Episode 34: What is Success with Dave Chancellor and Yusuf Daneshyar live at Climb So iLL

Our very first live in front of an audience, live streaming on facebook recording!  With the number of things that could have gone wrong, this went REALLY well.  We talk with Dave Chancellor of the famous So iLL brothers, and Yusuf Daneshyar, co-owner of the Climb So iLL gym in St. Louis about how we all define success and the different paths we took to get there.  

Thanks to Climb So iLL for having us out and making us feel like family, and thanks to the whole St. Louis community who welcomes us every time with open arms and delicious tacos.  We'll be back.  

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:02

Everybody, Kris here. Today's episode is our very first episode recorded live in front of an audience. And it was also streamed live on Facebook. And I've done no editing at all other than adjusting sound levels. And because we were in a big warehouse type event space, it's not the usual sound quality that I've come to expect. But it's honestly it's pretty damn good for for a live recording. So huge thanks to all the people over at So iLL, and at Climb So iLL for making our visit absolutely amazing. Nate and I were there for a week. I emceed the So iLL Showdown. And then Nate and I ran several workshops. And then we recorded this live podcast at the gym. So big, big thanks to those guys, I really appreciate them giving it a chance and letting us do our first one there. And of course, I want to say a huge thanks to everybody who came out and supported and bought t shirts and did a workshop and came for the podcast, and just everybody who expressed to us, you know, their appreciation of what we do. We have nothing but appreciation and love for you guys. So thanks. And we will be back to St. Louis before long. And hopefully we'll be bringing one to all of all of everyone else's town out there. See you guys soon. 

Kris Hampton  01:34

It's It's live. Dave saw it on the Facebook. So if you guys are on the Facebooks watching, and for some reason, this feed cuts out it's because we're all technically deficient. And in in our version of live that meant we're doing in front of live humans. And then I got all sorts of messages saying where can we stream it live? And I said, that's a good question. I don't know. So we're figuring it out for you. So hopefully this stays running. If it doesn't, sorry, you'll hear the audio tomorrow. And we're gonna be getting started in just a minute. You guys good to go? Okay.

Kris Hampton  02:48

What's up, everybody. I'm your host, Kris Hampton. Welcome to the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. We're here at Climb. So iLL with a couple of the owners and these guys have a whole bunch of titles between them. And I could run through them. But I think we'll get to that tonight in the podcast. We're joined by, of course, Nate, who you guys all know. And also Yusuf Daneshyar and Dave Chancellor. And we're going to talk tonight about about success and how we define it in the climbing world and, and in the industry and just in our own climbing in general, and the path that we took to get there. You know, and I think we all took pretty different paths. So I think it's interesting to see that there's so many ways to make a living in the climbing industry, because that's what we're all doing at this point, you know, where we were all climbers first and climbers at heart. But we've all found a way to pursue our passions and, and make a living off of it. So why don't we start by Nate, how long have you been climbing?

Nate Drolet  03:59

I've been climbing about 13 years. 

Nate Drolet  04:01

13 years. So he's a little longer than you Yusuf, right?

Yusuf Daneshyar  04:05

Yeah, right around 10.

Kris Hampton  04:07

 Okay.Yusuf said 10. And you've been climbing 

Dave Chancellor  04:10

Around maybe 20 years, but I'm well beyond my prime.

Kris Hampton  04:14

You said 15 years, like five minutes ago, you're getting

Dave Chancellor  04:16

I think I'm up to 25 years. I have trouble with math Kris.

Kris Hampton  04:22

I don't doubt that for a second actually.

Dave Chancellor  04:25

I just found out that my iPhone has a calculator on it.

Kris Hampton  04:29

Does it really? 

Dave Chancellor  04:30

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  04:30

Do you know how to access it? 

Dave Chancellor  04:31

It's a big deal. 

Kris Hampton  04:33

Because I have no idea how to access my calculator.

Dave Chancellor  04:36

And how long have you been climbing young man?

Kris Hampton  04:38

I've been climbing 22 years I think. 

Dave Chancellor  04:42

Okay.

Kris Hampton  04:42

 I think it's it's a little foggy at this point. But I think 22 years. Are you both from Southern Illinois or St. Louis area?

Dave Chancellor  04:51

Yeah. Originally St. Louis. Spent a lot of time on the road traveling climbing. Moved down to Illinois for, gosh, almost 10 years and back here family friends work every everything kind of pulled me back to this direction. So I like the city. I like the heartbeat. I just love it here.

Kris Hampton  05:09

Cool. You fit in here for sure. The city seems to love you too.

Dave Chancellor  05:12

 Fake it till you make it. 

Kris Hampton  05:15

Yusuf where did you grow up?

Yusuf Daneshyar  05:17

Yeah, so when my parents moved to America, of all places, they decided to move to Carbondale, Illinois. 

Kris Hampton  05:23

Really?

Yusuf Daneshyar  05:23

So of like every other place they could have gone, they settled in Carbondale. So we lived in Carbondale for a few years and then moved to Glen Carbon, Illinois. So born and raised in Illinois, and then moved to St. Louis for school. That's kind of what brought me here.

Dave Chancellor  05:38

Yusuf, you're telling me they could have moved to California, Colorado?

Yusuf Daneshyar  05:42

They could have been in California.

Dave Chancellor  05:43

And they ended up in Southern Illinois,

Yusuf Daneshyar  05:45

Southern Illinois is beautiful. Best kept secret.

Dave Chancellor  05:49

I think he wrote a guidebook around that topic, huh.

Yusuf Daneshyar  05:51

Haha yeah.

Kris Hampton  05:53

So did you start climbing at Jackson Falls or one of the areas right around Carbondale? 

Yusuf Daneshyar  05:58

No, you know, I kind of wandered into a climbing gym. I had just gotten let go from an internship at a radio station here in St. Louis. They didn't think I was a team player. So they they cut me from the team. So I had nothing else to do. And I was just walking around and kind of wandered in this climbing gym. And, you know, from then on, I just fell in love with it and didn't realize it, but I ended up dedicating my life to it. 

Kris Hampton  06:28

Okay. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  06:29

And shortly after that, you know, after I realized that there was climbing in Southern Illinois. I was there, you know, every opportunity, every week.

Kris Hampton  06:38

So you were closer to climbing before you found it. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  06:41

Yeah,

Kris Hampton  06:42

 You moved further away and found it afterward. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  06:44

Exactly. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  06:45

 Yeah. That's kind of cool. When did you discover it Dave?

Dave Chancellor  06:49

Let's see. My uncle took me out for a top rope session when I was 15. And just fell in love with it. I knew instantly that this is what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I've shared the story many times. But after that we came, after that trip, we built a small climbing wall in my parents' basement, and we started charging the neighborhood kids to come over and use the climbing wall.

Kris Hampton  07:11

So the beginning of Climb So iLL happened inyour parents' basement.

Dave Chancellor  07:13

Haha my parents basement and it was a it was one point it was really successful. Because we're like, wow, you know, I'm 15 years old and we're making $100 a month and I thought I will never leave my parents' house. This is incredible. And it came with a lot of stumbling blocks. I we started making our own holds out of sand. I remember one point my brother decided to wash these holds in the dishwasher and just wrecked my parents' brand new dishwasher. 

Kris Hampton  07:40

Haha good job Dan.

Dave Chancellor  07:41

Chalk dust through the entire house and HVAC system. But all that aside, climbing grabbed me. It helped me you know, connect with trips, traveling, people and just inspired me, you know, down this road. So

Kris Hampton  07:54

Yeah, and Nate, you grew up in Houston?

Nate Drolet  07:57

Yes.

Kris Hampton  07:57

How on earth do you find climbing in Houston? 

Nate Drolet  08:00

Climbing gym.

Kris Hampton  08:01

 Climbing gym. What was what climbing gyms were going on at the time?

Nate Drolet  08:04

At the time it was Stone Moves and Texas Rock Gym. But I was climbing over at Stone Moves, buddy of mine, John Muse, had just bought it. And yeah, had a couple friends who were going and it seemed awesome. And then started going and man I couldn't stop.

Kris Hampton  08:19

Did John introduce you to it?

Nate Drolet  08:21

Yeah, he actually took me out for a couple of my first climbing trips too.

Kris Hampton  08:25

Yeah, that's that's kind of how I got started too. A friend introduced me to the gym. And then I didn't go back for a while. I was a gymnast beforehand, so I kind of took to it immediately. And I went a couple of times, and then got into a bunch of trouble. And while I was locked up from the trouble, I decided I need a better hobby and rock climbing was that hobby, you know, so the the day I got out of lockup, I went straight to the climbing gym and bought a membership. Believing that the climbing and the climbing community was going to be the thing that saved me and ultimately it was. So so I think it was a good choice. One of the few I've made but

Dave Chancellor  09:06

It's it's crazy how it just grabs you like I try to think of anything else that I've run into that grabs you like that it has the ability to like flip your life upside down.

Kris Hampton  09:16

Yeah, immediately it can all just take over for sure. So when did the whole company start for you?

Dave Chancellor  09:24

Like our official launch I think was 2002 at the Phoenix Bouldering Contest

Kris Hampton  09:29

 But you were making holds way before that.

Dave Chancellor  09:31

 We started before that. It was a lot of trial and error trying to figure out formulas and processes for, you know, manufacturing and stuff and 

Kris Hampton  09:40

You say figure out formulas like you were little scientists kids in there. Were you just winging it or you actually figuring out formulas?

Dave Chancellor  09:47

We knew absolutely nothing. I remember the first you know, our first visit with a urethane manufacturer and we showed up in flip flops and shorts and long hair. Just rolled out of bed and walked into to the boardroom, hoping to gain some sort of respect out of these guys and communicate our message of what we're trying to do. Pretty much they laughed us out of the room except for one guy. I don't know if he had kids or just felt compassion, but he probably just felt sorry for us. But he really took us under his wing and helped kind of us work through the process and work through, you know, mold creation and trying to figure out how to how to take a concept to market or to a product that, you know, eventually we can deliver to a customer. 

Kris Hampton  10:30

And how old were you then?

Dave Chancellor  10:32

 Oh, gosh, let's see. So I think I was hovering around maybe 18-19. Somewhere in there.

Kris Hampton  10:39

That's a cool schooling to get at that age.

Dave Chancellor  10:41

 Yeah. And it, you know, I just clowned around a lot. My brother was

Kris Hampton  10:46

You still clown around a lot. 

Dave Chancellor  10:48

This guy? My brother was a great driving force through all of this. I felt like we we had the perfect partnership. He did all the work and I just kind of hung out.

Kris Hampton  11:01

Why don't we have Dan up on the board then? What's going on here? We got the wrong brother. So Yusuf, I know you kind of live the dirtbag life for a while you know you were a full time climber guy in the Red for a while, right? 

Yusuf Daneshyar  11:16

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  11:17

How when did that come about?

Yusuf Daneshyar  11:18

You know, a lot of people thought it was a bold move. And I have to like, absolutely deny that claim. Like I had nothing else to do out of college. You know, I graduated with a degree in English literature, which didn't exactly open a lot of doors for me. So my dad and I were talking about this the other day, like, I just had this moment where I realized if I'm getting turned down at every job, and every job interview is stopping right after that interview. I can get turned down from jobs anywhere in the country. I didn't need to be in Southern Illinois to get shut down. 

Kris Hampton  11:55

Yeah totally.

Yusuf Daneshyar  11:55

So then

Kris Hampton  11:56

So you went to Slade, Kentucky. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  11:57

Yeah so I went to Slade, haha yeah. That was the first stop. I stayed in Slade. Linda was, was great. Let me stay at her place. And maybe about six months into that I realized, like, you know, I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life, but I really enjoy this. And so then I just, it was less of a decision. And just more of like Dave said, you just connect with the right people. And

Kris Hampton  12:25

Did you stay there through the summers?

Yusuf Daneshyar  12:27

No, I got out of there during the summers. I spent one summer there and it was a mistake. And you know, I started to learn that you know, you can travel seasonally, you know, you can beat the heat, you can get out. 

Kris Hampton  12:37

Where were you going?

Yusuf Daneshyar  12:38

 So most summers were in Lion's Head. 

Kris Hampton  12:41

Oh, cool.

Yusuf Daneshyar  12:42

 Yeah, stayed up there with a few of my friends there. Or we'd make it out to Rifle or Maple, you know, just anywhere where it wasn't humid. So

Kris Hampton  12:51

And how are you funding these travels at that point, since your English Lit degree wasn't paying for it?

Yusuf Daneshyar  12:57

So the first year I actually had saved quite a bit of money. You know, I was pretty conservative,

Kris Hampton  13:04

 Like from college jobs you saved from

Yusuf Daneshyar  13:06

 Yeah, exactly. Just like and so that allowed me to make it through the first year. And then once that started to run low, I realized anyone can get a credit card. And 

Dave Chancellor  13:21

They're just giving them away.

Yusuf Daneshyar  13:22

They just give them away you know? So I think I got like my first Discover card. And I didn't have a permanent address, so I was never getting the bill. 

Kris Hampton  13:33

Oh, yeah, I remember the Discover card.

Yusuf Daneshyar  13:35

 Yeah, so I just, you know, I funded that next year and a half all on Discover.

Yusuf Daneshyar  13:41

Did your parents eventually call you and say there are bill collectors knocking down the door?

Yusuf Daneshyar  13:47

No, you know, I got I was really fortunate. My parents were really supportive. 

Kris Hampton  13:51

They just paid your bill?

Yusuf Daneshyar  13:53

No, no, no, they absolutely do not pay my bill. No, because I I came back to that. That was my responsibility. 

Kris Hampton  13:59

Good job parents.

Yusuf Daneshyar  14:00

You know, yeah, they did a great job. So, no they were really supportive. They knew that I, you know, that I really wasn't sure what direction I wanted my life to go in. But climbing had been this really positive thing for me. And even though they didn't understand it, they liked the effect it was having on me, you know, and we were talking about this the other day like it, it really teaches you how to be how to set a schedule, how to set goals, how to achieve those goals. It really teaches you how to live simply, which is

Nate Drolet  14:34

You learn how to be really frugal. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  14:36

Absolutely. And so I think they they saw that I was getting an education on the road, even though I wasn't jumping right back into grad school.

Kris Hampton  14:45

Yeah, and you know, that's, you know what you were saying about climbing kind of taking over Dave. I think that's that's kind of a point we all come to whether we're dirt bagging or still working a nine to five job or in college. or whatever. At some point all of our brains are going, how can we just climb all the time? You know, how can we figure out how to make this work? And yes, it isn't necessarily for everyone. Why did you three guys decide that, that's the direction you were going? Like, was it was it just totally an addiction? Is that is that what happened do you think?

Dave Chancellor  15:27

In terms of climbing taking over our lives?

Kris Hampton  15:29

 Yeah. Like why why forego everything else that society has told you? This is how you're supposed to live your life and go, nevermind, I'm gonna go rock climbing. 

Dave Chancellor  15:39

Sure. I mean, I think my story is much like you said, and probably a bunch of us is, you know, heading down the, the trajectory of getting a degree and starting to, you know, plug yourself into the work machine. And at that point, I climbing to grab me and it was time to check out. But I mean, it comes with challenges. It's living on the road, it's broke, it's suffering for it. You're constantly struggling between. I think it's fighting that coming, you know, back back to reality back to nine, five and trying to push forward and stay on the road. I don't know. I think for me, it was felt like the people I met on the road, the people that mean to this day, I can still see those people that impacted me as I was on the road. And they were so welcoming, invite us into our homes, they climb with us, they I don't know, just like the fabric of the community is what just grabbed me. So it was like, it was like, the climbing and the community is what attracted me to, to this sport.

Kris Hampton  16:44

Yeah, that's cool to hear. Because I think that's what I see you doing in this gym. Anyway, you know, when I, when I come to this gym, I'm like, and I've said this to everyone I've talked to about Climb So iLL, that, you know, every two out of three people have on a Climb So iLL shirt, or So iLL bag, or So iLL shoes or something, you know, they're all so proud to rep this brand that you guys have built. And that's why we love coming here. Because we're all about trying to build the community around, you know, this thing that we're doing, and we see how well you guys have done it. So it's not surprising to me at all that, that you keep saying, you know, the community drew you in, because I think that's, I think that's your strength, for sure is building this community.

Dave Chancellor  17:30

I think it boils down to just a genuine love for people and like giving them respect and the time that they deserve. And it's the same thing we want. Technology pulls us, you know, work pulls us family pulls us but it's just like, it's the people that I gravitate to.

Kris Hampton  17:47

Yeah, for sure.

Yusuf Daneshyar  17:49

Yeah and the lifestyle on the road is really simple. You don't have, there's not a lot of things that you have to do. You don't have to be somewhere by a certain time. So life just moves a little slower. And I think I was really, I that was really attractive that I didn't have I didn't really have to be anywhere on time.

Kris Hampton  18:11

Did you have constant struggles? Like, why am I not using my degree or why did I spend all that money? Or did you just go full tilt into, I'm just gonna live this dirtbag life?

Yusuf Daneshyar  18:23

Yeah, like for two and a half years, it was definitely full tilt. Like I it didn't even occur to me that I should be doing something else. And like Dave said, it was the the people really helped encourage you to keep doing it. Because it's such a difficult thing to do. You know, the sport is difficult. The lifestyle is hard. Figuring out a way to make it last can be challenging, but you surround yourself with such good people, they just help you. They just keep you going, which is great. I think the other reason I stayed in it, as long as I did was it was the one thing I did that gave me confidence. You know, it. And I tell this to kids on our climbing team all the time, you know, if you can rock climb, you can do anything, right? This, this is something that seems so difficult and unapproachable. But if you just put a little bit of time into it, you figure it out. And you can make impossible things look effortless, right? And so, to me, once I realized, like I can if I can live on the road, and climb anywhere in the US and network with people all over the world. Like I can, I can do anything. So that was really attractive about climbing for me.

Kris Hampton  19:43

Yeah, yeah, I think that's huge. Climbing teaches us so much about life in general, you know, and so many things that we can take into the rest of our life and our business and our work and our family or whatever. Nate, your dad told me something really funny that I kind of want to bring up.

Nate Drolet  20:01

 You probably shouldn't.

Kris Hampton  20:05

 And, and I think this really illustrates this whole, like, climbing grabs you thing. You know, when Nate was, you might have been already gone away to school or something and your dad was like, well, let's let's get you a new car, you know, you, your car is falling apart. 

Nate Drolet  20:24

No, it had fallen apart. I rolled it. 

Kris Hampton  20:26

Okay.

Nate Drolet  20:27

I had a 4Runner and I hydroplaned it into a ditch and I rolled it. 

Dave Chancellor  20:30

How old were you?

Nate Drolet  20:32

I was like, 18 I think, yeah,

Dave Chancellor  20:34

Cooking with gas.

Kris Hampton  20:36

That's a rough time. 

Nate Drolet  20:36

I still miss that 4Runner.

Kris Hampton  20:40

And your dad was like, well, let's get you a new car. And Nate's like, Well, can I just have the van in the driveway? You know, and he Nate wanted the van. You know, what, what college kid wants the van in the driveway. You know, I think that's such a climber thing to do. So, you know why? Why choose that over the the college life, the cool kid life?

Nate Drolet  21:05

I don't know. It just kind of. I feel like that's how a lot of things have happened is just, it's sort of naturally happened like, so I rolled my 4Runner and this was over Thanksgiving break. I was driving up to the Red. I had just gotten better from having broken a collarbone and

Kris Hampton  21:22

 Doing what? 

Nate Drolet  21:24

Riding a bicycle.

Kris Hampton  21:26

Haha yeah, I broke my femur the same way. Stay away from bikes

Dave Chancellor  21:30

And unicycles.

Kris Hampton  21:32

Haha  unicycles. Yes. 

Dave Chancellor  21:33

Carry on Nate.

Nate Drolet  21:34

Any pedaled wheeled vehicle. So I had just gotten better from breaking my collarbone. I was like, oh, I'll go up for Thanksgiving. Texas was way too far to drive. I was in Chattanooga at the time. So it was really far to drive back to Texas to go see my family for Thanksgiving. So I would always go to Miguel's for Thanksgiving. So I was driving up. collarbone was finally good. I was like cleared to climb. I was like, okay, it's gonna be awesome. And rolled my 4Runner and actually ended up messing my collarbone back up from where the seatbelt lays right over it. 

Dave Chancellor  22:06

Geez

Nate Drolet  22:07

But my dad was awesome. He just he was like, hey, like you need a vehicle so that you can get back to college because you're now in BFE, Kentucky. So he drove the van all the way up to Kentucky. And then the

Kris Hampton  22:21

Your dad is just like the sweetest man ever. You know that right?

Nate Drolet  22:24

Yeah, I I acquired none of that. Yeah, so we drove it up and hung out with me at the Red for a little while. And so I was driving around until he was like, okay, you'll drive that till Christmas break. Thankfully, my 4Runner, I had full insurance on it at the time because I was still making payments on it. And he was just like, you know, we'll figure something out. Like, you know, like, what do you have in mind? I was like, I don't know but man as I'd be driving that van, everyone be like, dude, you should like pull the seats out and build a bed in that thing. I was like, it's not my van. It's just my dad's.

Kris Hampton  22:56

All the chicks are flocking to Nate for his van. 

Nate Drolet  22:58

Bitches flock. Yeah, exactly. For the Chrysler Town and Country. And I still remember the conversation to like, about just about to drive home, I may have been on my way home. And I was talking to my dad and I was just like, what would what would you think about me buying the van off you? And there was a full like, 10 second pause. And he's like, Nate, I almost dropped the phone. What did you just say again? I was like, I want to buy the van. He's like, and so we talked about it for like, I was driving home for Christmas. So we talked for like the next hour about exactly what I want to build. I think I got home at like two in the morning. 

Kris Hampton  23:32

And he's ready to build.

Nate Drolet  23:34

 No shit. Yeah. He's just like, he's sitting there like a yellow sketchpad. He's like, Okay, so what do you have in mind? And so I described everything. I don't think I woke up till like, 1pm the next day, and like, I come out to the garage, and he's like, almost completely done building and he was all psyched. Yeah.

Dave Chancellor  23:49

 Geez, he bought it for $8. He's ready to roll.

Nate Drolet  23:51

Yeah, exactly.

Dave Chancellor  23:54

That's incredible. 

Nate Drolet  23:55

That was awesome. Yeah, he's super supportive. So

Dave Chancellor  23:58

It's interesting, like we are so blessed. And I think about this often, like we stand on the generations before us. I had this moment when I was, my son, Milo is almost two. I'm jogging down the street in a $500 stroller that my parents bought for us, like, incredible. I had this moment. And the week before my dad took me around Sedalia, Missouri. It's a real small town and he showed, you know, we go by grandpa's house and we go by great grandpa's house. And he showed me great grandpa's house. I mean, it was tiny. I mean, 600 700 square feet. The bathroom was an outhouse in the backyard. And he worked, you know, his his knuckles to the bone. And then my grandpa worked incredibly hard. My dad got an education degree, you know, went down that course and worked. I mean, he's still working. And like, every generation is provided more and more and more and now with a son myself. I feel like my whole mentality has changed now. My job is to provide for that little terrorist so he can provide for the next terrorists.

Yusuf Daneshyar  25:06

Yeah, and you know, I think that's one thing that we all share in common here is like, there's no secret to success. But a big part of it is surrounding yourself with the right people. And the three of us were really fortunate just to have amazing parents, who, you know, didn't quite understand why we wanted to do this, but could see that we were passionate about it. We were serious about it. And, you know, they were incredibly supportive.

Kris Hampton  25:36

Yeah, and I don't think it you know, I don't think it has to be your parents or family or, you know, any kind of relation because, you know, I feel the same way. Like, I was fortunate to have these mentors who were amazing. My parents were horrible people. So they're totally out of the picture by the time I find climbing, but, but the people who took me in, you know, a guy named Chris Eklund, who was a manager at the climbing gym, and Josh Dees, who was also another manager at the climbing gym, and who's now actually a patron of the podcast. So, you know, these guys have stayed with me throughout my entire climbing career. And, and that's huge for me, you know, I was just a punk kid coming out of, you know, being in trouble and potentially going away for a long time. And these guys kind of held me to a higher standard, you know, and they, they treated me as if I was an equal. And I hadn't really experienced that before. So it doesn't have to be parental, you know, it doesn't have to be family. It can be just the climbing community. I think it saved a lot of souls. Yeah.

Dave Chancellor  26:52

That's a good point. It's, it's a dysfunctional family that seems to operate at a high level.

Kris Hampton  26:57

Yeah, true. It really, really is. Maybe that's why I felt at home there. It's so dysfunctional already. But so speaking of dysfunctional, I was talking to a mutual friend of ours, Chris DeCioccio. And I remember Chris from when he was a 14 year old starting climbing in Cincinnati. And he told me these stories about your, your shop across the street from a strip club, up it was in Carbondale, right?

Dave Chancellor  27:27

 Yep. Southern Illinois.

Kris Hampton  27:28

Yeah. Talk to me about that a little bit.

Dave Chancellor  27:30

It was the best and worst idea ever.

Kris Hampton  27:33

So tell me the best first.

Dave Chancellor  27:36

So we we were in desperate need of a shop, we were pouring holds in my parents basement. We had a small rental house in Carbondale. And we are in desperate need of some square footage, so we could, you know, spread our wings, if you will. So the challenge was in Southern Illinois, where do you find something that's, that that works for us. So we found the perfect place. It was, you know, three bedroom house. It was out in the country. it had, it had a big pole barn that was perfect for us as a secondary garage, that we built a climbing wall in, and we opened up to the community to come out. And on paper, it was next door to a strip club. So as a young male, it was this way around the country is this is the most incredible opportunity for any young man, this is this is pure gold. After the first day of moving in

Kris Hampton  28:27

Are you going to suggest to Milo that he moves across the street from a strip club?

Dave Chancellor  28:31

He'll never see this.

Kris Hampton  28:32

Okay. 

Dave Chancellor  28:33

After moving in, and of course, our first night, we're excited. Let's go over we got to see it out. We're in Southern Illinois, in the country. I mean, that's literally all I need to say. It was a train wreck.

Kris Hampton  28:46

Yeah yeah for sure.

Dave Chancellor  28:46

 It was literally one and done. But the traveling climbers that came through our place, we opened up our doors to them, they, they were able to, you know, to climb on the climbing wall, they will see kind of the process, we're able to, you know, venture out and develop new areas and establish, you know, new climbs and such, those are memories I will never forget. I remember one time there were so many visitors there that I would just literally lose track. Like we would wake up in the morning and there would just be a van parked in our driveway. 

Kris Hampton  29:18

That was Nate.

Dave Chancellor  29:18

 And we'd venture out and be like, Hey, who are you? Oh, we heard this as a climber friendly place. And one day it hit me, in Arkansas, several years later, and a gentleman came up said Dave, I haven't seen in a long time. And he said, I hate this line, you don't remember me, do you? It's the worst.

Kris Hampton  29:38

How do you answer that?

Dave Chancellor  29:39

I said, I'm sorry. I don't he said Oh, well. I stayed on your couch for two weeks. And I completely forgot who this guy was. And I felt so bad but it is what it is. There were hundreds of visitors that came through over several years. But it was a good time. And yeah, those sort of experiences like just added more fuel to the fire.

Kris Hampton  30:00

Yeah, totally. And so now that we're on bad experiences or maybe bad decisions, Yusuf, I know that you had, you had a little blow up with the the campground you were living in in the Red, right? And you ended up having to kind of vacate the premises.

Yusuf Daneshyar  30:20

Yeah. So I was staying with Linda for, for quite a while, and I was honest with her right off the bat, you know, I'm, I'm here for an extended period of time, you know, I don't have I'm not working, I don't really have the ability to pay. But I'd like to stay here. It's a nice place. So we'd worked out an arrangement where I would work for her in exchange for, you know, kind of a room and board.

Kris Hampton  30:47

Yep. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  30:48

And, I mean, that went on for four months. And then, as far as I was concerned, I had worked, you know, every day that that she asked me to, and I had to, you know, there was towards the end of the season, something came up, you know, my mom was sick. And I left, you know, pretty, pretty quickly, pretty abruptly. But yeah, I let everybody know, just to tell Linda that, you know, you know, my mom's sick. I got to go back home. 

Dave Chancellor  31:18

Yeah, sure. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  31:20

And I thought things were fine. And then I came back, you know, fortunately, like, everything turned out okay with mom. And that following season, I came back. And when I got back to Linda's everyone was like, Linda's been looking for you.

Kris Hampton  31:37

She's been searching on her golf cart for you all around the campground.

Yusuf Daneshyar  31:39

Yeah she's been looking for you for the last like six months. She's losing it. And I had no idea what was wrong. I just thought, you know, you know, Linda's touchy. So I just thought, you know, I'll go I'll go talk to her. So I went up to the house and, and she was like, I can't you know, she essentially thought that I had stiffed her on four months of rent. And I couldn't explain to her enough times, like, no, like, we worked it out. Like, that's exactly why like, yeah, you know, that's why I did all the laundry, cleaned all the cabins, took out the trash, replace all the light bulbs, cleaning the bathroom, like I had no pride, I would do any job did anything she wanted me to do, I'd do it.

Kris Hampton  32:22

And I think what happened as Linda got used to rock climbers who have no other responsibilities in their life, you know? So she's like, Where the hell is Yusuf? He doesn't have any responsibilities other than changing the light bulbs.

Yusuf Daneshyar  32:36

Yeah and I and I you know, after half an hour there, I just told her, I'd love to pay you back. But I just cannot be you know, like, I don't know, what do you want to work out? And she was, like, livid. Didn't want anything to do with me after that. Yeah, things calmed down after a while, though, like she, she still asked about like my mom, she like checks in and sees how she's doing. So

Kris Hampton  32:59

 Good good,  and we hope Linda is doing well out there as well. You know, I know Linda has had some rough times lately. So hopefully, she's doing well. But did that, you know, did that force you into thinking about what am I going to do with the rest of my life? When did that come about? When did it come about that you rejoined the normal society, so to speak.

Yusuf Daneshyar  33:24

 I remember it was like right around that time. So at that, so the first year on the road, I lived exclusively out of a tent. But then after that thing had been set up for the better part of a year, it was so you know, it just been so weathered that I couldn't stay in it anymore. So I started living in my car. And that seemed like an upgrade. So I had my whole life in this car. And it was that season that I finally had it out with Linda that my car also got broken into, down at the Lode lot. Yeah. So my car got broken into. And I remember walking, like I was walking down to the parking lot and saw two guys like standing around my car, like looking into it. And I walked up to him when I was like maybe about as close as we're sitting right now. And I just looked at the guy and asked him, did you just break into my car? And he looked at me and then ran and jumped in his like Chevy Cavalier and took off.

Kris Hampton  34:29

Oh no way! It was the dude.

Yusuf Daneshyar  34:30

 It was the dude. It was totally the dude.

Kris Hampton  34:32

 That's crazy. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  34:32

And in that moment, I just thought, Well, you know, fuck this guy. And I jumped in my car and took after him, you know, took off after him. And I don't know if you've ever been back on those roads, but it gets rough, so I have no idea how he made it through those back roads in the Chevy Cavalier.

Dave Chancellor  34:50

Oh man. He was a local.

Yusuf Daneshyar  34:52

 He was a local he knew all of it and at any rate, so like, obviously didn't catch the guy. Police didn't really care about it, they knew this guy was a problem. And I, you know, couldn't do anything about it. He stole like my phone, my wallet, didn't take any of my CDs, like went through them, but didn't take any of my CDs.

Dave Chancellor  35:14

Haha your NSYNC CDs?

Kris Hampton  35:15

Haha I don't know what that says about your music collection.

Yusuf Daneshyar  35:18

He left my Smash Mouth Greatest Hits CD in the backseat of the car. But so I was like living in my car and the when like windows were gone, like I had no option, right. And I was just like, I was just laying down in the back of my car, it was, it was raining, and I couldn't do anything about it. And that was when I thought like, I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this. I don't know if I should do this. And I don't know if I should be doing this anymore. But, you know, like Dave said, like climbing just just once it sets in, like you don't really get out of your system. And it was like, really hard night of just thinking about like, what do I want to do with the rest of my life? And am I making the right call. But then you'd wake up in the morning,

Kris Hampton  36:07

 And you just want to go back to your project? 

Yusuf Daneshyar  36:08

And you just want tp go climbing. Yeah, you've got stuff to do, you know, you've got routes to do at the cliff. So you'll figure out those broken windows later. You know, and you and you and again, you're surrounded with great people. Like Allie Rainey and Kevin Wilkinson took me in, it was awesome. Like they had a camper at Linda's. They let me stay with them. Kevin helped me fix the window, which was awesome. You know, so it was like, I had this moment of doubt, like, Am I doing the right thing. And then the very next day, you know, your friends, you know, do everything they can to keep you on course. So it wasn't you know that, that that that was? That was a rough time because I really didn't know if I was making the right call. But ultimately, you know, I kind of I limped along for another few months before I got a call from Dave. And that's when that that that was the moment when I thought, you know,

Kris Hampton  37:05

Here's my chance.

Yusuf Daneshyar  37:06

This is an opportunity. Yeah. And I'm not, you know, at that point, I was ready for it. You know,

Kris Hampton  37:12

Yeah, I think it's interesting that you, you say your friends, you know, kept you on the right path, and they were keeping you on the path that most of society is like, that's not the direction you should be going. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  37:25

Right.

Kris Hampton  37:25

 You know, and I went the other direction for a long time I, I worked a nine to five job or, you know, and just worked my ass off my whole life. And just believing that there's no way you can make a living in this climbing industry. You know, it's just, it's a hobby, and it's a lifestyle, but you still need to work this full time job. And it's only recently that I've switched over to the dark side, so to speak. You know, and I've, and I'm realizing that that's the right decision now, because I'm following this passion, you know, that I've had for so long. And you guys follow that passion a lot earlier. But that's not the way everybody on the outside sees it necessarily. You know, do you do you three feel successful? Like, do you feel like you're finding success in this climbing world?

Nate Drolet  38:22

Every day.

Yusuf Daneshyar  38:27

Yeah, Dave and I were just talking about this. You know, it's, it's different for different people. Right. Like the, you know, the definition of success is not it's not objective, right. Like, it's not totally, there's not one definition of success. I mean, I think a lot of people when they look at climbing, when it's not their, what is not their career, or when it's not what they do for a living, you know, they look at success as like, you know, clipping the chains, getting to the top, you know, and like checking the box next to the biggest number possible right? 

Kris Hampton  39:04

Right, exactly. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  39:05

But for us, I feel like we're at this point where we've just our success is in finding balance. Right, like, we have so many other things that are going on right now. And they're all great things. And that's been, you know, that's, for me has been my definition of success. It's finding a balance. You know, climbing has been a vehicle that allowed me to get here, but now that I'm here, I have, you know, a partner who we're getting ready to get married here in three weeks. So that's coming up. We are kind of excited about that.

Kris Hampton  39:42

 Yep. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  39:44

And, you know, things at the climbing gym are going well. Like Dave said, St. Louis is a great community. We have amazing people here. Having moved back to St. Louis, like I really reconnected with my family, like, you know, there's all these things that are happening that you know, you even though they are not climbing related, like climbing made them possible to a certain degree.

Kris Hampton  40:05

Yeah, absolutely. And you're, you know, I'm sure your wedding is gonna be populated with lots of climbers, I'm sure they'll be there. You know, I know you had a local climber help with your wedding invitations and a climber is playing at your wedding in the band. And, you know, so that community has played a huge part even in those non climbing decisions, right? I think that's huge.

Dave Chancellor  40:29

Success is like really hard to measure, right? For one guy, it's the fancy sports car. It's the perfect job. It's the financial like, money to be free.

Kris Hampton  40:38

It's the motorcycle with all the little gadgets.

Dave Chancellor  40:40

Haha beep beeep! 

Kris Hampton  40:42

Haha

Dave Chancellor  40:42

You know it, I guess, so I've had to shift gears between like the climbing lifestyle and like, cool, how do you play some business? Like at least the Monopoly board moving the pieces around? How do you figure out this other game?  And it seems like if you shift the focus of success off of me, like I'm trying to be successful, I'm trying to get to this milestone I want to I want to, and you try to make the people around you successful, so you encourage them or you put the responsibility on them to try to improve, then that pays dividends like in gold. We've, so when we first started, it was just myself and my brother, and we were struggling to like figure it all out. And slowly the team has grown over years of like hard work and risk and loss and struggle. It's grown and grown and grown. And I've changed the focus now to asking the team, how can I make your job easier? What can I do to make you successful, and by stopping and listening and getting that feedback, and then trying to like execute that. By by making the team successful, it it just pays off in dividends. It's incredible. So I think it's like, you know, culture and society wants to push you towards being successful. I mean, you see it every day. We're bombarded with images, the fancy car, the sports car, the the the cash in the bank, the you know, but I I think you get where I'm going with this. Sometimes when I panic, and I get nervous, I just fake blacking out. Blackhawk down. Haha this might be one of those times. No, but I think the point that the point is, you know, another key to success is surrounding yourself with the right people.

Kris Hampton  42:27

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think it's, I think it's interesting that you, you talk so often about community, and I love that because you're an entertainer, naturally, you know, it's, it's what you do. So, and I and I get this, you know, where I'm, I like to be on a microphone, I like to be in front of people, you know, I like to be the the center stage or whatever, but I'm not doing it for my own attention. I'm doing it to entertain other people, and to help them have a good time. And I see the same thing with you. So it's interesting to hear you verbalize that, that you're trying to, you know, make it easier for the team and facilitate for the team and keep every you you spend so much time in here. I've watched you all week, entertaining, your your team members, you know, all the people who work here are entertained by you, the minute you walk in the door, you know, and I'm sure there are moments where you're a total asshole, I'm sure it happens. You know, we all are. But they understand that because you've you you've paid so much attention to making them happy and making their job work for them and making them feel successful.

Dave Chancellor  43:41

Cool, I hope it's a snowball effect and they'll turn around and do that, you know, to the next coworker, member, daypass user and so on.

Kris Hampton  43:50

Yeah, yeah. And I think they will I really do.

Dave Chancellor  43:53

I'm finding like, we've talked about this usage, but and you've actually encouraged me to you know what success is like, people see it as like, Oh, it's just a straight line to success but it is a curvy road with and I mentioned with risk

Kris Hampton  44:08

Totally, with strip clubs.

Dave Chancellor  44:11

Potholes, and you know, it's, it's, it's challenging, it's not as easy as you think. But users really encouraged me to celebrate the small successes like take time to celebrate whether it's topping out a boulder problem. There's there's always another boulder problem. So take a minute to slow down slow your roll. And just relish in the fact that you've accomplished something.

Kris Hampton  44:34

Yeah, it doesn't even have to be topping out a boulder problem. If you just stick a move you haven't done or get closer to a move you haven't done you know, right to success to celebrate too. So

Dave Chancellor  44:43

It could be climbing. It could be work related. It could be family related, but just take time to pause and and celebrate those little victories because I it's just with the fast paced world. It's hard to take a minute for yourself.

Kris Hampton  44:57

Yeah, I think so. For sure. Nate, do you feel like, you know, you're you're finding your, your way in this climbing industry. Has it changed for you since you were just dirt bagging? 

Nate Drolet  45:08

Oh, it's changed a ton. Yeah, it's and that's what's funny is trying to think on this. I don't actually know how I define success right now entirely. Yeah, when you know, I lived on the road, I always just work shitty jobs like, and always with the intention of, hey, this keeps me doing what I want to do. But I definitely hit a point to where I was like, man, I, you know, I love rock climbing. But I want to do more than just work a garbage job that just keeps me climbing. Like, I want to do something that kind of feels significant, or at least like, I want to feel like I'm giving back in a way, like contributing. And yeah, it's funny actually stayed away, like, the idea of coaching terrified me forever. So I was always really afraid of the idea that it would make me like not like climbing. But with all my free time, all I would ever read about is things like coaching, things like training things along those lines, like that's all I ever, that's what I cared about more than anything, but it was just like, I kind of stayed away from it. And then things just kind of lined up to where we started working together. And so now it's been a lot more of a balanced trying to like figure out my own climbing and then coaching as well. And kind of a funny thing that happened the other night. I competed in the So iLL Showdown here, which was an awesome event. But man, I got stomped, like, absolutely. I haven't climbed inside very much like, more or less for the last year, and came in and man indoor bouldering is hard. And like very hard. Yeah. Like afterwards, I was like, pretty bummed. I knew I didn't make finals. I was just like, well, this kind of sucks. And like, I don't know, I knew not to go in with like too high of expectations, and supposed to be just a fun event. But it's like, you know, if you try hard and you fail, it's like, shit sucks. But then I pulled out my phone. And I looked and one of the women I train just sent her entire season project. Like, this was a huge thing for her. It was her biggest project and she sent it first go that day. And immediately I would like didn't even care about the comp I like, was so happy. Like, to me, that was like success. And that moment, I was just like, this means more than had I made it to finals had absolutely crushed it, this still would have been the highlight of my day.

Kris Hampton  47:16

Yeah, yeah. And I think I find that all the time. You know, I've initially when I started, you know, the change The Power Company into a money making business, I thought, you know, this is what's gonna make me successful, the fact that I'm making money, and I'm still climbing hard, and it's all within the climbing industry, you know, but I discovered that hearing from my clients about their successes, and hearing from this community that we've been building around, you know, this training and practice culture, hearing their successes has been gigantic for me, you know, and I think that's definitely the way that I define success now is by, you know, what, what is everyone around me learning from me. And then what are they passing on. You know, when I see them share something, either with a either we're working with coaches, and they share something with one of their team kids or, or if someone shares something on Facebook, or whatever it is, that they've learned from us, and then they can pass on, you know, that feels a lot more successful to me, and, you know, maybe mentorship or stewardship or something. I don't know exactly how to define it, but, but that's what, that's what I'm calling success now, you know.

Dave Chancellor  48:41

Do you boys feel like you've learned more from you know, the pupils or the students that you've trained versus what you've given them? Like, do you feel like you've like it's a reciprocal relationship?

Kris Hampton  48:51

That's a funny question. I, I actually do, I feel like, since I've been coaching more and spending more time building this business, I've had less time to learn new things, from books or podcasts or, you know, whatever. But I get so much new, I get so many new ideas and so much new inspiration from my clients and from the people that we work with. And we talk to every day and at these workshops, and through the podcast and you know, through all these channels that we've created, so I feel like I'm I'm constantly learning, and I'm just giving everyone the same information I already have, you know, that's kind of how it starts to feel sometimes. So yeah, I think I feel like I'm coming out on the the winning side of it. For sure.

Dave Chancellor  49:42

Nate, how about you, buddy? 

Nate Drolet  49:44

Oh, yeah, man. I think man, especially a big thing for me is I'm so impressed by so many of the people that I train like, they have like real lives and real like just things that go on all the time, like the idea of someone working in nine to five throughout the year. No mishaps and it's just like they go to a climbing trip. And, you know, everything goes smooth. Like that's, that's crazy, like, but so often, like people are like, oh, like, you know, I had gotten a car accident, or I had a family member die or something like that and like, but they still, like they make time for things. And it's really cool to see them balance all these things out. And it's been huge for me, it's helped me a ton just be like, like, put things in perspective a lot. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  50:27

So, you know, I think we all feel like we've had some some version of success in this, you know, climbing world climbing industry, climbing life, whatever it is, you know, what's your, What's your goal from here? Where are you taking your success from here in this same world, Dave?

Dave Chancellor  50:47

This is one of those blackout moments. I just....fake it.

Yusuf Daneshyar  50:54

I got your back. So we were talking about this the other day. And I think because I think just as we get older that the answer that question is just going to keep changing. Yeah, I don't. I don't think for people with our personalities, we're ever going to get to a place where we feel like we've arrived. I mean, that's part of the reason why we're here right now, right. But I know that we've talked about this, at some point, it'll be nice to get back to climbing. You know, I think I'm climbing if we can, yeah, I think you know, we just decided, you know, instead of spending our 20s and 30s, living on the road climbing, it was time to buckle down, create something that would provide some stability and financial security, and then come back to it later.

Kris Hampton  51:47

Yeah. And it's hard right, because you want to once you've created something successful, you want to create another thing that's successful or keep growing the thing you've already created, or yeah, you know, it's just like when you have a climbing project, you get you think this is the end all project, you know, but you get to the top and you're like, Okay, what's next? Yeah, you're thinking about something bigger?

Dave Chancellor  52:08

Yeah. It's a vicious cycle. Right? Like, yeah, you create something you put meaning into it time, effort, energy, and you throw it out there, and you just hope that people gravitate to it. Yeah. So it's just like, what's the next thing, and as you're progressing forward, you need to take time to nurture the things that you've already created to make sure systems are in place. They're up and running. You're satisfying the needs of people who are partaking. So it's this constant, like struggle between work, and then live work balance. Like it's a it's a never ending chase, if you will.

Kris Hampton  52:44

Yep, yep, absolutely. I think, you know, I get, I get blamed all the time by my fiancee for just going too hard all the time. You know, and I, and all the time, I'm like, I'll just get this one thing done. And then I'll take a break, you know, and then a week later, I'm like, I never took a break. I'll take a break tomorrow. And then a week later, and I never took a break, you know, and it just seems to be how it goes. You just want to keep growing these things.

Dave Chancellor  53:11

I have to congratulate you though. You have done a fantastic job. It seems like your your brand, your marketing, everything is just it's you are you're riding this wave and I just love to see I love to see the scrappy startup to just I'm all in I'm throwing all my chips in

Kris Hampton  53:28

Man, Im just learning from you guys. I watched you guys come up. So that's

Dave Chancellor  53:32

We we do these CEO, like entrepreneurship classes, where I don't know why they invite us out to these, but we'll show up to these high schools and the teachers will interview us and the kids will question and answer and stuff. And you know, I remember saying like, so who wants to be an entrepreneur and why and the first hand that shoots up is so how long do I will take before I make a million dollars. Like that was the first question out of the 16 year old. It was just like verbal vomit on the ground. And it was like it my comment was is like if that is your motivation, like you should just go work for someone else. Like that's what you're chasing. You may never get there. But if you enjoy the process and the people and creating something, then

Kris Hampton  54:16

And if you can live in a van in the Miguel's parking lot, you don't need a million dollars.

Dave Chancellor  54:22

I love it.

Kris Hampton  54:25

Any of you guys have any questions you want to ask Dave or Yusuf or Nate or I? Okay.

Dave Chancellor  54:38

Are you, are you nervous?

Kris Hampton  54:40

You want to talk on the microphone?

Kris Hampton  55:03

So what you're asking is, do we ever believe this success is gonna happen one way and then we we start down that path and then we immediately flip flop? You know, the next day we wake up and we're like, oh god, that was a huge mistake.

Dave Chancellor  55:20

I can comment on that. For sure. Like you put all this time, energy and effort into something like you give your entire soul to a project and it takes hours and you're up late at night. You're up early in the morning to execute this thing. And you put it out there. And the first comment on social media is like, oh, the font was just horrible on a poster you put out? 

Kris Hampton  55:43

Yeah, yeah,

Dave Chancellor  55:43

It's like, it's such a brutal world like it is, I've really learned to just put my head down and work as hard as I can towards a goal. And just ignore the comments like you just do the best you can. And I, you know, if you're listening out there, I would just encourage you to think through even the little comments, and really just provide in that sort of environment of encouragement versus just this brutal beat you up over nothing, you know? I don't know. So yes, it goes both ways.

Yusuf Daneshyar  56:17

Yeah. And I think, as I've gotten older, I've learned how to pivot better. So you know, the thing about any kind of success, whether that's like, finishing a project, or starting a business, or, you know, you know, anything, when you have, when you have a few things in play, I think it's, it makes it a little easier to fail. Like, if you're gonna succeed at anything, you have to be open to failure, and you'd have to deal with failure in a positive way. And if you kind of keep a couple plates spinning, you know, when one of those falls, you can move on and keep the other spinning and come back to that other one. So, you know, that's something that I learned, you know, when climbing was my only thing when it wasn't going right, you know, it was devastating, you know, because you're living out of your car, racking up credit card debt, just to get to the top of this route. And if it doesn't happen, it feels awful. But now being a little older, and having a few more things going on, even if I'm suffering on my project, I can pivot and I can, you know, at a certain point, I was working on the guidebook, or I can pivot and switch gears and start working on like, the next big event at the climbing gym, or I can pivot again, and, you know, spend time with my family, you know, so you might not always be successful in every area of your life, but it's likely that maybe you're 75% of the way there, right? How much time

Dave Chancellor  57:57

How much have you learned from just failing, like

Kris Hampton  58:01

All the things. 

Dave Chancellor  58:02

All the things right.

Yusuf Daneshyar  58:03

So much about yourself, like how you fail, is a really strong way to define yourself. Because if if, if you walk away from things at the first sign of failure, you're not going to make it.

Kris Hampton  58:18

 You're not gonna get very far. And I think it's important, you know, as failure to put yourself out there, you know, for, for me, and I know, you know, I can speak for Nate on this, because Nate, you know, will show me a blog post that he's written and I'm like, Oh, yeah, it's perfect, post it. And two weeks later, he's still working on it, you know, because it's so scary to put something that you've built out there into the world for criticism, you know, and I've gotten good at it over years of music and art, and all these other completely subjective things that I put out into the world. And I'm just, like, go for it, criticize it, you know, do whatever you want with it. But this is what I believe and this is what I'm putting out there. And, you know, I saw you guys with So iLL early on, doing the same thing. You know, bucking the trend and not following the same path that everyone else had taken. And, you know, advertising the way you wanted to advertise and, you know, selling your products the way you wanted to sell them and making products that were different from everyone else. And it takes, you know, balls to put that put that stuff out there into the world. And I think that's just as important as failure is challenging yourself. To put those things out there and you're always going to be scared that you just did the wrong thing. You know, it's always gonna be like that. You just have to trust your trust your gut,

Dave Chancellor  59:51

Right? lead with your heart, like be disruptive.

Kris Hampton  59:54

Yeah, totally.

Yusuf Daneshyar  59:57

Yeah, yeah. And if you want it bad enough, yeah. If you want something bad enough, you just have to take it. 

Kris Hampton  1:00:02

Exactly. Exactly.

Yusuf Daneshyar  1:00:04

 No, you can't just sit around and expect it to happen.

Kris Hampton  1:00:07

Yep. Anybody else have any other questions?

Dave Chancellor  1:00:12

They might let us off the hook now.

Kris Hampton  1:00:15

Okay, well, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  1:00:24

So so we're asking as a fellow Southern, did you say "Illinoisian"? Is that really how you say it? I have no idea. I'm just curious. But

Dave Chancellor  1:00:37

I mean, they were both train wrecks.

Kris Hampton  1:00:39

Which is better, JB's or The Gallery?

Dave Chancellor  1:00:40

They were out in the country, in the sticks. Like they're both train wrecks. It's not like a big city life. The poor girls are just probably trying to pay for the college tuition. No, no Rollo, what

Kris Hampton  1:00:54

David's saying is don't go to JB's or The Gallery either unless, unless you have to.

Dave Chancellor  1:00:59

It's horrible for your soul. Like it's not a place you want to spend time and it's a downward trajectory. You know, that the young, the young man thinks that this is, you know, maybe a fruitful ending. But the older you get, it's not worth the time. But I have to say Illinois, one of the best kept secrets of any climbing areas I've ever been to. I I traveled for a couple years and then had the opportunity to literally move anywhere I wanted and move to Southern Illinois. The sandstone down there is is crazy. The Shawnee National Forest occupies basically the bottom third of Illinois. And that place literally changed my life. I remember the day I left Illinois to pack. I packed up my entire house sold all the possessions we could and we moved to St. Louis and I remember looking at my rearview mirror thinking, what have I done? 

Yusuf Daneshyar  1:01:48

Yeah, I tried it. I try to tell people that too, and they just don't believe you, you know, think you're crazy. They think you know, how could there be good climbing in Southern Illinois? I've even sent like really close friends of mine copies of the guide book to convince them that it's, we've got a good thing here.

Dave Chancellor  1:02:05

How'd that go? 

Kris Hampton  1:02:06

The herds aren't there man.

Yusuf Daneshyar  1:02:07

Radio silence. They went to Spain instead.

Dave Chancellor  1:02:09

 Yeah, you should follow up with an invoice if they ever replied.

Kris Hampton  1:02:15

That's a great idea. Well, man, I appreciate you guys.

Dave Chancellor  1:02:18

Hold on hold on anymore. All right.

Kris Hampton  1:02:21

Oh, we got another one.

Kris Hampton  1:02:42

Yeah, that's a that's a good question. How do we, you know, start these businesses from the ground up? Do we approach venture capitalists? Or how do we fund them? That's a good question.

Dave Chancellor  1:02:51

I wish we, so we were young, we did all these little entrepreneur contests. So we I remember, there was there was one that really stood out in my mind. And we presented a big slideshow and presentation and we showed all of our product and two things came from that one. As soon as we're done with a 30 minute presentation, the gentleman looked at the climbing hold and said, so what is this? And I felt like we had disconnected our message to our audience. The second thing was, everyone was dressed in suits, but there was one gentleman who was in literally flip flops and shorts, and I guess he was the big IT guy and sold his concept to Microsoft. And he said, If I give you $100,000 right now, what would you do with it? And my smart alec remark was I buy $100,000 car. I think after we left that meeting, we had a lot of discussions between my brother and myself. And the biggest thing I can say is be thrifty and be nimble. Like I if he would have given me $100,000 loan like I would have just trashed that as fast as I could on just nonsense. So I think we started really small grassroots and we slow, slow growth, not taking on too big of a financial burden. And really pacing yourself put in as much sweat equity as you can. Instead of you know, hiring out maybe try to cultivate the correct team, bring them in. So you've got you know, people who may be played to your, your weaknesses, you said is a great example. He's a wordsmith, I can't I can't type a complete sentence. But this guy can can cultivate a message that so I that would be my my encouragement would be to start small, be humbled, grow slow, and build the right team around the product and most the time that yields to success. Yeah, and

Kris Hampton  1:03:48

I agree with everything Dave said. And I'll also add that I think you really have to try and build a culture around whatever it is that you're building and trying to sell. You know, I think it's really important to get people involved in wanting whatever it is you have, you know, if you really believe in it, and you have enough belief in it, that you're going to reach out to venture capitalists or whatever, then then sell that to people as well, you know, and those people, when they follow along, and they'll demand it, so that they're, you know, it can't be denied at that point, you know, when the people want it, think that's when it's going to happen, you know, and I saw that happen was So iLL and that's, you know, sort of what I modeled my brand after was, you know, they, they built this brand that got a cult following, and that, you know, everyone who was a So iLL fan, or So iLL follower, or, you know, whatever you call them, they, they loved it, and they, you know, they bled for So iLL. So I really tried to follow that same sort of model and really connect with the people who are going to be using my product and you know, being involved in my brand. And I think it's easy to forget about the the people that you're selling to and making sure that they're taken care of,

Dave Chancellor  1:06:05

I just want to encourage you to just go for it, like go all in. Eat, sleep. Like, throw all the chips in in the basket, if that's the direction you want to head.

Kris Hampton  1:06:17

Yeah,

Yusuf Daneshyar  1:06:18

one thing that I, I learned from Dave, that I think is really important, when you interact with people, treat everybody with respect. Give everybody absolutely time in a conversation, because you never know who you're talking to, at any given moment. You know, it could be someone just in the same position you're in, that could also be that business developer who's looking for the next big thing, or it could be an angel investor who's figuring out where he or she wants to put their funds. So you know, make sure that, you know, that might sound like it's a lot of pressure, that every conversation needs to be perfect, it doesn't need to be perfect, you just have to make sure that, you know, you treat everyone with respect, because they might come back to you.

Dave Chancellor  1:07:03

I've got audio in my head that says just shut up and listen, like you can learn so much from people, the you know, the young kid that's just coming out of college helps you connect with that younger demographic, and the old CEO that's been at it 50 years, like, just be still and listen. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  1:07:22

Totally. 

Kris Hampton  1:07:23

Yep. 

Dave Chancellor  1:07:23

Let's talk more after this. I'm now you've got my attention. I'm curious.

Kris Hampton  1:07:26

Yeah, totally curious. Now. And one last thing I'll say, you know, that Dave mentioned earlier, you know, Dave mentioned that he would be up early in the morning, and he'd be up until late at night and working constantly and, you know, late at night was at the strip club normally, but 

Yusuf Daneshyar  1:07:43

You gotta take breaks,

Kris Hampton  1:07:45

The importance of that is that, you know, you hear guys like, you know, if you look at Tim Ferriss, you know, in his podcast, and he wants to push this four hour workweek, and whatever, that's, that's something that happens way down the road, you know, but we see that example. And we think that's what I want right now. You know, but he got there, because he spends so many hours working on his brand and working on what it is that he's selling to everyone else, and that he's good at, you know, so you have to put in the hours you have to put in the work, you know, it's it's too big of just a chance, and it'll build the

Yusuf Daneshyar  1:08:22

I was gonna say, if you build the right team, like Dave was saying, you can spread out the workload, you're not if you're the only one going at it. 

Kris Hampton  1:08:30

Yep. 

Yusuf Daneshyar  1:08:31

Burnout happens real fast. And if the project is important to you, and you don't want to leave it racked, you need to spread it out. You need to trust that other people are gonna help you. You need to be willing to like, give some of it up.

Kris Hampton  1:08:43

Yep, yep, absolutely. Anybody else have any questions? Yep. What's next for So iLL?

Dave Chancellor  1:08:52

Big Picture stuff. It's been it's been challenging lately to figure out to keep the systems in place to free us up to be able to work on bigger picture stuff. I feel like the climbing community in St. Louis is growing. I feel like the industry is growing too. We just got back from Tokyo, my wife and I got to go over there. My brother had a trip booked for So iLL to hang out with our distributor and participate in a trade show and he got sick. So on about an eight hour notice, I got the call that I was headed there, packed my bags, and off we went. But it's been cool to see outside perspective, like traveling really puts things in a sort of different light, if you will. So it's been it's it's cool to see this industry start. I mean, what felt like just a disorganized sort of climbers on the road to these sort of gym epicenters that are really introducing people to the sport. So I feel like headed towards the directory of introducing more people to rock climbing more products, more things that that people will like and absorb and maybe a little vacation time.

Kris Hampton  1:09:59

I'm all for you taking that vacation time.

Dave Chancellor  1:10:02

All right.

Kris Hampton  1:10:03

Any other questions? Anybody? Okay, well, first off, I appreciate you guys sitting down, you know, and talking to me and chatting with us. I think it's great. You know, we, we, we need to hear your stories. You know, you guys are the you're leading the charge but you're doing it from the background. So it's it's cool to hear the stories. And, you know, thanks to forehands for the beer for sure you always have to thank the beer people and all of you people on Facebook who are watching thank you guys for tuning in. We'll do this again. Sometime down the road. You can all find us at powercompanyclimbing.com at climbsoill.com.

Dave Chancellor  1:10:46

 Correct. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  1:10:47

And is it soill.com for the holds? 

Dave Chancellor  1:10:51

soillholds.com

Kris Hampton  1:10:51

soillholds.com, you can find them there. And definitely check out their products they they push the boundaries for sure. And, and I love the way they do it. So check those guys out. And you can find us on the social medias. You can find us on the Instagrams. You can find us on the Facebook's. You cannot however, find us on the Twitter because we don't tweet we scream like eagles.

Dave Chancellor  1:11:18

I gotta pee.

Kris Hampton  1:11:34

For you guys that are still here. We've got shirts set up over here. We've got stickers. We're gonna be hanging out for a little while we've got more beer, so please hang out chat with us if you want to. I could chat all night so please hang out.