What When How to Train | Ten Sleep with Taylor Fragomeni

Photo credits: 1) Seth Langbauer, climber Taylor Fragomeni. 2) Matt Abbott, climber Taylor Fragomeni. 3) AJ Sobrilsky, climber Becky Switzer. 4) Jenny Walters, climber Zoë Rayor (they/them). 5) Rachel Avallone, climber Becky Switzer.

Looking to spend your summer sport climbing on gently overhanging crimps on beautiful limestone cliffs? Look no further than Ten Sleep, a picturesque canyon nestled high in the Bighorns of Wyoming offering tons of generously bolted lines up to grades of 14+.

Our very own coach Taylor Fragomeni started climbing in Ten Sleep more than a decade ago and it’s where she experienced many of her “climbing firsts”. She’s seen it grow from a once quieter spot for weekend warriors of the west into one of the busier destinations for climbers from all over to spend summer months.

You can learn more about Taylor at her site Tangent Climbing.

GRIP FOCUS: small edges

STYLE FOCUS: technical face climbing

BEST CONDITIONS: late Spring – early Fall

WEATHER CONSIDERATIONS: Crags are at elevation – anywhere between 6,000-9,500 feet – so plan (and pack clothing for) alpine weather and sun exposure. Intense summer thunderstorms are common, but the rock dries quickly and is generally okay to climb on after rain. Several approaches include creek crossings, so bring appropriate footwear.

SPECIAL EQUIPMENT: Stick clip. Plenty of draws (permas aren’t as common). Both stiffer/edging shoes and softer/sensitive shoes can come in handy.

SPECIAL SKILLS NEEDED AT CERTAIN GRADE LEVEL: Understanding how to distribute your weight over small feet can help you utilize resting stances. The ability to find – and memorize – the best beta for your body is key on routes with many options.

Climber: Becky Switzer.

MUST DO’S:

• 5.10 and under:

  • Death Flake from Hell, 10a

  • Beer Bong, 10b

• 5.11:

  • Circus in the Wind, 11b

  • Face Melter Roof, 11b/c

  • Hanoi Hilton, 11d

• 5.12:

  • Sleight of Hand, 12a

  • Tricks for You, 12a

  • Esplanada, 12d

• 5.13 and up:

  • Dances with Cows, 13a

  • Blue Light Special, 13b

  • Galactic Emperor, 14a

PERSONAL FAVORITES:

• Holla, 12d

OVERLOOKED CLASSICS:

• Step Right this Way, 10b/c

• Pre-Spice Blow, 10c

• Crossbow Chaos Theory, 11a

• Pump Me Like a Shotgun, 11d

• Vulcan Jessery, 12a

• If Dreams Were Thunder, 12b

• Slim Jim, 13a

BEST CRAG FOR A GROUP OF VARYING GRADE LEVELS: Downpour Wall, Downtown (The Cigar, John Henry Grotto areas), French Cattle Ranch (Grasshopper Wall/Sector Shinto areas), Crag 6

BEST REST DAY ACTIVITY:

• Lounging by the creek that runs through the canyon.

GUIDEBOOK: Tensleep Climbing Guidebook from Aaron Huey, et al. with proceeds going to the Access Fund. Ten Sleep Canyon Climbing from Louie Anderson.

BEST PLACE TO STAY: Ten Sleep Rock Ranch, or dispersed camping throughout the canyon (Bighorn National Forest).

Lana’s favorite flavors at Dirty Sally’s: Graham Slam on the bottom and Huckleberry on top.

BEST PLACE TO EAT: Dirty Sally’s General Store for ice cream, coffee, sandwiches, or a few groceries. Ten Sleep Brewing Company for beer (and sometimes small plates/food trucks on weekends). Sleepy Coyote Cafe & Bar.

Photo credit: AJ Sobrilsky. Climber: Becky Switzer.

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:36

What's up everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton.

Taylor Fragomeni  00:39

And this is Taylor Fragomeni.

Kris Hampton  00:41

And Taylor is one of our coaches, climbing coach with tangent climbing. setter. climber. What are, what else are you? 

Taylor Fragomeni  00:58

That's my whole identity. That's all I am.

Kris Hampton  01:02

And right now you're based in

Taylor Fragomeni  01:05

St. George, Utah.

Kris Hampton  01:06

What did you say that with a country accent for?

Taylor Fragomeni  01:10

I don't know. It's because I moved to Utah.

Kris Hampton  01:14

You sure there was a little country in there?

Taylor Fragomeni  01:17

That's how people say it there.

Kris Hampton  01:19

I don't know. But you spent a lot of time in Bozeman, and Ten Sleep, I assume, is one of the like closest big areas.

Taylor Fragomeni  01:28

So I lived in Bozeman for eight or nine years. And Ten Sleep, it was only four and a half hours away. And so we always used to zip down there on long weekends, and I’d do some longer trips in the summer. It's a pretty, pretty special place to me. I've been climbing there since I moved to Bozeman in 2011. Um, yeah, we always used to joke that the best climbing in Montana was in Wyoming. Yeah, it was easy to go there all the time. I think I climbed almost everything from my first 10c and my first 13b there, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, I've probably climbed there more than anywhere else.

Kris Hampton  02:12

That's really cool. Yeah, I didn't even know that when I asked you to come on and do what when how to train for Ten Sleep. But I knew you'd spent a lot of time there. But I had no idea it was that much. That's yeah, cool. Yeah. Like your formative years?

Taylor Fragomeni  02:29

For sure. Yeah, that that canyon has seen many versions of me for sure.

Kris Hampton  02:35

Let's talk a little about the Ten Sleep style. I feel like it's a really similar rock to hear in wild iris in some ways. But the style is pretty different. It's very different. So talk to me about what the style of 10 Sleep is.

Taylor Fragomeni  02:55

Yeah. So I would say it's, it's predominantly technical. Really. It definitely, there's, there are pockets, for sure. They don't climb anything like the pockets and land in Lander and especially like wild Iris, for instance. And there's actually quite a bit of variety intensely, but I think it gets put into this category of being like all vertical tech climbing, but there are crabs that are more powerful. And there are crags that are steeper, there are short routes and longer routes and lots of in between. But yeah, overarching, like I'd say it's pretty, it's pretty technical, a lot of directional holds. There's a lot of options on the routes, which is really nice. 

Kris Hampton  03:40

You say directional holds just for the folks who, you know, may not quite understand what that is. Let's, let's explain there.

Taylor Fragomeni  03:47

Yeah, so not much down pulling, lots of positioning your body around side pulls and gastons and being able to kind of shift your weight over your feet in a way that is going to optimize those holds.

Kris Hampton  04:05

That's, that's good to know. Because when a lot of people think of technical they just think of tiny crimp, step on a little foot, tiny crimp, step on little foot. there is that too. So there's also a lot of like positioning your body to make moves work. Yeah, yeah, so the body position side of technique. For sure. Is there any like any characteristics to Ten Sleep beyond the like climbing style, type of holds, but what else do we need to know if we're planning a trip for the first time there? What's Ten sleep all about?

Taylor Fragomeni  04:41

Um, so well, let's go like logistics first. 10 Sleep is very small town. There's not a huge grocery store there or anything like that. So coming in, you definitely would want to stock up on groceries either in a Worland, which is about 30 minutes west of 10 sleep, or Buffalo, which is east of 10 sleep by about an hour and 15 minutes. And those are kind of your options for bigger grocery stores. There is a little market called Dirty Sally's in town that has some local produce and stuff like that and some some basics for groceries, but you'd want to stock up ahead of time for sure. Weather wise, there, it can be kind of volatile in the kind of shoulder season. So a lot of people will go there July and August. And those have like always been the busiest seasons, they used to be kind of the prime season. But more recent years, it's been really hot those months. So now kind of on either side of that like late spring, early fall tend to be a little bit better if you're trying to go redpoint things that are hard for you. But one of the cool things about 10 Sleep is that there's there's loads of climbs at every grade. So if you're just going to like get a bunch of volume and and climb a lot of rock climbs then and you like hanging out with a lot of cool people that in July and August are great. There's a nice creek running all through the canyon that people tend to hang out in during rest days and stuff like that. I think what's really cool is that you, well I like this at least, some people wake up in the morning and are ready to go rock climbing and you can do that there. But Ten Sleep is kind of characterized by these slow starts to the morning where you you know you can wake up, have your cup of coffee, read a book for a little…

Kris Hampton  06:45

Is this just you or is this Ten Sleep? 

Taylor Fragomeni  06:47

Um, probably a bit of both but yeah, a lot of people hang out and like don’t go up to the crag until the early afternoon. There's climbing on both sides of the canyon, though, so you can

Kris Hampton  07:02

I was going to ask you that. Yeah, I've only been there one time. I've been through several times, only climbed there one time.

Taylor Fragomeni  07:08

It's only two hours from here. 

Kris Hampton  07:10

I know. 

Taylor Fragomeni  07:12

I'm actually not surprised.

Kris Hampton  07:14

The crags around here are only 30 minutes. So

Taylor Fragomeni  07:17

that's true. It's hard to leave and go anywhere else when there's awesome rock climbing right in your backyard. Yeah,

Kris Hampton  07:25

exactly. So there are climbs on both sides of canyon. 

Taylor Fragomeni  07:28

There are. Yeah, so there's there's stuff that gets morning shade and stuff like it's afternoon shade. But the more popular crags that most people climb at are on the side that gets afternoon shade.

Kris Hampton  07:39

Got it. Yeah, hence the late morning starts.

Taylor Fragomeni  07:42

Hence the late morning start. Yeah,

Kris Hampton  07:45

What are approaches like? Do people need to be in like super cardio fitness mode or?

Taylor Fragomeni  07:50

So those vary quite a bit. There's some crags that are basically roadside, and then there's some that are like a 45 minute hike to an hour. One thing to keep in mind is that if you live at lower elevation, and you're visiting 10 sleep, you might feel it a little bit when you're there. The the crags kind of range and elevation from around 6,000 feet at the bottom of the canyon up to almost 10 at the top of the canyon. And I know even for myself, like living in Montana and frequently going into higher elevation areas. Whenever I was there for a longer period of time, it always took me like maybe four or five days to feel like I wasn't just absolutely sucking wind on the hikes higher up in the canyon. 

Kris Hampton  08:36

Yeah, if you're not super, like used to changing altitude or if you haven't spent if you're coming from Ohio, for instance, or never been in the mountains. The difference between 6,000 or 9 or 10,000 can be a gigantic difference in Yeah. In the oxygen and in the temperature in the weather. So you probably need to pack quite a bit of different clothing. Does that sound right?

Taylor Fragomeni  09:07

Absolutely. Yeah, I'm one of those people that will like always bring my puffy to the crag because I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Kris Hampton  09:17

Yeah, that's a real thing in Wyoming. That's yeah, that does not exist in like Kentucky or the East Coast nearly the way that it does here. If it doesn't matter if it's 100 degrees in town, you should bring a puffy.

Taylor Fragomeni  09:30

Exactly, yeah, um, and a rain jacket is probably a good idea as well. It doesn't tend to rain there for more than I don't know, maybe like an hour at the most but a lot of the times when I've experienced rain there, it's been very short lived. But, you know, sometimes it might rain and you want to walk back to the car and not hide under the cliff. But a lot of the time you can hide under the cliff and it, the rock luckily dries really fast and is fine to climb on after rain.

Kris Hampton  10:04

Yeah, that's another good thing to say. I think because it's you know, it's not really soft sandstone it's it's a pretty hard rock. Wyoming is really dry, that dolomite. So it can be I mean it can be totally dry 10 minutes after a rain you know, especially if it's windy. Yeah, that is often windy. Yeah. Definitely not the same as if you're climbing in, you know, the soft sandstone area.

Taylor Fragomeni  10:36

Yeah, and some of the craziest thunderstorms I've ever witnessed have been in Ten Sleep too. I don't know if it was just I just happened to be there at those times. But I think the canyon is oriented west to east and weather generally moves west to east. As it comes up the canyon, I think the air tends to compress and the storms get more intense, the higher you are up in the canyon, which is kind of crazy. So that could be a thing to keep in mind, too. Yeah, yeah.

Kris Hampton  11:09

Yeah, totally. equipment needed? So beyond just rain jackets and a puffy anything we need for the climbing like, you know, in rifle, if you didn't bring kneepads, you're not going to enjoy yourself nearly as much. What's it like in Ten Sleep?

Taylor Fragomeni  11:28

So you don't really need knee pads much in Ten sleep.

Kris Hampton  11:32

Is there anywhere in Wyoming where you need knee pads a lot? I wonder?

Taylor Fragomeni  11:37

Not that I know of? Yeah. I always put one in my pack, just in case you never know. Same. There are actually there's a few climbs there where it'd be nice to have one, but they're definitely not like generally necessary. A stick clip is a good idea. A lot of the routes are bolted with the intention that you’re stick clipping the bottom. And it's just nice to have in general.

Kris Hampton  11:59

Good beta for sport climbing in general. But yeah, some people still leave them at home. 

Taylor Fragomeni  12:03

True story. Um, a 60 meter rope is going to be fine for most things. And there's generally notes in the guidebook or on Mountain project if they're not, if a 60 wouldn't be long enough. You do need to bring draws. So this is kind of, we joke about this in St. George all the time, because almost everything is fixed now. We're like, oh my gosh, I had to bring my draws to the crag today. But in Ten Sleep there are very few routes that are fixed. If you're there in the busy season like July and August. There's generally going to be draws hanging on a lot of the more popular routes, but it's a good idea to bring a bunch to the crag and

Kris Hampton  12:42

don't count on those that are hanging. Yeah, check them before you clip them.

Taylor Fragomeni  12:47

Yeah, for sure. Yep, definitely. There's some that I've definitely pulled from there that were just up for many seasons and not in very good condition. Yeah, shoes, I think most people prefer like a stiffer edging shoe. I kind of like having two pairs. So some of the crags like I said, are more like bouldery less, less edging and more smearing. And it might be nice to have like a softer shoe for those crags but generally people prefer things like Skwamas or Solutions or Katanas or whatever. Something stiffer for edging can be nice. There's a couple of approaches where you do cross 10 Sleep Creek so there's like a higher, there's a higher approach for French cattle ranch that you walk across, the creek crossings is a little bit spicy.

Kris Hampton  13:41

Is it a deep creek? like what's the creek like?

Taylor Fragomeni  13:44

It depends on how much snow melt there was from the or how much snow for the year. There is a line running across the creek but it's it's more of like it's definitely not like Tyrolean status. It's kind of just a hand line. And it's actually not in the best place to cross. It's easier to cross higher up in the creek, but it can be there's been times I've crossed it and it's been like a mid thigh high.

Kris Hampton  14:10

So you want to bring something that you aren't afraid to get wet.

Taylor Fragomeni  14:14

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and all like, you'd want a pair of shorts obviously for that too. A lot of people will just bring like an extra pair of socks or a pair an extra pair of pants if you're doing that approach but there is an approach that doesn't require you to cross the creek to get up there as well as just a little bit longer. And then going to the psychoactive wall lower in the canyon in the Lee Creek area. You also have to cross the creek, that one is way more mellow. so the French cattle ranch one is like near the top of the canyon and the Lee Creek one is near the bottom. got it. But it's just nice to have also for just hanging out on rest days if you want to hang in the creek especially if you're there while it's hot. It's nice to have, the creek beds are pretty rocky. So it's nice to have a pair of like chacos.

Kris Hampton  15:03

that's good beta. It also just sucks standing around all day in wet shoes that have just been collecting all day long. Yeah, it sucks, bring, bring something else. Length of routes, what's the, you know, what are we looking at?

Taylor Fragomeni  15:21

I mean, they're, so hard to answer that question because there's a lot of variety. But like I said, like a 60 meter rope is fine. Most of the time, I think I can think of one scenario where I was actually like end to end it an 80 meter rope. And it was kind of like happenstance, there's this route. Valhalla that it's the first, people climb the first pitch kind of frequently. I'm totally spacing on the name of it right now. But the first pitch is like 10b, and then there's an 11b extension off of it. And it's very slabby. So we're just, you know, looking at about it from the ground like, Yeah, this is this is fine. Slab it, you know, if you're unfamiliar, looks shorter from the ground than it actually is. And I went and climbed up to the top of it. And it just happened that we had an 80 meter rope that day, that was what my friend had brought, because it was all she had. And I had totally ended up ended it on the way down. I was like, crazy. But that is very unusual there. And even in that scenario, like there's a midway anchor, you could, you could pull it down if you needed to.

Kris Hampton  16:30

Got it. And so it feels like you know, wild iris, especially if you're going to Ten sleep from wild Iris. You can almost get away with a like 30 meter rope at wild iris most of the time. Yeah, I carry chopped ropes up there. Do not carry a full rope. We did that the other day. So definitely. You know, switch that rope out if you're headed to Ten sleep.

Taylor Fragomeni  16:56

Yeah. 60 will be good for just about everything.

Kris Hampton  17:00

Yeah, let's talk about prime season to climb there. I think it's really busy in the summer, and it's gotten busier and busier. Over the, you know, last, maybe last decade, you know, eight years, something like that. 

Taylor Fragomeni  17:15

I'd say especially in the last like, four. So 

Kris Hampton  17:19

yeah, it's gotten steadily more and more.

Taylor Fragomeni  17:21

Yeah, it's kind of wild, because it used to be that like, like I said, I started climbing there in 2011. It used to be that you'd maybe run into like two other parties over the course of a whole weekend. And it was always people from Wyoming or Montana or maybe Idaho. Yeah, now, it's just like a totally different landscape there. It's kind of wild. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  17:45

And I assume it's like it is here in Lander where summer, it’s one of the better places to go. But it's not necessarily the best time. Yeah, what are the spring and fall like they're,

Taylor Fragomeni  18:02

so they are obviously cooler, which is really nice. Again, also, if you're trying to send hard things for yourself. But the weather can be a little bit more tricky. You might get those, those storms rolling in and out of rain or snow for that matter. But again, they tend to be pretty short lived and they any snow is generally going to melt off at that point

Kris Hampton  18:28

is there a is there like snow consideration in the canyon where you can't get to parts of the canyon, if it snows like wild Iris is pretty much out until the snow melts off.

Taylor Fragomeni  18:37

Not unless you're like really pushing it probably for crag six, which is like one of the highest, it might be the highest actually, as far as like the main climbing areas go in the canyon, you do drive a dirt road for a while that is a little bit hilly to get out there. And if it's wet, the road gets very slippery. It's kind of like clay ish mud. So that's something to keep in mind as well as people tend to get stuck trying to come back up the hill to get out there.

Kris Hampton  19:10

And that's a pretty popular crag.

Taylor Fragomeni  19:11

It's very popular. Yeah. Yeah, because it's one of the coolest spots you can go to. And there's a wide variety of, of climbs there and they're all really cool.

Kris Hampton  19:21

Yeah, that's that's good beta to know, if you're, if that's where your goals are, and you don't know the area well, might be harder to get there at the end of the fall or beginning of the spring or something like that. Let's talk how you should prepare for a trip to Ten sleep.

Taylor Fragomeni  19:37

The cool thing about Ten Sleep is that you don't necessarily need to be like crazy strong to have success there. If you are a technically sound climber, then you're going to have a good time, which is nice. So we could just talk about that a little bit even like certain drills that could be helpful for are the more technical crags like somewhere like French Cattle Ranch where it's more vert, just slightly overhanging crimpy really sequential climbing, having a good understanding of like, there's lots of options on the climbs, there's having a good understanding of how to figure out beta that works well for your body is going to be really helpful. So years ago, I came up with this drill for one of my team kids that kind of struggled with more intricate movement that I called Creative Repeats where he'd have to climb a boulder, like three or four times, but in totally with a totally different sequence each time, just to kind of learn how to see the possibilities, a little bit of what can happen on a route, and not necessarily just falling right into what the intended sequences, yeah, or what everyone else is doing. And one of my favorite things to do outside. Yeah, and I'm like one of those people that tends to use different data than most other people do. So. So yeah, trying to explore that a little bit and teach yourself to see the different solutions to things can be really helpful. Because there are multiple solutions a lot of the time. Another one, if you're not super familiar with climbing on limestone, especially limestone that has a lot of feet on it, I'm understanding how to be able to distribute your weight over two feet instead of between one foot and a hand or whatever is going to be really helpful from an efficiency standpoint. And that's easy to drill in the gym as well, you can just, you know, instead of doing a one legged, really do to like a drill and maybe use open feet even and just kind of get a feel for how to distribute your weight when two feet are on the wall. Because sometimes it's easier to have one foot on. But

Kris Hampton  21:58

yeah, and you might find that shifting your weight a little bit in one direction makes a much bigger difference than you thought it would. Exactly. And it's gonna be with those directional holds. Yeah, it's gonna be totally different than if you're climbing with one foot on which, you know, it used to be actually that I saw more people needing to work on climbing with one leg. But now as gyms have gotten more powerful and more dynamic, climbing with one leg at a time is more and more common. So maybe getting back to that technical. Getting your weight over two feet is an important thing.

Taylor Fragomeni  22:36

Yeah, being able to balance between that point definitely helps. And then another thing with a lot of the time with less steep climbing, especially were grabbing a hand and then building our feet really high to reach really far you in the next handhold. So understanding how to walk your feet up is really helpful too.

Kris Hampton  22:58

man, super important. 

Taylor Fragomeni  22:59

Yeah. And I really liked the like Tic Tac Toe drill for that. So every, every hand move you do, you have to do three foot moves. But it was always so funny having our team kids do this, because they would just like tap footholds really quick with their feet. Don't do that, that's not gonna help you have to actually transfer your weight from foot to foot as you walk your feet up. Yeah, that'll be really helpful as well. So those are like the big technical standpoints.

Kris Hampton  23:32

I think that one's a really good one. Yeah, we should talk about it for a second. Because if you're if you're a gym climber, and most of your time is spent in the gym, then you're almost always in this paradigm where you're looking for the footholds. And oftentimes, what you're talking about is when a foot so high, that you can't really just step up to it, you have to sort of paddle your feet up the wall to get in place, you know, to be able to put your foot on and shift your weight over this foot. And that might mean you're stepping on things that don't look like footholds to you exactly, just smearing straight on the wall and finding the way that you need to weight those is really valuable practice for climbing outside, particularly in technical areas.

Taylor Fragomeni  24:25

And part of that comes from the wall angle too, you know, on steeper terrain, you can just move your hips away from the wall and the highest step, maybe a little bit more easily. But on thin holds on more vertical terrain where you have to stay tight into the wall in order to hold on and keep your weight over your feet the whole time. You can't really do that. And that's where that walking up becomes more encouraged. Then just like having the hip mobility to high step.

Kris Hampton  24:51

Yeah. Another thing I like to do for folks to help them kind of learn that paddling their feet up the wall is Get out, if especially if you're in a gym that has a textured wall of any kind, it's gonna be a little harder on plywood, but absolutely still doable, Get on a vertical wall and just try, you may not be able to do it, but try to match your foot where your hands are over and over just to see what happens almost like your mantling onto every hole. Because it's going to force you to have to lean away from the wall a little bit. Apply pressure so that you can get your foot high enough, you know, just on the wall, and then try to rock over. Yeah, and I think it'll teach you a lot. Even if some of the moves you try like that are impossible.

Taylor Fragomeni  25:42

Totally. Try just standing in T nuts. That's always a fun thing to do, too. 

Kris Hampton  25:47

Yeah, totally. That mean, that's a really important point. Like your your gym probably doesn't have any small footholds. Most likely not most gyms do not. Yeah, the holes that you think are small footholds are giant in comparison to some of the little tiny feet that you're going to find on limestone even on you know, 5.10s, 5.11s, you're going to find tiny little feet that are way smaller than what you're climbing on that

Taylor Fragomeni  26:13

Yeah, yeah. And it's worth stating too that trying to practice turning good footholds into bad footholds the gym that's going to be helpful to you. So what I mean by that is like intentionally standing on a poor surface of the hauled. Or maybe, if you know you've got a blocky hold, maybe you stand on the side of it instead of on the on the outside or on the top. Rather, that can be a really helpful thing to practice as well stand stand in the bolt hole instead of standing in the on the actual hold, stuff like that. 

Kris Hampton  26:50

Exactly. And if you got a home wall, of course, buy our tiny little feet, yeah, of course, a bunch of them is their grade intensely where things seem to shift, like, you know, in some areas, it you know, it's 5.12 becomes this grade, where you really have to learn how to shake out or you your finger strength has to be considerably better to make this leap from this grade to the next, like, for instance, and wild Iris, the pockets are pretty big until you get to 5.13. And then all of a sudden, you've got some pretty small, heinous little pockets. And I don't know if there's, maybe there's one 5.14 and Lander that doesn't have a mono on it, or something like, is there something like that intensely, where you see a big shift happening?

Taylor Fragomeni  27:43

Um, I'd say, I think you know, once you hit 5.13, the holds definitely gets smaller, by quite a bit. But again, I'd keep getting pulled back to this variety piece. I think a lot of it is relative, like, if you're sure, if you're trying something that is hard for you. Like I mentioned earlier, there's a lot of options on routes. And so having the skill of memorizing beta is going to be really helpful. Because it's easy to forget, when there's six different footholds, you can stand on for a move. But maybe you have to stand on the one and that's how it works for you. Right. Um, so I think that's a really big thing. Once you're projecting.

Kris Hampton  28:32

you know, one thing I think could be valuable is if you're, if you're in a gym, or you know, the setters, and you can talk to the setters, you know, mention to them that you would love to see some boulders put up or routes put up that are edges that aren't just down pulls. You know, setters love to get feedback and to have, you know, goals in mind for folks. So sure,

Taylor Fragomeni  29:00

At least they should, you should love it. Exactly.

Kris Hampton  29:03

So a lot of setters are gonna really appreciate it. If you're like, Hey, I've got a trip, coming to ten sleep. I would love a route that's just like, sidepull edges and gaston edges, forcing me to get my feet high. You know, that's gonna give them something to do. That's creative. So yeah, ask for that kind of stuff.

Taylor Fragomeni  29:21

Absolutely. Yeah. And as the the beta memorization stuff goes too like, I think a lot of the time, people get caught up in remembering hand sequences, and they forget to think about the foot sequences. And since a lot of the climbing there is more foot intensive. You got to practice memorizing foot sequences too. For sure.

Kris Hampton  29:43

I think that's a real thing. For sure.

Taylor Fragomeni  29:45

Yeah. Something we don't think about in the gym. Because a lot of the time it's like, Oh, you just grabbed his hand and then there's the one foothold right. So

Kris Hampton  29:52

Exactly, yeah. Is there anything you've done in Ten sleep that that you really had to train for and is a, you know, a proud thing for you. 

Taylor Fragomeni  30:04

Yeah, so the first 13b ever did, it's called Power Pie, it's at the dry wall, which is lower in the canyon. And that one, it's super cool. It's you kind of climb like this really chill like cracky feature for a minute and then the wall kicks back and you have a long boulder problem, I don't remember exactly how many moves it is, it's probably around 15 or so that's just really small, like sharp crimps, and cool drop knees and stuff like that to get between them. Because again, none of the holds on it are down pulling really. And that one, it was cool as I was going down there a lot like I think it was October actually. And so the weather was was really, on or off. I just went like a few weekends in a row and was getting closer and closer but was falling like near the end of the boulder. And so when I would go back to Bozeman during the week, I just tried to get a couple sessions in of just doing three by threes on like crimpy boulder problems in the gym. And just that quick little power endurance adaptation was enough that I was able to pull it off. But it was like it's been a memorable one because it was kind of like the perfect send Where are you i like stuck the move I'd been falling on and then like almost fell two moves later, like just teetering. And then you still have like some, some 12a climbing into some easier slab after that crux boulder too, so. So yeah, there's a little bit of power endurance was helpful on that one, which I think is the case on a fair bit of the routes there.

Kris Hampton  31:47

I think especially with power endurance on that style of climbing, one of the important things to think about when you're in the gym is like, it's not, it's not the like classic picture of power endurance we have where you're just lunging and falling off but grabbing the holds anyway and somehow staying on, and a really important thing to practice is keeping your composure and not letting yourself completely fall apart. You know, standing on the feet and grabbing little holds and practicing being calm, cool and collected to the best of your ability anyway, in these 3x3’s, or you know, whatever it is that you're using to train your power endurance. I think that's a really important part of it.

Taylor Fragomeni  32:36

Yeah. 100% I think people really miss out on that with power endurance exercises a lot of the time like, it's not just about building the physical adaptation, but right, you got to be able to stay calm when you're pumped a little bit.

Kris Hampton  32:50

Yeah, that's definitely a real thing. When I would, I noticed very early on long before I was coached that when people got pumped, their footwork was the first thing to go, you know, it would just be feet scrabbling around everywhere. And in a place like Ten sleep, you might not have that opportunity. You're in the Red, feet could scramble and they're going to land on something big. It's not going to happen that way on technical limestone though.

Taylor Fragomeni  33:20

No, Yeah.

Kris Hampton  33:22

All right, let's take a take a quick commercial break, we'll come back and I would love to hear some of your like favorite routes, the must do’s, the classics in the area. For the folks who are over planning a trip and getting overwhelmed looking at the guidebook, these are the things they should be doing. 

Kris Hampton  33:45

If you're listening to this episode, while planning a trip to Wyoming then we have got you covered. We now have trip prep training programs available for both wild iris and Ten sleep, three levels for each area: 5.11, 5.12, and 5.13. These plans are delivered through a mobile app with videos for each exercise, many of which have been developed specifically for the demands of techie 10 Sleep limestone, and powerful wild Iris pockets. You'll get weekly progressions, a flexible schedule that can fit nearly any lifestyle, and tips for making the most of your trip to the area. Go to powercompanyclimbing.com/trip-prep To learn more, or you can find the link right there in your show notes. 

Kris Hampton  34:30

All right, we are back and talking about Ten Sleep, what when how to train for Ten Sleep. we've talked a little already about the logistics of the area and some of the things you should keep in mind when you're training. But if you're planning a trip to Ten Sleep now, now's where you get the beta. Let's talk about the absolute must do's. These are the ones at each grade or so, that sort of just say, this is Ten sleep when you're climbing these routes, 5.10 or under:

Taylor Fragomeni  35:09

So the ultimate classic in the area is called beer bong. And that's at the downpour area. And it's 10b. And it's just some low angle climbing up into this crazy like scoop chimney feature. And the reason it's so classic is that you can actually turn around and face outward into the canyon as you're stepping up it, which is a gorgeous view and just a very, like it's got quite an exposure factor. Yeah, for being a 5.10. And that's kind of the one that like, everyone's got to do that one.

Kris Hampton  35:49

That's really cool. You tend to agree if you go and you climb it, you should absolutely do it facing out. Yeah, you've got to have only done a few routes where stemmed out across something facing out from the wall. And it's always such a unique experience that it's super memorable.

Taylor Fragomeni  36:07

Yeah, and the way the features formed too, when you're stepping out, there's just like air underneath you basically. So it's just kind of a crazy feeling. That's right. It's very cool. There's this this other route that's maybe like a lesser known, good one called Death Flake from Hell. And that one's out the… oh my god, I'm totally blanking on the wall.

Kris Hampton  36:30

You'll find it in the guidebook.

Taylor Fragomeni  36:31

 Yeah, they'll find it. 

Kris Hampton  36:33

Actually, I went and found it for you. The wall where Death Flake From Hell can be found is Wall of Denial.

Taylor Fragomeni  36:40

It's this really cool super long 10a that gets steeper the higher you get on it. And kind of climbs this like crazy, like melted looking rock. And I think the reason it isn't regarded as one of the classics is when you're like standing looking at it, it kind of looks like choss. But I promise it's not. Yeah. And there's this cool like just hanging feature and crack that kind of like you follow up. But it's mostly just like sinker jugs.

Kris Hampton  37:14

The name of this route is actually a thing I've been like grappling with in my brain a little bit like the way that we we talk about these things to be either super hard or super scary. And they may not be and oftentimes that like romanticizing that we do about these things hold people back from trying them. So I've been grappling with that, because part of me really likes it. Yeah, calling things badass names. And then the other part of me is like, but nobody's ever going to try this because now they're afraid of it.

Taylor Fragomeni  37:49

It already looks intimidating. And then with that, it being named that, I think if you're a 10a climber, you're probably like, oh, I don't know if I'm gonna do that one.

Kris Hampton  37:58

Yeah. So if you are 10a climber, go do it anyway.

Taylor Fragomeni  38:02

Yeah, it's fun. Promise.

Kris Hampton  38:04

And then you get to tell your friends you did the Death Flake From Hell. Yeah.

Taylor Fragomeni  38:07

And it's not at all sketchy.

Kris Hampton  38:11

I love it. All right, how about 5.11s? What do we got there?

Taylor Fragomeni  38:14

All right there we've got Circus in the Wind that's at the circus wall. It's a super classic 11b at the Circus Wall is kind of tucked up in a side Canyon lower in the canyon. So it's it's just a really cool setting to begin with. You're in like a tighter little little canyon and it's a beautiful like blue and yellow streaked wall. And for that matter, there's actually a 10b on the right side of that wall called step right this way that's also really cool and climbs a sharper red at the top. But circus in the wind is just a really cool pumpy beautiful 5.11 The wall is just amazing and definitely worth checking out. There's not a lot of routes at the wall. So it can get busy if there's a few parties up there. So that's something to keep in mind, but it's worth trying to go to go do that one. Face melter roof. Valhalla is also really cool. I think this one has become a little bit more popular in the last few years. Just a really crimpy like cool 11b/c.  the first pitch of it is lower angle 10a and then you climb out a bulge and up onto a head wall that is a little bit steeper and nice and techy. Like cool. Lots of those directional holds we've been talking about

Kris Hampton  39:38

And I'm just curious. You know, when some of these climbs are getting really popular. How does the rock at Ten Sleep handle it? Does it get more polished, the more popular it becomes?

Taylor Fragomeni  39:49

Yeah. Unfortunately, um, yeah, it's kind of it's kind of wild, actually. Especially in the last like, five years or so how much routes have changed. Yeah,

Kris Hampton  40:03

I personally quite like the polish because it makes me feel really nervous, anxious.

Taylor Fragomeni  40:10

You get really good at holding your body tension on.

Kris Hampton  40:12

Yeah, I sort of like that feeling when I'm sport climbing?

Taylor Fragomeni  40:15

Yeah, I like it sometimes. But it kind of depends on the situation,

Kris Hampton  40:19

Just something to be aware of and know. And that's exactly why we developed our resistors and our diodes footholds that are just all the shiny half of delta x, just to force you to create that same nervousness and anxiety.

Taylor Fragomeni  40:37

And it's worth mentioning, too, that if that's not something that you want to do, I had a really hard time making this list because there's so many routes in Ten Sleep that I just love and would climb over and over again. So even the ones that are like, you know, three stars and below a lot of the time are really, really enjoyable. And so it's it's easy to avoid the stuff that's more heavily trafficked, and still have an awesome time if you want to do that.

Kris Hampton  41:05

Yeah, yeah, that's good to know, too.

Taylor Fragomeni  41:08

There's also another route at Valhalla called Hanoi Hilton, that's an 11d that has some really rad sequences on it, it's kind of got a more boulder restart, and then slabs out a little bit in the middle and then kicks back onto this overhang and has some some really cool pocket moves. And that one's kind of that one's more of like an under the radar classic. I don't see people on it as much. But it's, it's really good.

Kris Hampton  41:34

Is it like an abrupt change from slab to steep? Near the top?

Taylor Fragomeni  41:40

Um, yeah, yep. So you've got like the hard bouldery beginning that's slightly overhanging, and then you probably climb like five, eight for a few bolts on this slab. And you could stand like no hands below the overhang, and then it comes back and gets a little bouldery again.

Kris Hampton  41:56

I think that's a cool opportunity for folks. You know, in a lot of the modern day sport climbing, if we don't get those chances to like, changing angles that often. And I think the slab to overhang angle is a really common angle and like more adventurous climbing. And it, it can be a little heady, going from easy slab to a steep wall. So

Taylor Fragomeni  42:24

and something I totally forgot to mention earlier, too, as far as like skills that are important to have intensely. Being able to rest on route is a big one, for sure. But pacing is huge. Because there's so much there can be variety in the difficulty of the climbing on the route. And this is just true for sport climbing in general, I think. But if you're used to primarily climbing in the gym, things tend to be set to be very consistent, right? And that's not generally the case there. So understanding how to, how to change your climbing pace, whether that is tension or effort or speed is going to be helpful as well.

Kris Hampton  43:05

Yeah, that's important. And, you know, for the folks who may not have ever really, really delved into thinking about pacing, would you say it's a general rule that technical climbing is a little slower, as it gets steeper, you should be moving a little faster, or what's your thought there?

Taylor Fragomeni  43:26

I think that's a general rule for sure. Like everything with climbing, there's always going to be exceptions, you know, if it's low angle terrain, that's easy for you, then maybe you can just run through it and save your feet a little bit. Or if you're really comfortable on that terrain, then you can move more quickly through it even though it's tenuous. And then with the steeper stuff, obviously you're on your arms more if you're someone with endless endurance then maybe you can afford to move more slowly but if you're not then being able to pick the pace up a little bit can be helpful. But since a lot of the a lot of the holds intensely even though they again don't climb like the pockets of Lander are pockety sometimes you can't like move super fast through certain overhanging sections you might have to slow down and be a little bit more precise. So that can be something to keep in mind as well God and you can play with it in the gym by like making link ups or just artificially changing your speed and kind of noticing when it makes sense to do what and why

Kris Hampton  44:28

that's a cool idea. The link up like find two sort of disparate styles that are near each other and find a way to link between those two and have to change your style and your pacing mid boulder mid route.

Taylor Fragomeni  44:43

Yeah, and you can do it multiple times even like a lot of gyms have more than one route per draw line. And generally there'll be like an easier one and a harder one and so you could, you could play with you know, climbing the easy bottom into like a boulder problem on the harder one and then going back to easier and vice versa. Yeah, like that. Just learn how to do that a little bit.

Kris Hampton  45:05

Let's talk 5.12 What are the must do's?

Taylor Fragomeni  45:09

Sleight of Hand at the Dry Wall. This is lower in the canyon again. It's 12 a. It's very cool. Just very classic 10 Sleep. Vert, techy, a harder boulder at the bottom, but still very continuous after actually. So we get that variety piece and..

Kris Hampton  45:29

you're all about the variety. 

Taylor Fragomeni  45:31

There's a lot of variety there. Well, everyone's always like Ten Sleep is soft, and everything's vertical. And that's just like not true.

Kris Hampton  45:39

It's it's funny because I used to be the exact same way. When people would be like, well, the Red's just overhanging endurance. I'm like, it's got this, got this, got this. But in doing all of these episodes, everybody I've talked to when I'm like, let's talk about the, like the archetypal style, the style everybody thinks of and everybody's like, well, there's all these other routes, too. We have to talk about them. Okay, okay, I get it.

Taylor Fragomeni  46:07

All right. So yeah, sleight of hand is archetypal Ten sleep for sure. Very good, not as heavily trafficked, because the drywall is not one of the most popular crags and it's also generally if you're, if you're there in July and August, it's going to be too hot to climb at that wall, because it's lower in the canyon. And it gets sun most of the day. But if you're there on the shoulder seasons, and you just want to climb the ultimate Ten Sleep style then sleight of hand is a great one. 

Kris Hampton  46:36

That's the one. 

Taylor Fragomeni  46:38

Yeah. And the next one I had was this route called Tricks for you. That's at Super Erratic? That one's also 12a. That one, I have a fun story about this one. It is also archetypal Ten Sleep style. But I remember there being up at that crag one day, and there was kind of a bit of a storm rolling and you could like, you know, you can smell it in the air. Yeah, like you're coming. But I was like, I gotta do this route, the drawers are up like I want to, I'm gonna go up and clean it, I want to climb it. And this one's a little bit more slobby. And it's very, very techy, a lot of a lot of small crimps. And as the storm is rolling up the canyon, the wind is picking up more and more. I remember being on the, the techy like slab near the top, and just trying to like, run up the slab between gusts of wind because I was getting like blown off the wall. Basically, it's really balancing and so like a gust of wind could easily teeter you off balance enough to throw you off the route.

Kris Hampton  47:43

And Wyoming wind can be vicious.

Taylor Fragomeni  47:45

I managed to hold on, but it was, it was very memorable for that race. Awesome. Yeah, that one is is really cool. And I don't think that one gets as much traffic as it probably deserves as well. And then in the 10, or the 12+ range. One of my favorites is Esplanada. And that one's 12d, I think the guidebook says, you'll swear it's 13a. But it's it's really cool. That one's out the grasshopper wall in FCR. And it's it's really interesting because that wall tends to be very crimpy technical, a lot of edging and stuff and Esplanada kind of has a different style, even though it's nestled in with all of those other ones. It's bigger moves between pockets and more incut holds a little bit steeper at the bottom. More power in currency for sure. And then it's topped off with just a techy, less steep boulder problem that spits a lot of people off. So it's one of those ones that when needed when you do it. You're just you're either relieved or you know, maybe you're sick of it at that point. I don't know people fall going to the anchors a lot on that one.

Kris Hampton  49:06

actually love it the most when it's like a techie slab sort of boulder at the top, instead of like some hero boulder problem that finishes with the dyno, you know, falling off there makes sense. But when it's turned into super slabby and just no holds. It's really frustrating to have a hard time up there and I love it.

Taylor Fragomeni  49:30

Yeah, it's it's really cool. And there's like there's some options on it too. And so you might figure out one beta and then get up there on the redpoint and be like, Oh, this is not the way to do it on the redpoint actually. And so I think that that gets people a lot and it the holds get smaller at the end too. So if you're pumped from all the the more powerful climbing earlier in the route there is there is a decent rest beforehand but it's not the best rest in the world. It's on like a flatter hole. But yeah, it's so funny that one was one that I was falling off the top over and over again in August one year and then went back in September when it was colder and did it easily. Like what on earth just happened?

Kris Hampton  50:14

That's that's the way it goes. 

Taylor Fragomeni  50:16

 I think the temps help at that wall for sure.

Kris Hampton  50:19

All right. 5.13 and up, what do we got? I've heard a lot about 5.13 and up routes in Ten Sleep over the years, so I'm curious to hear your favorites there, or your must-dos there.

Taylor Fragomeni  50:32

Yeah, there's, there's a lot it's so hard to choose. But I think Dances with Cows, is the neighbor to Esplanada. And it's very, it's 13a, it's very different style, actually, which is sort of funny because they share an anchor. They don't share any climbing but they share an anchor. It it's a great one, I think it's a lot of people's first 13a. It was my first 13a. There's a lot of options through the crux. It's very thin. And also has like a little bit of like a redpoint crux at the end. That's a little trickier. But that one's very classic. A good one to do. I also had Blue Light Special on here, which is its neighbor, very similar. Both of those are like this. I like all of them. It's so hard to choose. That one is very ten sleep. Continuous crimping, very technical. Some pockets as well.

Kris Hampton  51:38

You keep saying continuous crimping. It makes me feel like I have to go now and you'll be there also to actually do some of this. You can come climb with me. Alright, count me in. All right. Great.

Taylor Fragomeni  51:49

Cool. I'm gonna hold you to that. Um, yeah, and then in the, I haven't climbed any of the 5.14’s there. But people really like Galactic Emperor that's at, that's also at fcr. That one's been getting a lot of traffic in the last couple years. got kind of a hard boulder at the bottom and then some easier climbing, but it's still still hard because 14. Yeah. And then a bit of a stinger crux at the top too, I think cool. People have been into that one.

Kris Hampton  52:26

Since you had a hard time choosing through all these grades, let's narrow it down even further. make it even harder. Okay, pick a favorite. And I'm gonna tell all the other routes that you chose this one. So, all right, all of your children are going to be upset with you. 

Taylor Fragomeni  52:41

Okay, well, this is this is tough, but I feel like the routes that I choose as my favorite always have more to do with like the overall experience than the actual climbs or routes, of course. Um, so if I had to choose one, I think Holla at crag six would be the one, that one's 12d, that wall is probably about 100 feet tall. It's one of the taller walls in Ten Sleep. And Holla has like a bit of a crux at the beginning. And then a nice rest. And the reason that I had such a great time on this one was because of the beta that I used through the middle of the route. And I was trying it with a couple of climbers that were like over six feet tall. And I'm 5’5”, I'm not short by any means. But I'm not six feet tall. And there's this one section. It's not it's not a crux of the route by any means. But they were just like backpacking through and reaching from pocket to pocket on it. And for some reason, the positioning of the foot. Just it didn't feel good to me to like do the move statically and so I just launched off of a lower foot and kind of did this crazy barn door toss and then you have to traverse across on some smaller pockets and they were kind of matching across but the feet were just low enough for me that matching across felt like it was spanning me out too much to the point where that I couldn't load the feet as well as I wanted to. Yeah, so I ended up doing this barn door toss into a full rose move. Like fully turned around, like head under my ear. Oh shit. Yeah. And it was so cool. And I remember coming down at one point and one of the guys that was tall that was trying it was like dang, that looks like way more fun for you. And I like, I cannot, I was like maybe this beta is stupid, but it's so cool. I'm like gonna do the roll. And it worked out really well. I love it. And it was such a funny one to where. The last, the day that I sent it I was like feeling kind of trashed and not that psyched, but I was like, Oh, whatever. I'll just try one more time. And I ended up doing it that go but I remember getting to the last, there's one last kind of slopey ish rest but for the redpoint crux, and I hate resting on route, I get so impatient. I just want to keep climbing. But I hung out there forever because I was so shocked to find myself up there that I was like, Okay, here we go. I think, you know, I’d only been trying it for a couple of days. I think my previous high point was probably like halfway there out or something like that. I was like, here we go higher. I'm not even sure I fully remember that redpoint crux, but

Kris Hampton  55:27

The ‘preserve the send’ rest. Yeah. Stay there way longer than you need to.

Taylor Fragomeni  55:32

Yeah, and the view at the top of that crag. Like when you clip the anchors and look out is just amazing, too. And so that's that's one of my favorites, mostly because of the flying barn door toss into a rose move sequence that was really cool.

Kris Hampton  55:46

That's the first time I've ever heard all of those words put together in one sentence.

Taylor Fragomeni  55:50

I know, right? It's a unique experience. That's why it's one of my favorites.

Kris Hampton  55:56

What about the overlooked classics? What are the hidden gems around Ten Sleep that you've done, that nobody ever talks about.

Taylor Fragomeni  56:06

They're out there. I think I mentioned Step Right this Way already up the circus wall. That's just a unique feature, which is really cool, like super sharp right at the top of the wall. That's a good one to do. If you find yourself up at that wall. This next one is definitely a hidden hidden classic because I don't think people climb it very much, but it's called Pre Spice Blow. It's a 10c that is at the Eldorado Coral Club, which is an area in fcr that has a lot of 5.10s but doesn't have like tons of classics really. That was a little bit chossier. But this this route is really cool. It kind of climbs up this huge detached block and it's really long. But you're climbing on the left feature for a while like up an arete at the bottom and then you're kind of climbing on this slab and then the wall tips back and you get closer to the main cliff on the feature that you're climbing on and you actually stem between the main cliff and the hanging arete and it's it's just a really unique position to be in. I hadn't really climbed a feature like that before and then eventually you get higher on the route and you have to transfer back onto the arete that's the other cliff so that one's, that one's pretty cool.

Kris Hampton  57:24

I love anything unique like that.

Taylor Fragomeni  57:26

Same, yeah. that wall also has an 11a called crossbow chaos theory that one is that one's maybe not so much an overlooked classic but I don't always hear people talking about it a lot and it's just a really cool 11a that has a little roof in it little roof pull which is fun. I've already mentioned Hanoi Hilton earlier. Pump Me like a Shotgun is another 11d, there's so many good 11ds in Ten sleep. That's at Valhalla in the munitions area. It's just a, it's easier slab climbing into a steep bulge. That's just like, cool pulling on jugs. That one's really fun. It's it's pumpy for sure. Hence the name. Sounds great. Vulcan Jessery at downtown area is one of my favorite 12as in the canyon. Actually, I've done a lot. That's one of the one of the only ones that I will climb like basically every time I'm at the crag. It's super long. Very Ten sleepy again, archetypal style 

Kris Hampton  58:38

Ten Sleepy. I like that. Yeah, I hadn't even thought of that. Like Ten Sleepy 

Taylor Fragomeni  58:44

Yeah, it's kind of pumpy, it's it's technical. There's a lot of crimps and pockets on it. It's somewhat continuous. Really, really cool one. That's one way… Having the ability to like rest on, in kind of poor stances is gonna be helpful. Or just having enough endurance to not have to. Um, I phoned a friend on, a phone a friend on some of these and was like, what are the, what do you guys think are the overlooked classics? And she mentioned If Dreams were Thunder, it was a 12b that is at the sidewalk buttress. While we're in the canyon, I've never climbed that one actually, maybe I will when I'm there in September. I like now that I know that. But that one I think I think it's like 20 bolts long or something like that. That was monstrously long. Maybe you'd need a 70 meter for that one. I don't know. If I'm remembering correctly it is a cool like roofie overhanging arete type adventure. Cool. Yeah. And then here we are back at the grasshopper wall. There's a 13a there called Slim Jim. That's just to the right of Esplanada. I put draws on it last year and then people were climbing on it as they do when you put draws up on things that don't normally have draws So, yeah, that one's actually pretty cool. It's kind of it's funny because it's, it's nestled in with all these five star routes. And so I think people are like, Oh, that one only gets three stars. Like, who needs it, but it's kind of rad. It has a hard boulder at the bottom and then some easier climbing and then another crux up high into some like techie slab climbing.

Kris Hampton  1:00:23

It sounds like if you're taking a trip to Ten sleep, you should just go to the grasshopper wall.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:00:28

Yeah, I mean, if you're, if you're a 5.13 climber, you will be psyched, most likely, unless you hate crimping and standing on your feet. 

Kris Hampton  1:00:36

Unless you hate good rock climbing.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:00:38

Yeah, unless you hate good rock, then you should reconsider. Um, and side walk is very busy, though, is one of the things that I that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, it's, it's one of the more popular walls in the canyon. And so it's funny, I haven't climbed there as much the last few years, because it's, it's there's just always like, there was one day I walked past that wall last year, and there had to be like, 25 people there. And there's only like, eight routes on the wall. Yeah. Um, so that's something to keep in mind. If you're there in the in the shoulder seasons, it's definitely worth it. But it is higher in the canyon. So the weather can be a little bit trickier too. But the the nice thing is, you know, you can go up there and just see what the deal is. Sometimes you'll get lucky and everyone's resting for the day, and there's not many people at the crag. So it's easy to go there and check it out and then walk to walls that are on the periphery, like have a backup plan, basically.

Kris Hampton  1:01:40

Yeah, that's one of the things I like about Ten sleep, you know, Lander sort of has this setup as well, where all the walls are sort of connected? Is there a best place in Ten Sleep to go for folks who have like a big group of people that they're with at a wide variety of grades? You know, I think that's more and more common nowadays, to have a 5.13 climber climbing with a brand new climber. And everything in between. So where should those groups be going?

Taylor Fragomeni  1:02:14

Yeah, the this is one of the great things about Ten Sleep is that there's actually a lot of options for that, that scenario, specifically, um, downpour wall is really great. There's everything from like, 5.7 to 13+ within the area. Cool. And downtown is really good too, and tends to be less busy. There's, again, within like a five less than five minute walk, there's everything between 10- and 13+. And FCR is good for that. You've got that one's slightly more split spread out. So you know, you might you might find yourself like, more scattered if you're in a group. And that one is maybe slightly, there's a couple good 5.10s up there. But that one's maybe slightly better if you are in a group that's like we have people that want to try like 11+/12a, and people that want to try like 13+ up to 13+. So that's something to keep in mind to lots of classics up there.

Kris Hampton  1:03:22

Is that french cattle ranch area one of the more popular areas? It is? Yeah, I've heard that name a lot more than the others and it's the only area I've ever climbed at.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:03:31

Okay, nice. Yeah. So that Yeah, especially. The Shinto wall is just this big, beautiful wall that has a bunch of like everything on it is like 11d to 12c, I believe. That was really, really popular for climbers that are working in that range. And then grasshoppers, another really popular one at that, in that zone. But there are other other little pockets of climbing in between there. Oh, there's also the back 40 wall up there too, which is very similar to Shinto, but is all like 5.11 climbs. So it's kind of fun because you've got like those three walls, Shinto, back 40, and Grasshopper are all like the archetypal Ten sleep walls, and ones like mostly 5.11s ones mostly 5.12s and ones mostly 5.13s, which is that's cool to have. And they're all within like, 10 minutes of each other. Maybe. Awesome, though. Yeah. And then crag six is a good option for that as well. Again, that crag can also get busy, especially in the hotter months. Like it's a little bit more finicky in the less hot months because that is the highest crag up. But there's everything from 10a to 13d up there as well, I think,

Kris Hampton  1:04:51

yeah, sounds a lot like the red where there's just lots of variety in terms of grades. All right. Nice.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:05:00

Yeah, and crag six is cool too, because there's kind of like three walls and the rightmost wall is kind of tucked away. And it's, I think there's only three routes on it. And a couple of them are 12a, but they're really short and bouldery, either like four or five bolts long. And then you have the middle wall called the rap stars wall that is that massive 100 foot cliff that I was talking about earlier, that is just like, kind of a scooped overhang, it gets a little steeper near the top. And then you have like some some easier climbs in the middle. And then the third wall over is like, more midlength like bouldery routes. So you'd have a little bit of everything. You've got like the moderate boulders, the super long enduro routes, and then like the punchy bouldering midlength route,

Kris Hampton  1:05:49

You’re getting me psyched to go to Ten sleep. Now we're doing rest days, which, you know, this is one of the like, troubles with small towns, tiny, little Western towns, is that there's not a ton to do on rest days, unless you're just psyched to do things in the outdoors, which is also great. But what do you do on rest days in ten sleep?

Taylor Fragomeni  1:06:15

Um, you have got to be able to chill on rest days in Ten Sleep a little bit. like, there's not a lot to do as far as the town goes, for sure. Um, a lot of people, including myself, will just hang out by the creek, you can go swimming, and that's pretty nice. A lot of people just like do work during rest days. But if you're on vacation for real, then you don't need to do this. 

Kris Hampton  1:06:39

You’re rolling your eyes at me as you said work.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:06:43

No, I would never, don’t lie to the listeners. Um, there's, there are cool hikes like higher in the canyon. You can if you are like an active rest day person going for a hike is a great thing to do. It's really beautiful there. You could go scope out whatever crag you're trying to go to and see what the deal is.

Kris Hampton  1:07:08

Are there good restaurants in town?

Taylor Fragomeni  1:07:11

Um, I'm such a bad person to ask about that. Because it's like small town Wyoming and I'm like vegan and yeah, um, there are there are a couple so there's like the Sleepy Coyote.

Kris Hampton  1:07:25

I think there's a brewery. 

Taylor Fragomeni  1:07:27

There's the Ten sleep brewery. They don't generally have food. They'll have like food trucks sometimes that's about it. But their beer is good. And a lot of people do hang out there.

Kris Hampton  1:07:39

I've also heard a lot about Dirty Sally's ice cream.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:07:43

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a rest activity. Just go hang out at Dirty Sally's and eat all the ice cream.

Kris Hampton  1:07:50

Yeah. Do you have a first off? Are you an ice cream eater? If you're vegan?

Taylor Fragomeni  1:07:55

No, no, that would mess me up at this point.

Kris Hampton  1:08:00

I was gonna ask you, though, I asked Lana to tell us her favorite ice cream from Dirty Sally's because I know Lana's very detail oriented in her ice cream.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:08:12

I know we actually were just talking about this a couple of days ago when I ran into her.

Kris Hampton  1:08:21

You're normally like, very against me recording you. You are strangely non-combative this time when I asked.

Lana Stigura  1:08:30

I mean, we're talking about ice cream. I'm willing to talk about ice cream pretty much anytime, to anyone, on any platform. That's how strongly I feel about it. 

Kris Hampton  1:08:40

yeah, I figured that was probably the case. And I'm, sadly I have developed a lactose intolerance. So I will never eat at Dirty Sally's most likely, unless I just accept that I'm gonna, my stomach's gonna hurt the next day.

Lana Stigura  1:08:53

It's worth it. 

Kris Hampton  1:08:55

But is it? I'm not sure.

Lana Stigura  1:08:56

Can't you just take one of those pills? 

Kris Hampton  1:08:58

I haven't tried that yet. Maybe.

Lana Stigura  1:08:59

That seems like worthwhile, at least to try.

Kris Hampton  1:09:03

Okay, I'll give it a shot. When we go to 10 sleep I'll give it a shot. Okay. I need to know. Everyone out there listening needs to know your personal favorite Dirty Sally's concoction.

Lana Stigura  1:09:18

I will say that I'm a little leery to share this out and put it out there only because they often run out and now I feel like I'm only increasing the chances of them running out but…

Kris Hampton  1:09:29

do it for the greater good. 

Lana Stigura  1:09:30

for the greater good because I'm not one to like you know, gatekeep my ice cream secrets. Yeah. Okay, so you're gonna go to Dirty Sally’s. You're gonna get ice cream. That's just like no brainer, especially since you’re probably in ten sleep in the middle of a hot summer and you climbed all day, so it's gonna taste extra good already. But then you have to make some decisions on your flavors and size. You're gonna get two scoops, that's the right choice. And so you have to choose a cone or cup, you know, a receptacle large enough to accommodate two scoops.

Kris Hampton  1:09:57

a receptacle large enough to accommodate?

Lana Stigura  1:10:00

I'm just saying. And I prefer like a kid's cone, like a sugar cone because I like how the ice cream sinks in the bottom better. But if you're waffle cone person, go for it, I just find this to be a little more drippy. You know, at the bottom.

Kris Hampton  1:10:13

I find it hard to believe that you don't have a like, strange hatred for waffle cone people.

Lana Stigura  1:10:19

I mean, they they are larger in general. And so I can see the argument of accommodating more ice cream and I could never argue that you know? Okay, okay, um, it's a personal preference. So to each their own, as long as you can get all the ice cream in there that you need. And you need two scoops, because you have to get two different flavors.

Kris Hampton  1:10:34

Got it, I just know you as a judgy person. So…

Lana Stigura  1:10:37

I keep my, I reserve my judgments for the important stuff. So the, the key here is you need your ice cream to be two scoops, and you need one on the bottom and one on the top. None, no like side by side bullshit. So if you get a cup, make sure you specify this. And on the bottom, you need a scoop of Graham Slam, because that's gonna have like a little bit of a crust flavor to it.

Kris Hampton  1:10:58

Graham Slam?

Lana Stigura  1:10:58

Graham Slam, it has chunks of graham crackers in it. And then on top of that the second scoop has to be Huckleberry. And so then what you have to do is you have to strategically take your bite so that you get a little bit of Grand Slam and a little bit of Huckleberry and…

Kris Hampton  1:11:12

Wait, how do you do that? If one's on top of the other?

Lana Stigura  1:11:15

Yeah, you have to eat where they meet, you know, take your bites in the middle. You have to be smart about it. It takes a little practice. And then every bite will taste like Huckleberry Pie. It's amazing. 

Kris Hampton  1:11:28

Do you get it all over your face trying to eat in the middle two scoops?

Lana Stigura  1:11:31

if you're doing it right. It's worth it.

Kris Hampton  1:11:36

What do we call it? Is it on the menu?

Lana Stigura  1:11:39

I mean, all the flavors are just on the menu and you just choose whatever you want. I don't think that specific combination is noted in any way. But um, this ice cream is just also the best ice cream in the whole world. It is my favorite. And it's hard to find. It's Wilcoxson's ice cream, which comes from a small town, Livingston, Montana. Yeah, I'm not lying. It's also, the only other place that I found it. I mean, I think you can get it in groceries and things in that area. But if you're not living there like we are, even if you're living kind of close, which we are, you still can't get it here. But where else you can get it is if you are in Yellowstone National Park. It's their like Official Vendor ice cream. So all the concession stands in Yellowstone during the summer also have this ice cream.

Kris Hampton  1:12:18

Got it but I think Harper's downstairs making noise, she likes it.

Lana Stigura  1:12:21

She likes it. She's gonna have it this summer. Um, I do think something about it, though, tastes the best after a long day of climbing at Dirty Sallys.

Kris Hampton  1:12:30

Do you have a name for this concoction?

Lana Stigura  1:12:33

Heaven? Huckleberry, Huckleberry pie in a cone? 

Kris Hampton  1:12:37

You and I both are people that love to smush names together and give different names. So I think there needs to be a play off of graham as in grandmother, grandma...

Lana Stigura  1:12:49

Maybe? Maybe? I don't know, but it's the best. And I mean, sometimes they're out of flavors. I think they're out of Graham Slam pretty frequently because it is that good. So you may have to make some substitutions, which I've had to do in the past, which I don't prefer but you gotta do what you gotta do. So I don't know. I wish everybody the best of luck that they will be able to experience this. If you think that you're gonna run out of time, go in the morning before you go rock climbing. Get a little boost for your day, it doesn't have to be at the end of the day. Make sure you check their hours, Dirty Sally's hours can be a little wonky sometimes depending on the day of the week. Just do what you can to prioritize it. Prioritize the ice cream.

Kris Hampton  1:13:28

Get your grandma's Huckleberry Pie.

Lana Stigura  1:13:31

Yeah, it's so good. 

Kris Hampton  1:13:32

Graham-ma's Huckleberry Pie.

Lana Stigura  1:13:35

It's the best part of every Ten sleep trip I've ever taken, every time.

Kris Hampton  1:13:41

Not the rock climbing, the ice cream?

Lana Stigura  1:13:43

The rock climbing is great, but the Ice cream is phenomenal. 

Kris Hampton  1:13:46

Okay, well, we're going back to the episode now. 

Kris Hampton  1:13:55

Coffee, are there coffee shops?

Taylor Fragomeni  1:13:57

Um so Dirty Sally's has coffee as well. You can get coffee there.

Kris Hampton  1:14:01

Okay. Okay.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:14:03

That's kind of it though. There's not much to do in ten sleep. If you're looking for like, fun activities that are not outdoor related.

Kris Hampton  1:14:12

Yeah, there is Thermopolis, is how far away do you know?

Taylor Fragomeni  1:14:16

I don't know. But that's like between here and there.

Kris Hampton  1:14:20

So probably an hour, hour plus a little? and Thermopolis is a cool little hot springs town. Definitely an option too. It has like pools that are fed by the thermal hot springs and so they're different different temperatures. Some are really hot, some are more like swimming pools but none are cold cold water. Yeah. And those are kind of neat and fun and there's a lot of fossils and dinosaur stuff in the museums there. It's a pretty neat little area to explore and feels really touristy so if you're in for that kind of thing.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:14:58

Yeah, Buffalo is an option too. Yeah, so that's like east of 10 sleep. So you actually drive up over the mountain pass. It's a really scenic drive. And buffalo is a little bit bigger of a town. So they've got a couple grocery stores, they have a couple coffee shops, they have ice cream as well. And there's a public pool there that is free that also has free showers. And so that's nice, too. 

Kris Hampton  1:15:23

Cool. Yeah, what's the camping situation like in Ten Sleep?

Taylor Fragomeni  1:15:26

Um, so there's the Ten Sleep Rock Ranch. It's like the hub, the scene hub, if you're not into camping in the same place as a ton of other people. The old highway that kind of parallels the newer highway that goes up the canyon is just a dirt road that you can camp anywhere along it basically. They generally have, during the busy season, they'll have a couple of porta potties along the the old road, which is really nice. And you should definitely use those if you're camping in that area. And at the bottom of the canyon, like right at the start of the old highway, there is a Forest Service campground as well. And there you can actually camp for free in the offseason, like when it's closed, so you won't like when it's open. There's a campground host and there's water and stuff like that. There's like a dumpster to use. But the amenities get taken away in the offseason and you can camp there for free, which is pretty nice.

Kris Hampton  1:16:24

Cool. And I know I know that the rock ranch has Wi Fi and showers and yeah, yeah, a shared like cook space, I think?

Taylor Fragomeni  1:16:35

um, there's a sink and a fridge that that what it is, yeah, there's not like a kitchen space. But the creeking there is awesome. Like they've they've built benches and stuff there. So it's a it's a good spot to like, go hang out. If you're on a rest day and you want to be able to have Wi Fi, there's no cell service in the canyon, which is something I haven't mentioned yet. So that's something to keep in mind.

Kris Hampton  1:17:00

I didn't realize there was no cell service there. So it's kind of I love it. Rifle-esque in that way.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:17:06

Yeah, you can just go and unplug for a few days.

Kris Hampton  1:17:10

Yeah. Isn't it nice that you can get Wi Fi in there? When there's no cell service? I'm all about no cell service. But no Wi Fi is really hard for me to spend more than 10 hours. Yeah, I can't work. It's it's game over for me. So

Taylor Fragomeni  1:17:26

yeah. And in the busy season for the camping, if like, like the rock ranch will fill up for sure, you can make reservations there at certain points in the year. But if that's full, and you drive up the old road, and that's also pretty full, because there's not, there's a lot of sites along the old road. But some places are more flat than others. And if you're like camping in your car or looking for a good tent spot, then there's a chance that on the busier weekends like that will fill up as well. There's, if you keep driving higher up in the canyon, there's all sorts of forest service roads and stuff like that. So you can always find something.

Kris Hampton  1:18:05

Yeah, Wyoming is a pretty easy state to camp in. Some of the western states are not so easy. Yeah, Wyoming is pretty chill. There's also a local climbers coalition, the Bighorn climbers coalition that I think we should definitely mention. You know, those folks do a lot of work in that area for access and replacing bolts and things like that. 

Taylor Fragomeni  1:18:28

So trail work, yes, generally a couple, at least days of doing work at the trail on the trails or at the crags, because some of the crags have pretty like bad erosion at this point. So they'll go up and build platforms and stuff like that. So it's a little bit nicer.

Kris Hampton  1:18:46

Yeah, so consider looking into those folks and donating to the Bighorn climbers coalition. And we'll have a bunch of a bunch of other details in the blog post about guidebooks and restaurants in town and places to stay closest airports, things like that, in that blog post, so the links will be right there in your show notes. Go check those out if you've got a trip coming up or considering a trip and looking at the logistics. I'm psyched now.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:19:21

You guys, I got Kris Hampton psyched on sport climbing! It's happening!

Kris Hampton  1:19:26

I think I'm gonna see you there in September. You're gonna have to remind me because I'll get psyched in another direction before then.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:19:34

Oh, don't worry, I'll remind you. 

Kris Hampton  1:19:36

but as of right now I'm psyched to get to Ten Sleep. Thanks for this. I appreciate you sitting down and chatting about it. I love hearing about the places that people love. Especially if I haven't been there. So thanks.

Taylor Fragomeni  1:19:54

Yeah, course.

Kris Hampton  1:19:58

Okay, don't forget to check out the Trip Prep Plans for both Wild Iris and Ten sleep. Taylor applied her expertise to the Ten Sleep plans. So you can expect to see some of the drills and concepts that we talked about here, as well as many more. These are eight week programs tailored to the specific demands of the area. The first week is a prep week and then seven weeks of training to build strength and stamina followed by power and power endurance that then tapers into your trip so that you can show up prepared. We have three levels of each program: 5.11, 5.12, and 5.13 so that you can find the one to fit you. You can find those at powercompanyclimbing.com/trip-prep Or at the link in your show notes. You'll also find ways that you can work directly with Taylor either through us or through her company Tangent Climbing and links to follow her on the socials. We are @PowerCompanyClimbing on the Instagram, Facebook and YouTube, but never the Twitter because we don't tweet, we scream like eagles.