of those people do, like, I'm on, I'm on your side, like, I don't generally throw I've, in fact, I've never thrown a fit. I've never, never had a wobbler you know, never done any of that. I'm the same way as you. I'm fairly contemplative when I fall off. First, I'm excited, like, Oh, this is cool. I get to learn. So yeah, what is it that I get to learn but having, you know, delved into this world of emotional rock climbing, because Annalissa and I've been working a lot on her attitude towards climbing this season. I think that, you know, some people are just higher emotion and wound a little more tight. And, and that's the way they express their emotion.

Jonah Durham  31:06

 Yeah, sure.

Kris Hampton  31:06

 I don't think it necessarily means that they are super negative, or they hate themselves for it or anything like that. I think it's just, that's the way they express it. And then a lot of those people do come back almost immediately, you know, a few minutes later, they're learning the same lessons that you are, you know, they just come about it a different way. Yeah. So I think it's okay to do as long as it's not a, you know, an over blown over done. I need attention. Look at me. I just fell off this V10 kind of thing, you know, and you can tell the difference. If you're an experienced climber, you can see the difference for sure. So, but you said you learn, you know, you learn from him, like he, you're and you're inspired by his try hard?

Jonah Durham  31:53

Yeah, absolutely.

Kris Hampton  31:54

I assume it's a he. I just made that assumption, which I shouldn't have.

Jonah Durham  31:58

 Yeah.It's a he. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  32:00

So do you think he learns from you?

Jonah Durham  32:04

From watching me just kind of, I mean, I have a more laid back approach to climbing. He's really into climbing competitions. I'm not so much. So I guess he has more of a competitive mentality with rock climbing. Just when he attacks climbs, I guess he thinks he has to get the top climbs kind of with a time in mind, because that's how climbing competitions are.

Kris Hampton  32:29

 Interesting.

Jonah Durham  32:32

 Takes it very seriously and puts pressure on himself if he doesn't climb or perform well, he kind of harsh is on himself.

Kris Hampton  32:39

Well, it sounds like he could learn from you then. 

Jonah Durham  32:41

Yeah I don't, I wouldn't say he's necessarily learned from me just because that's how he climbs naturally, I guess. But, yeah, I'm not sure I know. I don't think he's learned for me.

Kris Hampton  32:52

Yeah, well, he I think he could if he listens this, maybe you should.Yeah, I think it's a I think you can do both. I think you can have the, you know, partial laid back and then the attack mode, because I just saw you do it.

Jonah Durham  33:06

Yeah. Oh, it's so important to have, but just being able to tune out and have a clear mindset when you're climbing is really important.

Kris Hampton  33:14

 Yeah,

Jonah Durham  33:14

I think so.

Kris Hampton  33:15

 So obviously, this is something that Jonah is still grappling with, and you know, coming to terms with and figuring out, and he's willing to talk about it and be open about it. And I think that's remarkable, not just for a 19 year old, but also for someone who's seen recent success, like Jonah has, I mean, he's jumped from V8 to  V10, relatively easily. And he also jumped from, you know, 12b to 13a. So, to understand that, there are still things to figure out, even though you're having this, this amazing success is a really mature thing. And I wanted to know how it is that, you know, what exactly is Jonah doing? To try and reach this tuned out, clear mindset that he talks about?

Jonah Durham  34:09

I guess a lot of that is, I know, it sounds a little hippy, but meditating helps to clear your mind, focusing on your breath. Especially that's something that's helped me a lot when I find just remembering to breathe, focusing on my breath that seems to kind of make you focus a little bit more. You're not thinking about other things like maybe the landing isn't good. Maybe you don't have a spot or something. Just being able to look at the climb in front of you and focus on breathing. That really helps out of all the things I'd say that helps a lot.

Kris Hampton  34:38

Yeah, and I don't think that's hippie at all, I think it's smart.

Jonah Durham  34:41

Well, you, I read a lot of that Rock and Ice guru stuff that talks about aligning your chakras and what not to become a better rock climber.

Kris Hampton  34:50

No, I think you know, even just looking at it from a scientific point of view, your muscles have to have oxygen to perform. So if you're not breathing, then you're not going to perform very well. 

Jonah Durham  35:01

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  35:02

Period. 

Jonah Durham  35:02

And I think we've all had those climbs where we forget to breathe and get to the top and we're totally gassed. 

Kris Hampton  35:06

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely happens to me more than I would like to admit. But so when did you start working on it? Like, when did you realize that you didn't just flip the switch and try hard.

Jonah Durham  35:19

I would say maybe a few months ago, in November, I was climbing in LRC. And just really started to realize that when I'd get to the top of boulder problems, I'm just totally gassed. And then shortly after that, I started working on meditation and reading on how to get better at it. And a big part of it was an easy way is just to slow down and just think about your breath in that gives your brain something, something to think about. Other than trying to just tune off. And so I guess I applied what I learned from meditation, something I still am working on, to climbing and just breathing and slowing down listening to your breath.

Kris Hampton  35:59

How old are you?

Jonah Durham  35:59

19

Kris Hampton  36:01

Insane to me. When I was 19, I was in jail. I wasn't thinking anything about meditation. So So what resources did you look to to, to kind of learn about meditation?

Jonah Durham  36:13

 Google, the Oracle, the Oracle Google.

Kris Hampton  36:15

The all knowing Googler.

Jonah Durham  36:16

Yep Googled it. 

Kris Hampton  36:18

Do you like are you doing like the, what's the popular meditation app that's on people's phones? I can't think of.... Headspace? Did you do that? Or were you just

36:29

I just, I read a little bit about it. I was looking at some kinds of yoga that I think's really cool, because I'm trying to get better at yoga too. It was something involved with Ashtanga Yoga, which is like a yoga that really emphasizes on breathing in different positions. So I got into that. And then in terms of just meditating, its how I normally end doing yoga. Just take 15 to 30 minutes to sit in silence and just focus on my breath.

Kris Hampton  36:58

So yeah, that's simple.

Jonah Durham  37:00

Yeah, it's it's super easy. It's an easy thing to start. And that's the best way to begin is just find some time out if your day like 15 minutes even. I started I mean, I'm, I was awful at it. When I first started, I could sit for like, four minutes. And then I'd, my mind would wander and I'd have to get up and I was done.

Kris Hampton  37:17

You know, I'm the same way. If I if I sit still for more than a couple of minutes at a time. I'm like, okay, I must have work to do. 

Jonah Durham  37:23

Yeah, exactly.

Kris Hampton  37:24

What can I do? 

Jonah Durham  37:24

Exactly. Yeah. Just take a little bit of time. And eventually, you'll get better at it. And you're more comfortable sitting for longer. And just focusing on your breath, I guess, breathing in deeply, whatnot.

Kris Hampton  37:36

I think it's interesting that you know, your, your path to trying harder, flipping that try hard switch came through, calming down and relaxing, and quiet and breathing.

Jonah Durham  37:50

 And going back to the acknowledging that climbing is kind of silly, that in itself calms you down. Because if you kind of are climbing with this intensity, it can stress you out, you know. You put pressure on yourself to say I have to do these boulder problems, this trad climb, this sport pitch or whatever, you put pressure on yourself. And maybe you doubt yourself, when you're climbing. If I have to do this, this move is too hard, I'm too weak, whatever. Just acknowledging that it really helps quite a bit to.

Kris Hampton  38:32

Now, I just want to clarify here that I agree with Jonah. And I think most of us can agree that climbing is a little silly. But that doesn't mean that it's not important to us. I mean, it is, right? So important that we're willing to live in our vehicles for months or years to chase conditions around the world for it. And for most of us, Jonah included, it's a lifestyle. And maybe at the silliest end of that spectrum is something that I consider to be a necessary evil for most of us to continue improving. And that's climbing indoors. And we already know that that's how Jonah got started climbing. And, you know, now he's finding himself out here on this road trip. So I wondered how that got started in the gym.

Jonah Durham  39:23

I kind of I look at the gym very differently than I look at climbing outside. I look at climbing in the gym as a place to get stronger, you know, just to train. So, I mean, it's fun to work on a route at the gym for a few days and kind of have a I guess you could say like a pseudo project, but it's not something you really need to work for necessarily. You don't need to put a lot of time into because I mean, for me, at least for me at least you don't

Kris Hampton  39:47

You don't need to finish it.

Jonah Durham  39:49

No, I look at it as just making moves and getting stronger fingers to apply that to climbing outside.

Kris Hampton  39:54

That's a smart way to look at it. Yeah.

Jonah Durham  39:56

I mean I love climbing in  the gym. I started climbing in the gym. Every time I go there, it's really fun. But I use it as kind of just like a place to train, you know, not a place to perform. I use like boulders as a place to perform. 

Kris Hampton  40:10

Yep. Do you have boulders near your house that that are easily accessible? Is Squamish the nearest area or?

Jonah Durham  40:17

 We have a small boulder field that we started developing a few years ago, and it's just pretty chossy sandstone.Takes about like three hours to clean because it's all covered in moss. So not the best bouldering. Bellingham is an interesting place because the climbing there isn't so good, but it's close to amazing climbing. We have Squamish that, depending on the border, you can get there in an hour and 45 minutes, we have Leavenworth and Index. Smith Rock isn't too far away. So it's actually a great place to be a climber because there's a lot of good stuff nearby, but nothing really right there. And so

Kris Hampton  40:53

During the week, like during school, you're you're in the gym, mostly.

Jonah Durham  40:56

 Yep, I didn't. That's about all I had time to do because I put a lot of emphasis on school. I was pretty much school, the gym and then working at the climbing gym. 

Kris Hampton  41:06

Okay, so you worked at the climbing gym? 

Jonah Durham  41:08

I did. Yeah, I was a route setter. And then I just do a little odd end jobs. I did a little bit of landscaping. And then I worked at the climbing gym taking out the trash and cleaning every once in a while.

Kris Hampton  41:19

Do you do you take the same like, fun carefree attitude into routesetting? What are your what are the problems you're setting like? Or do you always just set heinous cramps up a slightly overhanging a wall?

Jonah Durham  41:31

I actually don't like to set crimper problems. 

Kris Hampton  41:34

Really

Jonah Durham  41:34

 I try. I try not to. I'm really passionate about routesetting. The people I worked with are really good route setters. I had really good mentors. We set with a lot of volumes and did a lot of like coordination technical styles of climbing something I'm actually really bad at. But that was kind of what the gym was like. Heavy on the volumes. Yeah, route setting was something I was really passionate about for a while. I still am, I just haven't got the opportunity to do it for a while.

Kris Hampton  42:03

Yeah, who were your routesetting mentors?

Jonah Durham  42:05

Can I say their names?

Kris Hampton  42:06

Yeah, for sure.

Jonah Durham  42:07

It's Art Lim, Ryan Patrick Wapnowski and Justin Plant. I learned a lot there. All three of them are very different setters. But I learned a lot from either one of them and just about climbing in general, because they're very different climbers.

Kris Hampton  42:20

Yeah, that's cool to have three, you know, totally different climbers to look up to learn from.

Jonah Durham  42:26

I mean, some of them are my role models and others, they're just really good friends, too. They're all really good friends of mine. Actually, I see Art in Red Rocks in a few weeks from now.

Kris Hampton  42:35

Awesome. Yeah, what uh, what are the top things you think you picked up from them?

Jonah Durham  42:41

In terms of route setting, or like climbing wise?

Kris Hampton  42:44

Both. Things that you still carry with you today

Jonah Durham  42:47

I guess, in terms of route setting, I learned about aesthetics from Ryan. From Justin I really learned like the technical side of route setting and how to be efficient and be organized. And Art, I guess I learned just how to be crazy with climbing, you know, set moves you didn't really think were possible. 360s and bat hangs and crazy double clutches. And then on the climbing side Art was a very, is a very, very powerful climber. He kind of just pastes his feet on the wall and jumps around. Yeah, the style of climbing I've never been really good at but aspire to be better at so just being powerful trying to jump like a madman climbs. And then Justin and Ryan are both very technical, sound climbers. Justin's kind of, we call him the slab master. So learned how to be delicate with my feet. He's a smart guy.

Kris Hampton  43:44

It's clear that Jonah chooses to try and better himself by watching others and choosing the lessons that he needs. And I think that's a good tactic. And he's surrounded himself with good people. Or maybe that's just the type of people he attracts. I mean, we all want to learn from people like Jonah. And like you mentioned, he's headed back to Rocky Mountain National Park where for the summer, he'll be filling a position that might allow even more people to absorb this good energy that he has.

Jonah Durham  44:16

So last summer, I climbed quite a bit with the climbing rangers and had a really good time. They're all awesome. And they kind of threw out the idea that I could be the next bouldering steward this summer. 

Kris Hampton  44:30

Have there been bouldering stewards before?

Jonah Durham  44:32

It's a newer program. So they did it for the first time last year. Okay, but the bouldering steward, Melissa Strong, she had an injury. She had an accident thing. And it sounds like she just recently had another accident.

Kris Hampton  44:46

Yeah, kind of a heinous one.

Jonah Durham  44:48

 Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So she couldn't get out in the park as much as she would have liked to. So this year is kind of, I guess you could say it's the first year the bouldering stewardship is really going to take off. There's, as far as I know, there's two of us. And I haven't met the other bouldering steward, but her name is Cammie. But yeah, I'm going to be the bouldering steward. I'm going to be there from June until the end of September. Essentially, it's an opportunity for me to take care of the bouldering around Rocky Mountain National Park. It's a over recent years bouldering has become really popular. Like 15 years ago, people weren't bouldering at the park as much as they are now. The main focus was trad climbing. 

Jonah Durham  45:32

Yep. 

Jonah Durham  45:33

The climbing rangers were used to be called the Long's Peak Rangers, because that's where all the climbing was and that's where all the activity was. But then bouldering blew up in the early 2000s, late 90s. And I guess the bouldering steward program is just like, an effort to make it so there's more people around the bouldering areas, taking care of them, teaching people about leaving no trace ethics, picking up trash, just kind of basic stuff. To be honest, I know a little bit of what it entails. But it's also kind of unknown. I know I'm going to take some a search and rescue course, a basic medical course and a ropes rescue course. So I'm really excited just to learn and being Rocky Mountain National Park this summer and figure out what this bouldering stewardship is all about. 

Kris Hampton  46:17

Awesome. I don't think they could have picked a better steward. Because I honestly think that in the boulder field, you know, if a lot of climbers have this weird aversion to any sort of perceived authority, you know, but but you have this and we talked about this, you know, before we were in Hueco, but your energy is just so inviting and and people want to be friends with you. That it wouldn't matter if you were the police when you rolled up, people are gonna be into it, just because you have that kind of guy. So I think that's a good choice on their part a strategic choice on on their part, maybe?

Jonah Durham  47:05

Yeah, I'm excited for it. I think that the in terms of being kind of a role of authority, there might be a bit of a learning curve.

Kris Hampton  47:11

Are you gonna get to wear a cool ranger hat?

Jonah Durham  47:13

I am not sure. So, Max, one of the climbing rangers, I got a text message and it said, I'm not sure what it means it says Jonah might be wearing an outfit this summer. So maybe I'm gonna get dudded out in some sweet ranger gear. I'm not sure. I hope so.

Kris Hampton  47:29

Oh man, I have to have photos.

Jonah Durham  47:32

I'll send you a photo.

Kris Hampton  47:32

 Yeah, that's gonna I'll come up to the park just to see that. 

Jonah Durham  47:36

Oh, man. It's gonna be pretty dorky.

Kris Hampton  47:38

Alright, cool. Jonah, thanks for sitting down with me, man. I really appreciate it. I sort of had to convince you. I was like, Are we really gonna do this? I don't know how to do this.

Jonah Durham  47:49

I still don't know how to do. I feel so silly with this microphone.

Kris Hampton  47:54

I'll make you sound like a professional.

Jonah Durham  47:55

Alright, I'm excited. I'm excited to hear the finished product.

Kris Hampton  47:58

Alright, man, thanks.

Jonah Durham  47:59

Thank you, Kris.

Kris Hampton  48:05

Now, in my travels over the last year, I've you know, generally I'm the oldest guy at the crag. And I've come across a whole lot of 19 and young 20 year olds. And it's not often that I meet one who's so in tune with recognizing the trappings of his own ego and, and understanding what it is he needs to do to get better. And on meeting Jonah, it would be really easy to just shrug it off as another nice kid. But I'm really glad that I dug in because I've learned so much talking to Jonah about relaxing and not taking this thing so seriously. And and looking at this path that Jonah took that might seem at first backwards to learning to try hard and to learning to really flip that switch by meditating and learning to breathe and and when you do get to the top, allowing yourself to find absolute joy in it. You know, I think that's what makes Jonah Durham a Not So Average Joe.

Kris Hampton  49:30

Thanks again for listening to our Not So Average series. We do this because we love it. And because we believe that everyone has a story worth telling. The music you heard in today's episode is from the album The world Is Ours by our friend Ill Poetic. The World Is Ours is celebrating its 10 year anniversary and for me, it's just as good now as the first time I heard it 10 years ago. You can hear more from Ill Poetic at illpoetic.com. These episodes take a ton of time to produce and you can help a lot by sharing on your social medias. You can like our Facebook page and follow us on Instagram. If you're into Pinterest we're on there too. And well you can tweet about us but like my main dude and Nalle Simon says we don't tweet we scream like eagles.