Looking for a sport climbing destination where you can climb comfortably from mid-Spring through mid-Fall? Look no further than Wild Iris, with its high elevation, low humidity, and perfectly-pocketed limestone walls.

Wyoming local Leif Gasch has been climbing at Wild Iris for more than 25 years. While his life and travels have taken him all over, he and his wife Lindsay are happy to once again call Lander home.

You can learn more about Leif and his work as a coach at Substr8 Climbing Performance.

GRIP FOCUS: pockets, edges

STYLE FOCUS: powerful, bouldery, short

BEST CONDITIONS: late May – early October

WEATHER CONSIDERATIONS: Crags are at elevation – about 9,000 feet – so high winds and fast-moving thunderstorms are common. Many walls are south-facing and get direct sunlight. Pack all the layers – from shorts and sun-shirts to puffy coat and beanie!

SPECIAL EQUIPMENT: Healthy tendons. Stick clip. Pointed shoes.

SPECIAL SKILLS NEEDED AT CERTAIN GRADE LEVEL: Longer pulls between smaller pockets (often monos) at 5.12+ and up, with those same small pockets often serving as the only feet.

MUST DO’S:

• 5.10 and under:

  • The Devil Wears Spurs, 10d

  • Take Your Hat Off, 10b

  • Wotai, 10d

  • Claim Jumper, 10c

• 5.11:

  • Cowboy Poetry (extension), 11b

  • Medicine Man, 11c

  • Tribal War, 11b

  • Zorro, 11c

  • Winchester Pump, 11a

• 5.12:

  • Bobcat Logic, 12c

  • Hot Tamale Baby, 12a

  • Wind and Rattlesnakes, 12a

  • American Beauty, 12b

  • Burnt Beans and Coffee, 12c

• 5.13 and up:

  • Cow Reggae, 13b

  • Cowboy King, 13b

  • When I Was a Young Girl…, 13a

  • One-Eyed Fiona, 13a

  • Throwin’ the Houlihan, 14a

  • Atomic Cow, 13d

PERSONAL FAVORITES:

• Leif: Cowboy King, 13b

• Kris: Atomic Stetson, 13c

OVERLOOKED CLASSICS:

• Leif’s picks:

  • Ground From Upside Down, 13a/V6

  • Gored by Inosine, 12d

  • Easy Ridin’, 10d

  • Butch Pocket and the Sundance Pump, 12a

• Kris’s picks:

  • All Manner of Wonderment, 11d

BEST CRAG FOR A GROUP OF VARYING GRADE LEVELS: Left side of Main Wall – Rising From the Plains/Hot Tamale area

BEST REST DAY ACTIVITY:

• Natural waterslide at the falls in Sinks Canyon State Park.

• Fourth of July in Lander – parade, fireworks, rodeo, etc.

• Hot Springs State Park in Thermopolis.

• Relax and hang out in Lander City Park.

GUIDEBOOK: Lander Rock Climbs

GEARSHOP: Wild Iris Mountain Sports

CLIMBING GYM: Elemental Performance + Fitness

BEST PLACE TO STAY: Camp at Lander City Park.

BEST PLACE TO EAT: Mulino, Gannett Grill/Lander Bar

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:36

What's up everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton.

Leif Gasch  00:39

And I'm Leif Gasch.

Kris Hampton  00:41

I'm sitting here with Leif Gasch. It's amazing we haven't done a podcast before, because we live in the same damn town. We're both climbing coaches. And I don't know how we haven't done this previously.

Leif Gasch  00:55

Like we were saying, you're, you're busy, man. I'm a busy man.

Kris Hampton  00:59

Yeah, lots of, lots of plates in the air. Yeah. Tell us a little about you before we get started with this thing. Where can we find you on the internet and what you do?

Leif Gasch  01:09

Sure, you can find me, so I run Substr8 Climbing Performance. I'm a climbing coach, like Kris said, and you can find me at substr8climbing.com. I grew up in Cody, north of here and spent a lot of my youth in Lander climbing at the Iris and the other local crags. And I guess it was during the pandemic, Lindsay, my wife, and I moved back to Lander just sort of serendipitously, it was a happy accident. And we've been back here ever since. Built a house just up the road from you. And yeah, now we're here and really enjoying being back in Lander again.

Kris Hampton  01:47

Yeah. And somehow, you know, it's this weird small town thing that happens, I think I saw you more when you lived in Salt Lake.

Leif Gasch  01:54

Yeah. It's so funny, because we always drive by and I'm like, "Man, like I should really pop in and see Kris, like, he's right there." Daily, almost. But yeah. Anyway, here we are.

Kris Hampton  02:06

Yeah. And we're here to do a What When How to Train episode on Wild Iris. That's kind of the premier area around here for a lot of, for a lot of folks, especially for folks coming in from out of town. That's the thing that draws them.

Leif Gasch  02:23

I was just gonna say, for the plethora of climbing that we have here and all the very different styles, I feel like the Iris is the one that, yeah, draws people. They travel from destinations to come to the Wild Iris and it's unique.

Kris Hampton  02:38

Yeah, and you know, I first came here for the International Climbers Festival. That's where I met you and your wife, and actually recognized your dogs next time I saw you at the Red River Gorge. Yeah, I remember seeing you and Lindsay and the dogs walking through the Madness Cave and was like, "Oh, I met that crew this summer," you know. 

Leif Gasch  02:59

We're distinct. 

Kris Hampton  03:02

Yeah, to say the least. And, and I just kept coming back here because I loved the community here. And the festival was a lot of fun. And at the time, I feel like there was a bit of a lull in the like traveling to climb here at Wild Iris. It was first, first popularized in the 90s by Todd Skinner, whose sister had seen the cliffs at Wild iris and called him and said, "Hey, this looks just like southern France. You should come and check it out." Todd came, he looked at the cliffs, and then he never left. He just called his wife and was like, "We're moving here. You know, pack everything up, bring it over." And, and then in '97, Wild Iris became home to one of the first 14a's in the country to hold the grade, "Throwing the Houlihan" and was made famous by "Masters of Stone". I don't remember which one but... 

Leif Gasch  04:03

Number one.

Kris Hampton  04:03

Was it number one? Crazy. And, and, you know, it became really popular, hit a lull, and I think it's being revitalized again, you know, by the Climbers Festival getting bigger and bigger. And by the new harder modern routes.

Leif Gasch  04:20

I think just by proximity. You know, I mean, there's there's all the crags behind the Wild Iris. Little Popo Agie and, all these little satellite areas. And I think, yeah, just by proximity, you know, more people are being drawn to explore the area. But you have to drive right past the Iris. And I think there's a lot of people that have said, "Oh, I've never done that," or "I've never been to that wall." And I still feel like when we talk to people who ask for, if we have friends coming through town, and they say, you know, "What should I get on?" And I say "Well, have you been to you know, whatever, the remuda?" "Where's that?" "It's the backside of the Iris." "Oh, no, never been down there. I've only been to the front side." So despite I mean, it's not a you know, it's not huge crag, you know, but yeah, I mean there's some, I think people are, like you say, they're rediscovering this gem that's kind of always been hidden in plain sight.

Kris Hampton  05:14

Yeah, totally. And it's interesting you use that phrase "hidden in plain sight" because you can, you can go to the Iris a bunch of times, especially if you're here in the summer, you can walk in, you see the front side, you go there and climb, you might have no idea that there are these hidden crags down in the trees. That the Erratic is sitting down there, the Remuda's sitting down there, you could miss the entire OK Corral, actually, if you're only going to the front side.

Leif Gasch  05:42

You know, like full disclosure: it took me the better part of a decade of, like, 10 years worth of climbing at the Iris before I went to the Zorro wall. 

Kris Hampton  05:50

Wow.

Leif Gasch  05:51

You know, yeah, I mean, whatever. I'm a little ashamed to admit that. You know, it just goes to show you, I got so sucked into, you know, all this stuff that was right in front of me, and then it's like, oh, my gosh, I went to the Zorro wall for the first time and was like, "How have I never been here?"

Kris Hampton  06:06

Easy to do, I think. For the folks who are listening who might be planning a trip to the Wild Iris, let's talk a little about the area. The What of Wild Iris. So talk to me about what characterizes the climbing here. Like when you when you walk up to a crag, and you're about to get on the wall, what are you about to encounter?

Leif Gasch  06:31

Um, you know, the things that stand out? Um, you know, I think you know, I come from an art background like you and I've always thought Wild Iris is a very visceral crag. It's, I'm always, I'm still to this day blown away by the color. You know, the bleached bone-white dolomite. That is so unique. You know, I always joke like, "Bring your sunscreen."

Kris Hampton  06:57

That's not a joke. 

Leif Gasch  06:58

That is not a joke. Yeah. People forget that you're climbing on a white billboard. No, I mean, you know, the rock is very clean. That's the first thing that always strikes me is just how clean the features, some of the features are. You know, the the climbing is very powerful. There are a lot of pockets. And I mean... 

Kris Hampton  07:18

That what it's famous for.

Leif Gasch  07:19

That holds true, you know, and that's fine. I mean that, I think people know that coming here. I don't think that's a surprise. I think a lot of people don't give enough credit to how pockety the rock is. I've heard it akin to Buoux, some other areas, in yeah, like say, Southern France. But that's not to say there's not edges and larger holds, but it's, you know, the walls are very clean. There's not a lot of feature climbing, it's very much, you know, tech, I would consider it very technical face climbing really, for the most part. You know, routes are short, very oftentimes people say they're very powerful, and that, that certainly is the case. But there's, that's not always the case. I think there's, you know, not necessarily... It's not like it's just, you know, a pure power crag.

Kris Hampton  08:06

Yeah, and when you say short, that's real, like, that's not like, "Oh, they're not 250 feet. They're not, oftentimes, they're not even 50 feet.

Leif Gasch  08:16

No and short needs, you're, you're exactly right; Short needs to be qualified. I mean, I think...

Kris Hampton  08:22

Being a giant, yourself, short, short definitely needs to be qualified.

Leif Gasch  08:26

Short. I would say this: yeah, I mean, there's a lot... well, case in point: White Buffalo at the Okay Corral. That's been bouldered more than it's been rope climbed, you know? 50 feet is a tall route at the Iris. I think you can safely say there are certain sections of crag along the front side that are 30 feet and you're done. So yeah, short but yeah, beautiful. I love, I love how clean the rock is, you know, you just don't encounter choss or flakes or looseness. Yeah, it's very, it's just very clean and very pure.

Kris Hampton  09:02

I especially like the feeling of walking up to the Rising from the Plains wall – a great name for that wall, just pops out of nowhere. I know you have some history on that wall. And it is this like, bone-white little thing that just pops.

Leif Gasch  09:20

I mean, it looks like a femur head sticking out of the top of the mountain or something. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  09:24

It's incredible. Yeah, love it. It's tiny. But it's fierce.

Leif Gasch  09:28

Yeah, yeah. That's how I certainly, yeah, certainly tiny compared to a lot of the other stuff that I think a lot of people... I will say that I think people underestimate how short things are. And consequently, I don't know, maybe the grading plays into that a little bit? I'm not sure. I haven't given that a ton of thought. But I do think people say, "Oh, well, it's really short. It's gonna be maybe not that big of a deal." But there's a reason that they get the grades that they do and it, yeah, packs a little bit of a punch.

Kris Hampton  09:56

Yeah, totally. I also think that the Rodeo Wave is kind of seen as the archetype by a lot of people, at least these days. And I don't think it should be, because it's sort of an anomaly at the Iris.

Leif Gasch  10:11

It's a complete anomaly, it's a complete anomaly, and the Rodeo Wave is not to be missed. I mean, if you are climbing routes of that, those grades, yeah, you know, you, you owe it to yourself to at least sample it. But yeah, that, you know, the 45 degree panel is completely atypical of, you know, the style of the climbing. When I grew up, and I'd heard about the Iris before I'd even been here, it was fabled that it was a slab to a roof. You know, that's how it was described to me. And I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. But oftentimes...

Leif Gasch  10:22

But it's a better description than a 45 degree panel. 

Leif Gasch  10:47

Yeah, certainly of like, if you want to generalize the area. Yeah. You know, that's, that's pretty typical, you get a lot of vertical or off vertical walls. And many of them are capped with that, you know, I call it the 'beer belly bulge' at the top. Not all of them, but many. And I think that's far more typical, you know, vertical/off vertical, slightly overhanging face climbing.

Kris Hampton  11:08

Yeah. And it's interesting that like gyms back in the day used to always have this feature that was like vert to roof to vert again.

Leif Gasch  11:16

Like way back in the day. Yeah, way back.

Kris Hampton  11:18

Way back. They always had that feature. Yeah, you know, and now gyms almost never have that like box feature. It's always these big, sweeping panels. So it's interesting to me that the popularity of Wild Iris sort of followed the popularity of gyms, you know, or gyms followed the popularity of Wild Iris, where it was more like, oh, a bunch of vertical walls, lightly overhanging walls, big box feature, you had to climb out horizontal roofs, you know. And then as gyms got more like all 45's, Wild Iris sort of fell out of favor. So it's cool to see it coming back.

Leif Gasch  12:01

Yeah. And I was just gonna say when you mentioned that earlier, that's the first thing that came to mind is that this was a very, invogue crag in the 90s. And then it, I mean, it just, it felt like it dropped off the face of the earth. I mean, I remember, you know, in the late 90s, early 2000s, we'd go up there and you wouldn't see anybody, right? Ever. I mean, I don't, I don't, I'm not kidding when I say that. I mean, I remember one evening climbing up there after work. And we were blown away because we saw another car parked in the main parking. You know, and they were out of state plates. We were just like, "Who is this? Who's... are they lost?" You know, yeah. You'd never see anybody there. And now, you know, if you go up in the summertime, certainly during the you know, the warmest months and around the festival, I mean, you can't hardly find parking. It's just, it's crazy. So it is, it's fun to see people coming back and revisiting this stuff.

Kris Hampton  12:57

Yeah, and let's talk a little about the pockets. You mentioned that there are pockets. I once heard someone at the crag say, "Monos don't happen in nature."

Leif Gasch  13:10

I don't want to sound like the curmudgeony old man. Yeah, that's, that is such a thing. "That's not natural." I've heard that more times than I can count. "That's not natural."

Kris Hampton  13:19

Yeah. And while there certainly are drilled pockets up there, there's glue filling in things up there, you know, that was the ethic back then. If you, if you stand at the base of the wall and look around, you can probably find 150 monos on any section of cliff. You know, they're everywhere.

Leif Gasch  13:39

I mean, that's, I think it's rare for a lot of areas, you know, that have like, you know... I feel like a lot of places use the term 'pocket' to describe something and maybe it is a single gas pocket, but the reality is the way the Dolomite and a lot of the limestone in this area was formed was predominantly gas pockets. Yeah. And you know, I remember when I bolted "Rising from the Plains" and "Cowboy Killer" on that feature, I couldn't believe the two fingers that I was finding, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. I mean, these were made, these were sculpted. Now, they always almost, new pockets almost always had that sharp lip on the front. I mean razor blade, so absolutely, you need to take a file to that and clean that up. Otherwise you're gonna you know, seriously cut somebody.

Kris Hampton  14:27

Yeah, and that's pretty standard on limestone, mostly everywhere.

Kris Hampton  14:32

Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking when you made that, that motion.

Leif Gasch  14:32

Call it cleaning. That's all it is, you know. A clean route is a better route. That's, I'll stand behind that all day long. But yeah, monos exist. Natural monos, natural two fingers, some of the wild you know, kind of like sculpted things you can really like dig your fingers into you know, I think on the Rodeo Wave is a great example: that undercling on Stetson. 

Leif Gasch  14:55

Right? You're like, and you're like, oh, that's, that's how does that even work? But it's like and it fits perfectly and you're like, No way. But you can't create that with a drill bit. So yeah. No, I mean, yeah, pockets: come here knowing there's going to be pockets. And they are natural. And there might be, yeah, the handful that are helped out or enhanced or modified. But by and large, the vast majority, I mean, I would say 95% of what you're grabbing is natural.

Kris Hampton  15:23

Yeah. And it's also characterized by, you know, we've talked about these, like, shields of white rock with these pockets and A) onsighting is hard here. You know, partly because the rock is white. It's hard to, you can't just follow the white spots everywhere.

Leif Gasch  15:41

Heaven forbid you try and climb in the sun. Yeah. Like, Oh, no.

Kris Hampton  15:46

And it's these, like, spread out individual pockets. So there's, you feel like you're climbing on a spray wall, tracking style. Like there's not a bunch of extra feet everywhere.

Leif Gasch  15:58

No. And I think that's what, I think that you just hit the nail on the head. I think that's the one, I guess, characteristic that I hear a lot of kickback from people about the Iris is like, oh, man, it's so powerful. But I mean, a lot of times routes are purely tracking. I mean, just the clean nature of the rock doesn't lend itself to a lot of extraneous features. And I mean, that's not to say that they're not there. You know, I mean, there's certainly always, I mean, how bad do you want to use a foot over there? Like, you can probably find something, but it's going to be, you know, sometimes it's really, really small. 

Kris Hampton  16:31

Yeah, and for the, for the newer climber listening, tracking is simply you're putting your feet on the same things you put your hands on, there aren't a bunch of extra footholds everywhere that you can use to position yourself.

Leif Gasch  16:44

Yeah, which I was just gonna say, forces positions that are potentially uncomfortable or unnatural, in some ways. 

Kris Hampton  16:52

Super interesting climbing, you know. Feels bouldery, you end up having to do a lot of big pulls between pockets, you don't get the chance to like match or pair up on a hold near your hands.

Leif Gasch  17:09

Yeah, not often.

Kris Hampton  17:10

That, like at the Red River Gorge, you almost always have the option to pair up near your hand.

Leif Gasch  17:14

Yeah, I can't think of two drastically different styles of climbing.

Kris Hampton  17:18

And that's one of the things that really struck me when I first came here, as a Red River climber. And as an endurance climber, I was used to being able to, if I made a big move, that meant Oh, I get to move my lower hand up right next to my higher hand somehow, you know. They might not be matched on the same hold, but I was gonna pair up somehow. And here, it's like you do a big move, you might be doing another big move right after that, where your hand has to travel six feet, eight feet, you know.

Leif Gasch  17:51

I can think of routes where you are doing literally isolated moves like that for eight or nine moves. And tracking the entire time, which feels... I don't even know how I would describe that. Like, yeah, it feels like you're like, if you were to crawl on the ground, you know, on all fours. Like how far can you reach? Right, you know, almost having like a, I don't know, doing some sort of weird movement drill, but you're doing it on, you know, pockets on a vertical wall.

Kris Hampton  18:17

Yeah, that's a good description. It's like this weird game of Twister. Where you have to reach all the way across the board. 

Leif Gasch  18:24

Right, yeah. Yeah, it's yeah. Can be, not always but, yeah, certainly. Yeah. If you come here expecting the features of other areas, that's not always going to be the case.

Kris Hampton  18:35

Yeah, and because of that, like I said, onsighting is really hard. If you get a sequence wrong when you're trying to read it, there might be no way to reset. You might have to entirely back out, you know, five moves down, before you can reset, or you just drop off and accept defeat.

Leif Gasch  18:56

Yeah, I think that happens to, that happens to me on routes that I've done. Yeah, you know, I go, Oh, I haven't been on this in a while. And I climb on and I'm like, Oh, and here I am in no man's land. Okay. Right. Yeah, this is yeah, this is unachievable at this point.

Kris Hampton  19:13

Yeah, I very distinctly remember, I can't remember what the name of the route was but it was a 12c, I believe, on the front side. I was feeling great. Got to this two finger pocket with my left hand, realized "Oh shit." Next hold is a two-finger, five feet to my right–five feet to my left. Yeah, I've got my left hand in this pocket. There are no other holds. And this is not a rose move. And I have, I have no way unless I want to like mono-match this two-finger which was not happening for me. And I sat there with my hand in that two finger for probably three or four minutes before I just said, "Fuck it." Nothing I could do.

Leif Gasch  19:56

Right. You're like, the like, the smoke is coming out of your ears, like you're like doing all the equations, like how can I salvage this?

Kris Hampton  20:02

So much time looking for other holds that didn't exist. Yeah, that's, that's onsighting at Wild Iris.

Leif Gasch  20:09

Common tale. Common tale. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  20:13

If you're planning a trip here, what sort of things do you need? Is there anything special that you need for Wild Iris?

Leif Gasch  20:22

Um, special... that you would need...

Kris Hampton  20:26

I would say, I think this should be common, common for everybody going sport climbing now, I think you're you're maybe not the brightest person if you aren't carrying one fairly regularly, but a stick clip is super useful here. Number one, because the landings are rocky, lots of like jagged dolomite laying on the ground. It's not a sandy landing like at Military Wall in the Red. So if you, if you blow it before you get to the first bolt, you definitely risk twisting an ankle, if not worse. So bring a stick clip for that sake. Number two, I think that, you know, the moves right off the ground can be quite hard. At the Iris, everything's compacted into 30 foot routes so it's more likely you're going to fall. And number three. If you're trying hard things, you're probably going to get stuck somewhere. So yeah, being able to clip through is nice.

Leif Gasch  21:25

You know, I use my stick clip as a walking stick. I have a cane tip on the bottom of it. It's good for snakes, you know, just living in the area. So I just carry a stick clip with me wherever I go. I've seen too many broken ankles.  In my mind, I'm like, whatever. If you want to prove how bold you are, go trad climbing. This is sport climbing. Yeah, there's no, there's no place for that. So I consider a stick clip a just, a standard piece of equipment. But yes, absolutely. I can think of many routes that look deceptively easy right off the ground. And in that really dangerous zone, the like, the 10 feet, eight feet up. You're already into some real business that is very committing where like, yeah, if you don't, if you don't stick that move, you're coming all the way back down. On exactly not great landings, even if there aren't boulders or big pieces of rock underneath you, you know, rarely is it flat. It's almost always some sort of topog-, you know, topography 

Kris Hampton  21:28

And the rock is slippery. 

Leif Gasch  21:40

Can be, yeah, it doesn't... I mean like most, I feel like some limestone is very frictiony. I wouldn't – I would categorize this dolomite as less friction.

Kris Hampton  22:36

Yeah. Especially the like, well-traveled really good warm ups for the harder routes. "Devil Wears Spurs" is one of the best routes up there, it's quite slippery. I've blown off of that before the first bolt after having climbed it 100 times.

Leif Gasch  22:54

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like most well-trafficed routes. You combine decades of traffic with a type of rock that doesn't lend itself to great friction. And I mean, yeah, a lot of stuff is, on the mostly popular routes, it can be very glassy. So yeah, I would say a stick clip. Certainly. But you know, you don't need kneepads. There's no, there's no knee-barring.

Kris Hampton  23:20

I actually got a knee bar on a route on the front side. One day, BJ was belaying me. And he very calmly said, "If you don't come out of that knee bar right now, I'm going to pull you off the wall."

Leif Gasch  23:37

I'm just blown away that you found a knee-bar at all. That's like the elusive fool's gold right there. Where? I want to know.

Kris Hampton  23:44

Only one I've ever seen at the Iris.

Leif Gasch  23:48

Yeah, yeah. Again, you know, not a lot of features so you don't, you're not, you know, feature climbing. I would say you know, the – I don't know how to describe this as maybe like, anything special, but – the, the location of the Iris, the position, the setting, the altitude, the sun. I think if you need, if you need anything special other than a stick clip, it would be preparedness for the elements. Yeah, I think, that I think, that gets more people than anything. Dehydration, sun, wind. Yeah, that can be a, it might not seem like it that much. But I if I had to say anything that you need to be more prepared for, I would say be prepared for the elements and you know, the environment that you're going to be climbing in.

Kris Hampton  24:33

Yeah, I agree with that. And I want to get into that. But before we do, I got one more little bit of special equipment that I found really helpful here. That is: pro tip here. Do you remember the old Evolv Optimus Primes? They had a really blunt toe. Couldn't climb shit at Wild Iris in those shoes. 

Leif Gasch  24:56

Sure. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  24:57

Don't bring a blunt toed shoe here, your pointy-ass toed shoes are going to be your friend. 

Leif Gasch  25:02

Yes, that is a great point. That is, that might be truly a secret weapon here. Yeah, there is a, there is a massive difference between... I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of like two very different shoe styles right now. But you know, you see a lot of Solutions. I see tons of Solutions. Yeah, something with a very distinct point, not like, "Oh, these are kind of offset," like you want a pointy, pointy toe. And you might actually be needing to step in a mono.

Kris Hampton  25:30

Yeah, the harder the routes get, the smaller the pockets get, the smaller the feet are going to be, because like you said, you're tracking a lot.

Leif Gasch  25:37

Yeah, yeah, that is, yeah, that's a really good point.

Kris Hampton  25:41

Alright, let's, uh, let's move into the When. And I think this is when the 'you're bringing all the layers because who knows what the hell the weather's going to be' really comes into play. When is the best time to climb at Wild Iris?

Leif Gasch  26:00

Oh, man. I, we're about to let out some secrets.

Kris Hampton  26:04

You might be ostracized from the community forever. 

Leif Gasch  26:10

I was gonna say, I see what you did. You just set me up and teed me up for this one. 

Kris Hampton  26:14

I'm not saying it. By the way, for everyone listening. This is Leif talking.

Leif Gasch  26:19

No, I mean, full disclosure: the best time to be here is not in the summer. Yeah, it's just too hot. It is just too hot. And I see people all the time climbing in the blazing sun in July during the festival, and the festival is a fun time to be here, for sure. It's not to be missed if you haven't been to one. But if you're talking, certainly if you're talking about climbing harder grades and harder routes, I feel like some of my best days at the Iris have been in October. You know, I mean, the shoulder seasons, the spring and fall, you know, I mean, or middle of May. And I know there was a big group of people that went up yesterday. And I'm told that conditions were awesome. I think shoulder seasons are probably the best. But that being said, it's very difficult at that altitude, you know, the Iris, it's just at 9000 feet, I think it's just under 9000 feet at "Rising". You know, you're not climbing in the shade, certainly, in October. It can be, I've done it before, but it is not enjoyable, especially on small pockets, that can be really dangerous. So, you know, I would say early summer, you know, May, early June, I think is a really good time to be up here, in the spring. And then in the fall. You know, when you start getting into September, you start getting the cooler nights. I think that's a really nice time because especially probably, I would say probably September, because that's where you're starting to get the cooler nights. And you still can climb on some of the shadier stuff on the backside. But if you do need to climb on the front, you're not absolutely cooking in the sun. Yeah, the temperatures are a little more manageable.

Kris Hampton  27:54

Yeah, I think September is my pick for best Wild Iris month in general. The reason it's so popular in the summer is because there's, there's not a lot of other places to climb in the US in the summer.

Leif Gasch  28:08

And it's not, It's not bad in the summer by any means. It can just be, just it can be... if you're not prepared for the sun and the exposure, that can that can ruin your day before it's even begun.

Kris Hampton  28:20

Yeah, it's really dry. So if you're coming from, you know, the southeast, where you're used to the humidity, it's going to feel like the best conditions you've ever climbed in, in the middle of July in the sun. Yeah, I remember coming here for the first few years and listening to all of you locals being like, "Oh, it's so humid today." And I'd be like, "My lips are cracking as I speak. It's not humid at all, you people are out of your minds." But now I'm in the same boat. I'm like, "Oh, it feels a little humid today."

Leif Gasch  28:55

"Oh my god, we're up to 20%."

Kris Hampton  28:57

We keep counting. Yeah.

Leif Gasch  29:00

Go to the waterpark. Yeah, yeah, I think the summer Yeah, the summer months, certainly around the festival can be good. And you can get good days. I mean, you know, if you if you get one of those nice big thunder heads, it rolls in the afternoon, you know, during the month of June or July or even August. Yeah, your site. I mean, you're kind of climbing anywhere, but it just it can be it's very dry. Altitude is a thing and the wind, you know, it can I mean the wind can just rip up there. And I think if you combine those three things, if it's sunny, windy, and you're a little dehydrated, it can it can feel a little overwhelming.

Kris Hampton  29:35

Yeah, it can be a rough day up there. If you're not prepared. Yeah. And like you just mentioned with the big Thunderhead that rolls through you know it that's a pretty normal thing up there to get some sort of afternoon shower summons you can set your watch by it. Yeah, thunderstorms can be quick but aggressive up there.

Leif Gasch  29:58

Not uncommon to get a fluke, snow or hailstorm? You know, for 30 seconds like that's that can happen.

Kris Hampton  30:06

Yeah, totally. So I think bringing all the layers is really important. You know, it might be 100 degrees in town, take a puffy with you always take a raincoat with you be prepared to be cold take pants

Leif Gasch  30:22

it's it I almost will never go up do it regardless of what time of year it is. You know, in certainly in the summer if I you know, if I leave town and I'm in shorts and a tank top, I make sure I have pants, some sort of long sleeve layer and some sort of at least like puffy. Yeah, you don't need you don't need the big ones, but at least some sort of jacket. Yeah, absolutely. And half the time you don't need it, you know, and you're, you're fine. But heaven forbid, everybody, every local has been up there at one point where you say, I'm not going to take anything. I'll be fine. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you get and you get hosed. You're walking out in the rain with the rope bag draped over here. So that's, that's happened to a lot of people. So

Kris Hampton  31:07

yeah, totally. Have you ever been caught in any like really crazy storms up there?

Leif Gasch  31:12

Yes. I mean, I think very specifically when I just mentioned that there was there was one day I we were young, I was young I was with Jeremy Rowan and he and I went up there in the summer and you know it was 95 in town or something like that and we're like we'll go up to the iris it's gonna be so much better. And we I was I was in a tank top and shorts. So it was he didn't think anything of it. And we were climbing at the hot tamale wall and this just massive thunderstorm moved in and just proceeded to dump I mean, just pouring rain and wind you know driving wind and we were hunkered underneath Crazy Horst over there on the left side that little tiny it's not even a cave it's a tiny little overhang and we were like this is this isn't letting up we got to get out of here and you know there was lightning and we ran out of there. I remember I had the rope tarp like draped over me just getting you know get to the got to the car just soaked. Yeah, like

Kris Hampton  32:04

it can get scary. Going out of there on those ridges when it's a full on lightning storm. 

Leif Gasch  32:10

Yeah, Little exposed and yeah, immediately you regretting the stick clip decision. Exactly. You know, like, it's funny. 

Kris Hampton  32:17

You, you're just handing it to your shorter partners. Yeah. Because everybody uses them

Leif Gasch  32:21

as walking sticks. And then the first crack of lightning happens and everybody just holds a flat like real low to the ground. You know, I'm like, kind of running. So

Kris Hampton  32:30

yeah, I remember being up there with Annalissa one summer evening. And we were over at Aspen glade wall. And big thunderstorm just rolls in lightning cracking and hitting the ridges. And she's a little terrified of it. And I'm like I used to I used to be really into landscape photography. And I'm like, I'm just waiting for the rainbow. Like there's gonna be rainbows. It's gonna be fucking amazing up here in 20 minutes, you know, and she we ended up going down into the Aspen's because we like, we don't want to stand up near this cliff on these ridges. And we go down into the Aspen's and there's, there's lightning cracking all over around us, you know, and you can feel the electricity in the air. And, sure enough, it clears up the sun comes back out these massive double rainbows, you know, just gorgeous. And I'm like, stand right there. Let me take a picture. And she, she's just staring at me and I have a photo of this moment. You can see it in her face. And she goes, Fuck you and your rainbows.

Leif Gasch  33:46

I have a hard time seeing your wife say that. But that's awesome.

Kris Hampton  33:50

I'll see if I could dig that photo up. But yeah, it can be really aggressive. But it can also be really beautiful. 

Leif Gasch  34:00

It's worth, it's worth, I think on that and yeah, yeah, it's just worth being prepared. You know, don't if you think you might, there's a chance you might need the jacket. Yeah, bring it,

Kris Hampton  34:09

you know. Yeah. And if you're like, if you're a person who really enjoys the social aspect of climbing, and that's what you're like, out for coming for the climbers festival. Wild Iris is going to be busy, but it's going to be a lot of fun. It's gonna be a lot of people there. If you're a curmudgeon like me, and you're not interested in the crowds coming in July is not the beta.

Leif Gasch  34:34

It can be well and that can feel pretty overwhelming. You know, we haven't really talked about necessarily about like the scope of the crag itself of the cliff, the main certainly the main Cliff itself, but you know, the walls are kind of broken up into these little chunks. You know, it's not like one just clean giant band of rock and so, you know, certainly the Hot Tamale wall is one that always comes to mind because it's such a good wall I mean ever sewed on that wall is amazing. and but you know, if you have four parties there, it's busy. During the festival, you might be there might be 12 parties there, you know, it might be 3d on some routes and that can you know, there's not a ton of space at the base of the wall like that it can feel overwhelming. If there's big crowds. Totally. If you're if you thrive on that, or if that's part of your climbing experience, you're going to be super psyched. Yeah, you know, but if you want to go up there and just say, oh, I want to get on X route and X route and X route. Yeah, that might not happen during that time. So

Kris Hampton  35:28

Yeah, I agree. That's, that's good beta, you know, it definitely does split up into little chunks. So it's also you know, if you roll up and there's parties at your little chunk, and it feels too overwhelming, it's entirely possible that the next little chunk down the wall, as you get further from like, the main popular central areas, sure, might be totally empty.

Leif Gasch  35:52

Well, and if you're willing to hike a little bit more, you know, we keep talking about the back side. And again, for you know, the topography of the place, there's the you know, the kind of the main wall, but then the quote, unquote, backside is actually separate satellite crags that face north, but you know, if you go down to the lower remuda, rarely have I ever gone down there and seen crowds, you know, there, you might run into maybe another party or two, but I feel like rarely do you actually, will people walk that far back? You know, what is 20 minutes from the car? Maybe? Yeah. From the from the aspect of a parking lot? I don't know. Little bit further. Certainly. If you're parking at the main lot. Yeah. I think it's like an hour to get back there. Yeah, but now we've got some better parking data. So yeah, you can Yeah, you can. Oftentimes, you can spread out if you're wanting to be a little flexible.

Kris Hampton  36:40

I think so. Alright, let's talk a little bit about the how that's what people are here for. They want to know, how the hell do you prepare for wild Iris? And I think, actually, like when I was learning to climb in the 90s, and the gyms, it was a little easier because two finger pockets were like the rage. Yeah. Every gym had hundreds of Yaniro two finger pockets everywhere. So when I first came here, I felt really prepared. But that may not be the case for everybody.

Leif Gasch  37:18

No, and I, as much as I hate to say that there's I think one thing that you need. Because you know, as a coach, I'm sure you feel the same way that I don't ever believe in a magic bullet. I don't I don't subscribe to the idea that well, if you just do this one thing, right? That's really going to make a big difference. It but I would say for the wild Iris if you've not been here, and you really do want to train for it. And you want to prepare and come here with you know, your your one week vacation and really maximize that. If there is one thing it would be having good strong fingers that are ready and prepared for pocket climbing. Yeah. And that includes spending some time climbing on pockets. Absolutely. I think that is probably the biggest. Yeah, that's the biggest advantage you could give yourself.

Kris Hampton  38:04

Yeah, I'm glad you said specifically climbing on pockets. Because while I think hanging on pockets hanging on to finger can can be really helpful. And you know, if you've got nothing else then great, you should do that. But climbing on pockets is a different game than hanging on pockets, the torque is different.

Leif Gasch  38:26

I was just gonna say like moving you know, I mean, there I can't think of there are so many routes where yeah, you might take a pocket one way. But as you're moving up the wall, it goes, you know, I mean, you're twisting it 360 degrees or something, you know, or you know, matching in it or I mean it's just it's a very different Yeah, pockets are not you know, most climbing holds are directional. Yeah. And pockets are often multi directional and necessary and they need to be multi directional for that specific sequence or that route or whatever. So, yeah, I like I would agree with you on that. Just hanging on pockets. Great. If that's all you've got, do that that's going to be a leg up, but certainly actually spending some time climbing on pocketed sequences. Yeah, I think absolutely.

Kris Hampton  39:10

I mean, even like the precision of landing in a pocket like if you're doing a big move. landing a pocket is wildly different than slapping a sloper that's so common in in big commercial gyms. 

Leif Gasch  39:23

Yeah, it's a hell of a lot easier to deadpoint a crimp than it is yeah, a two finger at your max extension, you know,

Kris Hampton  39:29

totally. Yeah. So those are super important skills to learn. I also think, you know, and this is maybe another one of those tips like the pointy shoes but maximize being able to use your back three fingers, I think at the wild Iris, especially if you're doing a lot of like crossing into a pocket. This is going to be a visual demonstration. So it's gonna be hard to get on a podcast but you know, if you if you imagine you're crossing across your body big cross to a pocket. Your front three fingers don't form a straight line, most of us don't. So if you're trying to cross into a pocket, you're only going to get the middle two into there. Yeah, the front one might not make it into the pocket if it's relatively shallow, but your back three do form this straight line that you can dig into a pocket when you're making these big crosses, and sometimes back three, and a straight line just fits better than those front, I

Leif Gasch  40:24

was just gonna say, while there are pockets here that are very specific, not specific, but like they're they I think this is why people think they're fake, because you'll look at them. And they're just they have this real uniform shape or feature to them. And then like that, that can't form naturally, that happens, but a lot of them aren't. Right, and they will be significantly deeper on one side and shallower on the other. And that's where that back three, the back team. I mean, really, if you want to be as prepared as possible, you need to be able to use front team, middle team and back three, like have all of those at the ready. Totally. But I think that is that's a skill that we don't you know that you don't you don't come across that certainly in any sort of gym setting, you know, where it will make a huge difference. Yeah, whether you're using I mean, sometimes, you know, the front team fits perfect. And other times, it doesn't fit at all, but middle team fits fine. You know? So I mean, sometimes you have to just play around with that.

Kris Hampton  41:22

Yeah. And that's good beta for when you're, if you're working on something hard here projecting something, try out the different teams of fingers in these pockets, because you know, you might prefer just using your middle two, but your front two might fit so much better and make the difference. 

Leif Gasch  41:38

It can be game changing. Yeah, truly game changing from I can't do this move to Oh, okay. And we're on to the next.

Kris Hampton  41:44

Yeah. And another feature of the pockets here. When you're climbing when you hit a pocket, don't just accept that that's the pocket. Yeah, you might find another Yeah, sub pocket hidden inside the pocket that changes the way you hold it. That makes it easier.

Leif Gasch  42:01

Yeah, I will. And to kind of like recycle back to your comment about onsighting being hard here. I think that's, you know, certainly if you're climbing. Gosh, I don't know, I'm thinking of Smith rock, like, it's pretty easy to look at holds climbing at Smith. Yep. And say like, there's the thumb chalk. That's what you know, this is the sequence. This is what I'm gonna do the holes, aren't there. No, they're not big, huge rails. It's like, you know, how you need to grab those more or less, you know, within a few degrees, but it can be really challenging here. Yeah, if you take a pocket wrong, and you don't know, oh, actually, if you twist up on that thing, and kind of like, take it like a side pull. You know, that's, that's a jug. But if you pull straight down on it, not very good at all. Yeah. So lots of that twisting into a pocket happen, which is going to happen inherently, I think in the style of climbing too. Right? You know, it's not like you're, you're grabbing things and then pulling straight down the entire time, you're almost always twisting on which I think that again, you know, skin. You know, I don't know if we're going to talk about skincare, but that's a, that can be real thing.

Kris Hampton  43:02

Yeah, if you have the option to climb on sharp pockets, you know, then you should absolutely prepare yourself by climbing on some sharp pockets, because you're gonna build up calluses on the sides of your fingers, as opposed to just on the past. Yeah,

Leif Gasch  43:17

I was gonna I mean, I feel like every time I get into a route or start getting into a season where we're going to be up there a bunch and it's like, oh, man, this the pocket we call it pocket skin. And it's it's not your pads. It's not your tips. It's that really soft stuff on the sides, then most climbers never I mean, it's virgin skin for a lot of people. Yeah. And that can be I mean, that can be like limiting in your day, you know, if you are twisting on something repeatedly. I mean, it's pretty easy to cut through that. If you're not, you're not calloused up. So yeah,

Kris Hampton  43:47

absolutely. And some beta that I like if you're climbing on, you know, there are enough sharp pockets here that you're going to encounter one Yeah, eventually. And if the sides of your fingers aren't prepared for it, you're probably going to get pretty tender quickly and not want to grab that pocket again. So I really like to if I'm working on something that that has a sharp pocket on it that I know I'm going to be digging into the sides of my fingers. I like to pre tape. Tape up for those working goes. I really like our circuit tape. A lot of the locals here use our circuit tape exactly for this reason. tape up the sides of your fingers where the pocket hits and then when you're feeling like okay redpoint time. If you don't feel good claiming a tape then you can take it off and you've got fresh skin.

Leif Gasch  44:33

Yeah, the prophylactic tape can be a game changer in just in how many goals you can get in a day. Yeah, on certain things. I mean, that can be the difference between I get a couple of tries on this versus Oh, I can spend an hour you know, working out the sequences. So yeah.

Kris Hampton  44:48

One of the things I noticed about wild Iris when I first started climbing here is that like coming up through the grades, the 5.9, the 5.10s you might find A random mono on a 5.9 that makes the move Yes, here, you know. And the pot, you will find some small pockets on some of the lower level climbs. So building up through the grades here makes perfect sense in that regard, you know, which I think is really, really cool. Yeah, but a lot of climbing areas have a distinct spot where things really shift or a new skill is really valuable to have. And I think wild Iris, there's a there's a really distinct place, because a lot of the five, you know, 5.11 and below are mostly vertical, or very lightly overhanging. Yes. And then once you get past it, you start to get some really steeper sections of climbs and smaller holds you you agree with that?

Leif Gasch  46:01

Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, in my mind, I always think of the Iris as being very linear in terms of how you can progress through the grades where you just said it, you said it perfectly. There's a lot of areas where you get if you want to break into a new grade, you need to have X skill now in your you know, in your repertoire. That's, I don't really feel like that's the case here. I feel like yeah, if you work your way through the 5.10s, they prepare you very well, for the 5.11s. If you work your way through those, they prepare you very well, for the 5.12s you do start to get into some different terrain. You know, I can't think of hardly any 5.10s that go through any of the beerbelly bulges through the big roofs.

Kris Hampton  46:39

Yeah, you're almost always really standing on your feet on 5.10s here,

Leif Gasch  46:44

but you know, and I don't want to say that it's that it is truly linear. But yeah, typically the pockets on like, the easier routes, the lower grade routes are bigger. Yeah, there might be a small one. But chances are you're going to use it and you're gonna have good feet, and then you're right back to another jug or another big pocket or edge or something like that. But yes, there Yeah, you kind of I think the holes do tend to get a little bit smaller. You do. My and this is I can't say this scientifically, I haven't gone through the guidebook. And like actually noted this, but off the top of my head. I can't think of a 5.13+ route that doesn't have a mono on it. Yeah. Period. Yep. I mean, across the board. Yeah, I might be missing one. But you know, I mean, what I guess what I'm getting at is that at as you progress through the grades, certainly in the 5.12 range, you're going to start to get into some smaller pockets might not necessarily be monos. But you're certainly going to have something shallow. You know, when you get into 5.13, you should definitely be prepared to climb on, you know, smaller, shallower two finger pockets with only a mono

Kris Hampton  47:53

with less feet. Yeah, yeah. So it's gonna be on those fingers.

Leif Gasch  47:57

You know that a lot of the 5.13's tackle some of those steeper features, which are really cool. It's a very different style of climbing. Yeah, compared to you know, some of the I mean, I think of a route like Boy is a great example or anything down on the Cowboy Poetry where you, you know, you climb on. 

Kris Hampton  48:13

You would bring up that route. It's just it's one gigantic move.

Leif Gasch  48:19

It's kind of it's a little ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah, the full route is take your hat off, boy, take your hat off as the 5.10. And then boy is the extension.

Kris Hampton  48:30

Yeah and take your hat off is a really good example. Because there is a mono right at the bottom. That I think is the easiest way to do the move. You've got a huge foot, but it's this great mono pocket and you're like, Oh, I'm on a 510 and I'm doing a I'm making a big pull off of mono.

Leif Gasch  48:46

And you know what, there? That's where training for like getting yourself familiar with pulling on pockets. Yeah, if you've never done it before, I have a very distinct memory of friends from Colorado years ago, we're teenagers. And again, it's a visual reference. But you know, you want to hang on your you want to try and hang on the joint, you want to find a nice spot where a joint kind of contacts the lip, and sometimes that means taking things shallower. But they were just sticking their finger in straight and just like trying to keep the fingers straight. And I walked out. I was like, stop, stop. What are you doing? You know, yeah, we're Yeah, if you're if you're a little familiar with the pockets, yeah, motto is don't have to be scary. They just need a modicum of respect, you know? Yeah. So

Kris Hampton  49:30

well, that you just brought up another skill that I think is really interesting that wild Iris, you have to be somewhat proficient, especially if you're climbing at like the 5.13 level at Wild Iris that you maybe don't encounter very many other places. And that's that. You have to be able to do these like broken up pulls where you do a big move, you grab a hold and then you have to pull your hand out of the pocket before you make the upward momentum for the next move. Yeah, a lot of people here have broken fingers. Getting them stuck in pockets because they're initiating this big move before they pull their hand out of the pocket. 

Leif Gasch  50:12

That route Last Man, it gets everyone, I've done it, Lindsey, I don't know anyone that's climbed on that route that hasn't done that where you reach up, you get you take a really good mono. And you reach up to that really good pocket. And then you have to go again, you have to go with the left hand and that everybody initially buries that mono because you can and you don't think about I need to pull this thing out and get it ready. And everybody. I mean, I You hear that crack, and you just know you're like, Oh, somebody's on last man.

Kris Hampton  50:44

I ratcheted my finger on that pocket. And then I ended up not even grabbing it for the rest of the time. I was grabbing some little cramp. Yes, I'm like, I'm not gonna break my finger.

Leif Gasch  50:54

But that's like, that's just a skill that unless you've you've practice climbing on pockets, you would never think that when you went you know, it's not like your hand ever gets stuck in a jam. Right? You know, like, your hand never gets stuck in a crimp. I mean, it's just it's a very different and very unique aspect of climbing on on deeper pockets. Certainly. So and tight fitting pockets, I should say, too.

Kris Hampton  51:17

Yeah. So and that's sort of you know, that that ability to pull your hand out of a pocket and then make a big move off of, you know, not having anything to pull with with that low hand. I think that's a skill we've mentioned already, you're making big pools. But I think in the 5.12 range of wild Iris is where it really starts to come into play in a in a big way. Yeah, you know, if you think of things like burnt beans, or what's the other 12 be back there, Court and Spark. Big moves. And it's, that's where the ability to not have to pair up in the middle of a move comes into play. Yeah, very isolated moves. Yeah. So the moves are big, but they're not like, like weeding out the height of a person big, it's more like, you might do a three foot move, and then do another, the next hold is three feet further. So then you're doing a six foot move, and you could still be relatively short and make these moves work. In fact, that might even be to your benefit to be able to get high feet. Right.

Leif Gasch  52:26

Right, So some of those things, maybe you fit in a box better? Yeah, yeah.

Kris Hampton  52:30

So I do think that's a skill that comes into play at the 5.12 level.

Leif Gasch  52:36

Yeah, and I, you know, I think about I've had people ask me, you know, I don't know, just, you know, you talk about grades and, and I don't like to put too much stock into it, but they are, I mean, they're a measuring tool, you know, and I think that's for sure. And that's important at a place like this that can be so fingery for a lot of people, I do think that's important. You know, I think the lower grades you know, certainly your your anything, you know, call it mid 511 and under is very can be very, it for the most part is very recreational climbing. It's really some of my favorite routes, my the most enjoyable routes that the Iris I would say are 5/11s and 5.10s for sure. They're just like, it's just giggle climbing, you know, it's just fun climbing. Yeah. When you when you kind of start working into 11 plus certainly 512 And definitely 5.13 It's, it's there, there's more necessity for specificity in the route and how you're climbing it and having some sort of skill set that you can kind of draw on in some sort of experience because not that it doesn't happen but rarely do people just walk up here and say like, Oh, that looks like a cool 5.12 And then they just, you know, flash it or on site and like I have a I'm gonna have all day like that, like that doesn't happen all that often. So yeah,

Kris Hampton  53:51

yeah, and I think you know, I'm glad you said that some of the best climbing here is at the lower grades. I think especially if you like if you want to master those styles that are that you need in the harder routes here like the big poles that can be really fucking fun. Like so much fun doing that style of climbing you just feel like you're swimming you know that stuff is available at the at the lower levels there are some really amazing 10s And 11s Devil Wears Spurs comes to mind there's some big pulls between holds that you can avoid you can like crimp on little tiny things in between but you can also really learn how to master that style by skipping some of the tiny little intermediate stuff on those routes and they become really fun then.

Leif Gasch  54:45

The Devil is a perfect example. Yeah, there's I mean, that route is has seen so much traffic at this point. There's just shit chocked up everywhere that doesn't need to be you know, a small thing fine, you know, whatever people need that and that's how that helps them.

Kris Hampton  54:59

Oh, the first time I did Did I think I grabbed everything.

Leif Gasch  55:01

Oh, like all of it. But once you know, I don't know, I think I remember talking to BJ years ago, and we're like, how many times if we've done the devil, and we just did like a quick, you know, campfire math assessments. And I think we figured we'd done it close to 1000 times I believe it. And I have a sequence. Now I could do that thing in my sleep blindfolded backwards, you know, whatever. Totally. But I know very specifically, like, yeah, there's certain holes I skip, because it's just more fun. It's it flows. So well. Yeah, I know, you know, I'm like, oh, no, skip that little to thing and just go a little bit deeper to the big pocket. And that is a, that's a perfect example of yeah, that is the exact kind of movement that you will experience on routes, like cord and spark, or, you know, Silverbell is the other one that comes to mind like big isolated long. And when you actually do it, you're like, Man, this is cool.

Kris Hampton  55:53

You feel so cool. So flowy

Leif Gasch  55:55

Well, you know, even for the, you know, for the for the hardest routes, like the Houlihan is a great example. I mean, that's, I mean, what it's like 11 moves, you know, to the top of that, maybe it's more than that, I can't remember, but it's you know, I mean that you you climb a tree, I mean, you climb the entire length of that block. In, yeah, two handfuls of moves.

Kris Hampton  56:14

Yeah. And you know, there are routes, like, say, Wind and Rattlesnakes, there's this one panel in the middle of the route, where there's one pocket in the center of the panel. And that's, yeah, you do a big move to the pocket, you do a big move off the pocket. And it's so fun. It's so cool. And you can prepare really well. On the Devil Wears Spurs, the 10ds, the 11b's, for that style of move. And I actually think while the gym the the normal commercial gym setting doesn't always set you up well for it. I think if you use a little of your own, like rulemaking, you can set yourself up well, for that style by just not allowing yourself to pair up, you know, force yourself to move between the holds without pairing up all the time. Yeah. And you'll be really well prepared for wild Iris.

Leif Gasch  57:09

Yeah, I would. That's that's a whole other podcast, we talked about gym setting, but I have clients that struggle with that a lot. Because they're like, Oh, the gyms not set for doing this, you know, moves like exactly like we're talking about. And I will often tell them, like, No, you might have to build this like you might have, you might actually have to put a little thought into what you're going to grab. Yep. But it's worth it. It's worth paying attention to that. And especially like you said, you know, it used to be pockets were abundant in climbing gyms. And they're just, I mean, you know, you come across a few here and there making a comeback. Yeah, but rarely do that. You know, I mean, rarely are you gonna go to a major commercial gym and do a 60 foot route on two fingers. You know, that's, that's not really going to happen. But being yeah, having that awareness and being prepared for that can be Yeah, that can be terribly beneficial in preparing for this place.

Kris Hampton  57:58

Totally. Let's, uh, for the folks who are planning a trip here. People love tick lists. I love tick lists. You know, I love having boxes to check check

Leif Gasch  58:07

the boxes, man. Let's, uh,

Kris Hampton  58:09

let's give some, some of our favorites. Our must dues. Let's start with 5.10 and under what's your give me your number one, or whatever comes to mind first ask me and then we'll put a list of of extras in the blog post for this podcast. So 510 or under? What's your number one?

Leif Gasch  58:39

There are there are a lot

Kris Hampton  58:41

there are and there are a lot of great ones.

Leif Gasch  58:43

And they're hard. That's that's actually a difficult question because I know I know what I'm gonna say. But I see it conflicted. Because I am I and I say this it's a personal thing. It's a personal thing.

Kris Hampton  58:55

I'm gonna I know what you're gonna say too. I think I'm gonna give a different one just because I think I'm gonna say the same thing.

Leif Gasch  59:01

Okay. i Yeah, I think for 5.10 and under I think the devil were spurs is one of the single finest pitches of rock climbing up there.

Kris Hampton  59:14

And there could be a debate for whether that should be in the 5.11 category.

Leif Gasch  59:20

Absolutely because yeah, the devil wears spurs gets 10d and like we were talking about, you know, that there's a lot of there's a lot of small stuff on that route that's chalked up. Yeah. And there's an I like doing a kind of the bigger sweeping way through those pockets. I like the devil because it is.

Kris Hampton  59:40

It's friendly. Yep.

Leif Gasch  59:42

And there's there's nothing threatening on that route. I think for the average 510 climber that's new to pockets. Even at the 10d You know, possibly, maybe it feels a little bit harder than that grade. Yeah. Your the chances of you hurting yourself on that are slim.

Kris Hampton  59:57

I have 100 percent, I have caught a 5.14 plus climber who fell off of their on site on Delaware spurs. So if you're a 10d climber and you're gunning for the devil, don't feel bad if it feels really hard for you,

Leif Gasch  1:00:17

and that's what makes that's, that's the reason I say that's my favorite. Because there's a lot of other 5.10s that are just as enjoyable, but less thought provoking. Yeah, but the devil you there even attendee it requires, you know, good route finding good route reading. I bet yeah. In my mind for the package. I mean, I'd be I'd be remiss to not say that so yeah, yep. Devil.

Kris Hampton  1:00:42

All right. I was gonna say devil as well, but I knew you were going. So. So I'm gonna say this one's a little more accessible, I think also very fun. And it has another one right next to it. That's just a step up. So I'm gonna say Claim Jumper at the okay corral. Nice. Yeah. Really fun. And really kind of fits the archetypal wild Iris style, like slabby on your feet to an overhanging section at the top. Yeah.

Leif Gasch  1:01:15

And again, like comfortable holds. Yep. Like, yeah, well bolted, like, very approachable to grade. Yeah,

Kris Hampton  1:01:21

there's a distinct, easier sequence. Or you can make it quite a bit harder if you want to. Yeah. Which I think is what happens at a lot of the wild Iris. Yeah. Alright, let's go. 5.11 What's your pick?

Leif Gasch  1:01:35

Oh, and that's a tough one. I feel like 5.11 is tough, because they're all gonna be tough. Well, I will, but I don't know. 5.11 stuff. And I think and this is why I say that because five, there's a big difference between the 11a and 11d No doubt big difference. You know, I don't know many 11a's that require you know, small pocket pulling. I mean, they they're there but I, I'm gonna go with I think my favorite is probably Zorro. And the Zorro wall.

Kris Hampton  1:02:06

Good one. Yeah.

Leif Gasch  1:02:08

I think it's overlooked because it's, you know, and that was one of the very first crags bolted up there as bolted before the main wall. Yeah. And it's just it's overlooked. It's kind of hidden back there. Again, hidden in plain sight. Yeah, but I think I think Zorro is yeah, it's it's not as trafficked as other things, but it is. It's got amazing movement. It's got cool holds.

Kris Hampton  1:02:31

Yeah, yeah. Now you got me reeling a little bit because I was gonna go, I thought I knew what you were gonna say. So I was gonna choose something different. But you didn't choose what I thought you were gonna What do you think I was gonna say? I thought you were gonna say Cowboy Poetry. So I think that's gonna be my pick. Yeah,

Leif Gasch  1:02:48

no great one. That's great. I think it's fantastic though. I

Kris Hampton  1:02:51

will say I'm breaking my own rule here. The 11 Right next to Claim Jumper Winchester Pump is also amazing.

Leif Gasch  1:02:57

Well, I was hoping you were gonna mention that one because I mean, that's when you said you know, Claim Jumper I'm like, well, that's I mean, that's just where you can you know, that's like Wind River rose and The Shootist. So I mean, you just how often you stack two routes that are just exactly one step above the other one, but like both are musters.

Kris Hampton  1:03:11

Yeah, so good. Yeah. All right. 5.12. Good luck.

Leif Gasch  1:03:18

Nope, don't need it. American Beauty.

Kris Hampton  1:03:21

Ah, all right.

Leif Gasch  1:03:22

I like it. American Beauty at the Aspen glade.

Kris Hampton  1:03:24

Tell me about it.

Leif Gasch  1:03:27

The Aspen glade for those that aren't familiar is another one of these satellite crags off the backside.

Kris Hampton  1:03:34

What's really cool about tough crag in the summer,

Leif Gasch  1:03:37

yeah, it sits down lower you hike up onto the ridge and then you descend back down into the valley. And so it kind of sits nestled it's it faces south but it's It's nestled in that you know, kind of in that little nook, and it's it's a bit of a solar collector maybe more so than then even the front side on the main wall. I think so. I don't think it gets the wind that you know, at least the main wall yet if you're

Kris Hampton  1:03:59

If you're here in the summer,  evenings are the time for the Aspen Glade wall. 

Leif Gasch  1:04:02

yeah. But the cool thing about the Aspen glade and and that's in that section in particular is that it is the tallest of all of the walls. Maybe that maybe that rodeo Queen buttresses as tall across the way but I mean, it's, it's it's cool. I mean, you actually get like, you know, I don't know, 6070 feet out of those roots, I think. Yeah. But American Beauty so I really love it at 12b It's got a long, kind of like that gets it's a little slabby down low. But like we'll call it a vertical panel of climbing. And then it is capped by another one of the you know, the big beer belly bulge roofs. 

Kris Hampton  1:04:42

maybe the most famous beerbelly bulge.

Leif Gasch  1:04:45

it is what yeah, you can you can get the hero shot on that thing very easily. And you've you've all seen the photo of of that bulge you just didn't know that this amazing 5.12 is on that.

Kris Hampton  1:04:56

Yeah, there was like an old really famous photo of Jason Campbell.

Leif Gasch  1:05:00

I think that yeah it was, it was Sondra It was either Sondra or Scott's photo of Jason on cowboy king.

Kris Hampton  1:05:05

And, and since then every photographer who's ever come to wild Iris has taken the same photo.

Leif Gasch  1:05:11

I mean, it's an epic hero shot. Yeah. You know, like, yeah, it's really cool. But American movement on American Beauty is really cool. And I think it is very typical of the type of climbing that 5.12 yields. You know, a lot of two fingers a lot of technical, you know, like hard technical pulls, but you get a nice rest right at the top. And then you know, and it's kind of intimidating, you know, it's sort of like the first time you're in the madness cave her some you almost wish you didn't have that rest. Yeah, you look behind you and the drawers are hanging straight down, and the whole valley is behind you. And it's like, Ooh, this is a little little airy, but then cast into that, that final, I don't even know what it is. I mean, not it's not even that long, like 10 or 15 feet of overhanging climbing. And it's just, I would call that hero climbing to you know, it's just really the holes are comfortable. The feet are right where you want them. And you're just you're like, I want a two finger right there. And it's, you know, sinker and the the position and the exposures just yeah, that's, I think it typify or Yeah, typifies, like, what I would call wild Iris climbing. But you get so much of it compared to other other really good 5.12s that are, you know, over in 30 seconds.

Kris Hampton  1:06:21

Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good pick. I hadn't, I hadn't thought about the like, proximity to the, like the photo of wild iris and very much fits the archetypal style. And you know what, what people thought of wild Iris looked like, for ever. Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's a really good pick. I'm going Wind and Rattlesnakes. Nice. I have good memories of it. It's got a cool history here. FA'd by Amy Skinner bolted by Todd Skinner

Leif Gasch  1:06:59

is a very typical route. I mean, that's yeah, I mean, that's boilerplate wild Iris right there.

Kris Hampton  1:07:04

Yeah. Really, really good little hang down by that route. You know, I just have great memories. There it was, I went climbing up at the iris with my friend, Yasmine, and BJ, one of my first trips here. And BJ took us over to that and I onsite it it probably my proudest on site at the Iris at the time, you know, and, and then belaying my wife on it for a while while she worked on it and took some like, big falls off of it really going for it, which was not typical for her. So yeah, I have great memories of that route. And that's the one for me.

Leif Gasch  1:07:48

Yeah, there's very, there's very little if anything you can take away from that as a pitch of rock climbing.

Kris Hampton  1:07:53

Yeah. And it sort of flips the, the wild Iris archetype on its head in that it's steep at the bottom. And then kind of turns a little more techie. Yeah. With some bigger pulls near the top.

Leif Gasch  1:08:09

Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's the Yeah, it's almost like it's yeah, the the businesses are flipped.

Kris Hampton  1:08:14

Yeah. And there's almost a sloper up there. There's like, I don't call it a sloper. But my wife definitely called.

Leif Gasch  1:08:23

I know the hold Yeah, I can see I see both sides. Im not getting in the middle of that one.

Kris Hampton  1:08:29

All right. 5.13. And up, and if needed, you can include your absolute favorite route. In this category.

Leif Gasch  1:08:38

Why me again,

Kris Hampton  1:08:39

because I know what your favorite route is.

Leif Gasch  1:08:41

I yeah, I mean, I we are we going we're going best, best or favorite.

Kris Hampton  1:08:51

This is the one people should do the one that people should do. What's the one they should do? You just made me change my

Leif Gasch  1:09:00

man. You know, this was we talked about this beforehand. And I was like, I think I know what I'm gonna say. And I'm like, man, now that I'm sitting here in the hot seat, it's, it's tough. There's a lot of really good options, because I really do feel that at the wild Iris, there's great routes at all grades, I really do feel like at the 5.13 grade, that's where the that's where it's the perfect combination of the technical skills, the fitness. I mean, there are a lot of routes that really shine especially in the lower 5.13 range. I think the one you should do is I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna call an audible here I'm gonna go with Cow Reggae on the Rodeo Wave

Kris Hampton  1:09:41

Mmm. Okay, Why is that the one you should do here?

Leif Gasch  1:09:46

I think if you are capable of I think if you are coming here and you are climbing in the 5.13+ grade range. That's one that is not to be missed because it is it is a typical little bit of the iris and the features. But it is the epitome of what I would consider hard Wild Iris climbing. It's got good holds. It's got really cool moves. It's honest, it keeps you honest at the grade like you have to you have to work for that when that they you know, that is not a gimme that, that that crux on that thing is it's real. It's real. And it's little holds. Yeah, I mean you have and you have to be you have to employ all of the tactics. You have to employ good footwork on small holds on small pockets. Yep, you have to be strong. I just I think that is that is a real feather in the cap. It's not my favorite.

Kris Hampton  1:10:39

Yeah, but I agree with you there. It even has a, if you should choose to rest in the midst of the 15 moves that are cow reggae, there's a rest on a mono

Leif Gasch  1:10:49

and you are psyched.

Kris Hampton  1:10:54

That's one of the better holds on the route. Yeah, yeah. That's so funny. You talk

Leif Gasch  1:10:58

You talk about that. It's like don't rest on the gold pan rests on the mono. What? Yeah, that's true.

Kris Hampton  1:11:05

Yeah. Good pick. I like that. I was going to say atomic cow which ends on cow reggae. Yeah, but instead I'm gonna go when I was a young girl, I had me a cowboy. It was my first 13 day here. Also an Amy Skinner route bolted by Todd Skinner. And I think it's just a lot of people's first wild Iris 13a Sure yeah. Not quite as aggressive hold wise. Less potential for injury. does have some big pulls. I had a really cool moment. When I when I was sending I had been hiking back there from the read mind you. I was parking at the main parking hiking all the way back. There had been draws on it all week. So I'm like I'm not carrying all that shit. I hiked back there with below ran. Oh, nice. Didn't bring draws. Course not. There were no draws on the route when I got there. So Bill and I cobbled together what we had in our packs. So I told him we don't need draws Yeah. Cobbled together so I had like three lockers. I had a couple extended draws that I disassembled and I just hung karabiners on the bolts. And I get to that final move up there where you can do a couple of different things. I was making a big move to a sloper and there was this massive butterfly sitting on the sloper and I was like, I could crush the butterfly. Then I might slip off the sloper right. So double double whammy, you know, so I tried shooing the butterfly away, just hanging on there and it wouldn't leave. So I fell off. And then I sennext go.

Leif Gasch  1:12:57

But that's your that's your karma. That's your karma. Yeah,

Kris Hampton  1:12:59

I totally didn't squash the butterfly. So I was allowed, not allowed passage.

Leif Gasch  1:13:06

You know, the cool thing about and I think this is different than I think the one thing that really sets young girl apart from all the other 5.13s at the Iris and I say this, I'd say that seriously. Like all the other 5.13s. It doesn't matter what your size is, there's no matter how there's about 30 different ways. There's a way to do that route. Yeah, I have seen wild sequences, you know, and I go up there now and I look at it and I'm like, I don't even remember which holds I grab, you know, like, there's so many things struck, but no matter what you're you know, like if you're climbing 5.13 No matter your height, your finger ability, your, you know, whatever your nuances, whatever that route is 13a Yep. No matter how you slice it for everyone across the board. 6'7", 4' 11" like 5.13 Yeah, and that is what's so cool about it so approachable.

Kris Hampton  1:13:57

Yep. And some of the betas like you know, there's a wild rose move you could do that a lot of people do. That's the way I did it. There's there's some giant moves between under cleanings and, and good down pools. You've got a great photo of Lindsay doing a massive move off the undercling. Yeah, so such a cool yeah, cool route. Yeah. All right. Favorite absolute favorite single personal favorite route at the wild Iris,

Leif Gasch  1:14:26

Cowboy King. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  1:14:28

I have not done it, so I can't choose it. I have not even tried it. Oh my god, it's on my list of I gotta finish 100 5.13s.

Leif Gasch  1:14:36

You think you know a guy.

Kris Hampton  1:14:39

haven't even tried it. Because I was always here in the summers.

Leif Gasch  1:14:43

Yeah, no, of course. There. No, I remember there was it was, I think in the early 2000s. When I was when I moved back. I had lived in Bend for a little bit and was climbing it Smith and I came back here and I had just a different approach to how I want it to be come a better climber. And I made the checklists. And I still have them there. I refuse to get rid of these things. I mean, I printed them out. And they have little boxes. Yes, tours, you know, and how can I think I even put some like, like some filigree across the top or something in Microsoft Word. Yeah. But I did that for like a number of years, like four or five years in a row. And I had these lists at all the all the cracks around sinks, and I was like, these are the routes I want to do. And it was everything. And I compiled the list by saying, you know, I think there were like, 20 routes on there. And I was like, I know, I'm gonna do some of these, like, Claim Jumper, you know, there were the claim jumpers on there. I'm like, this is a given. And then there were routes like the Hoolahan, where I'm like, I'm probably not going to be able to do this this year. But I want that as a goal. And I had the spectrum. And one of the routes on I think it was my, like my 2004 2005 list was cowboy King, because I'd looked at it. And it was so intimidating, because I'd done choke cherry eyes and American Beauty next to it. But I mean, you know, you're on American Beauty and you look over you're like, Man that tackles the most like sinister looking part of this clip. And it's just it's so intimidating. And that was a real, I remember the day I hiked back there to hang drawers, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna commit to doing this thing, like, and I was still a little Yeah, I was a little spooked by it, I was a little scared of it, you know, like, but it was a real experience for me, like projecting that. And what I found out was that it's not nearly as terrifying as it seems, you know, it's just when you actually are in the belly of that roof. And you're, you know, you're sucked up into the underclass, and you're doing the wild, moves out the lip. It was a very empowering experience, where I was like, okay, I can climb harder routes, I just need to not get in my own way, you know, and I remember the day I did it, I was like, I don't want to get my feet cut, I don't want to get my feet cut. And like, that's the beta, you cut your feet, and you campus those last few moves, which just seems so counterintuitive at that point. You're like, I need to be conserving my energy. And it's like, no, like, you know, this is gonna sound so corny, but like, you gotta let her buck. You know, you got to just like, and, you know, when you do you know, you do that final sequence campusing up to the chains, and then you kick your feet back on. I mean, it's like, yeah, that was it's really cool. And the position is amazing. You're on that same cool buttress. I mean, I have an emotional attachment to that route, for sure. But it was, it was the first route that really made me decide that I was like, I think I want to try hard things here.

Kris Hampton  1:17:28

That's cool. Yeah, that's cool. I have a very distinct memory of the first route that I made the decision to campus through. And it felt like this moment, you know, like, Oh, I'm, you know, I've crossed the threshold.

Leif Gasch  1:17:42

Right? Well, you know, I mean, certainly at this point in my life, as a coach, I'm like, keep your feet on, like, I'm smarter. Come on, save that energy. But yeah, every once in a while,

Kris Hampton  1:17:53

I think it's really cool to have, you know, to know, the route, that you had the experience of like, Oh, I'm really intimidated by this thing. It's been sitting there in plain sight. I've been looking at it for years, you know, building my skill set up until I can finally feel like, I'm ready to get on this thing to face my own intimidation. Yeah. And make it happen. It's such a such a cool thing. And also nice to have it at your home crag again. You know, I like reliving those memories now. And then, you know, being able to look up at a chunk of rock and being like, Fuck, I did that. I

Leif Gasch  1:18:37

climbed on it a few years ago, when we just came back when we were living down in Salt Lake, we were up and we were back there. And I was like, Yeah, I want to take a rip up this thing. And I got out. Yeah, I'm in the middle of the roof. And I was like, at first I was like, No way. Did I ever do this? Like, no way. And then like, you know, relearn the beta. I was like, oh my god, I can't believe I forgot how cool and amazing this is. So

Kris Hampton  1:18:57

yeah. Awesome. What's yours? Mine is atomic Stetson. Yeah, maybe one of the worst favorite routes to have. It's, it's angry. It's it's not the coolest looking route. But it's got some really cool movement. Yeah. The description in the old guide was, you know, step off the block and go boom. And, and for me, it felt impossible. The first time I tried it. And for many years after I would come back in the summer, I would train specifically for atomic Stetson, I set a simulator in the gym. That was heinous and hurt. And I you know, I could do the simulator like eight times in a row. And then I got to atomic stats, and I couldn't do the moves. Yeah, you know, it's so strange. It's very bouldery right off the ground, super isolating. And you know, I was I've made no secret of this on the podcast, but I came up climbing in a place where it was like climb 70 feet and then try hard. Yeah. And it was literally step off. And you're in it. Like it's you are live you if

Leif Gasch  1:20:13

you are not fully engaged and move one, like you're not gonna do that thing.

Kris Hampton  1:20:19

Yeah. And I had years where I could like do the bottom boulder problem. No, no issues, but then I couldn't do the top. Yeah. And then years where the top felt really easy, and I couldn't do the bottom. Yeah.

Leif Gasch  1:20:31

Which is funny get like, given for those that don't know the length. I mean, it's what 25 feet?

Kris Hampton  1:20:35

Yeah, maybe, you know? Yeah, like 13 moves or something. Yeah,

Leif Gasch  1:20:40

no, but I mean, there's a distinct difference between the top and the bottom are very distinct. Yeah, yeah.

Kris Hampton  1:20:45

And finally, one year, like I had written it off, I'm like, done, never gonna do that thing, not for me. And I had been bouldering a lot. And I had been doing a lot of wide moves, like really learning to control my body and my attention, while extremely wide, fully extended, both, you know, between my hands as in compression and hands and feet getting fully extended. And I went back to I was up at the wild iris with one of my coaches, Paul, and he got on Cal reggae. And I was like, fuck it, I'll, I'll get on sets and see how it feels. And I'm like, Oh, I could do this thing today. And then just did it. Nice. I was like, whoa, what what the hell just happened? Like the most clear verification that I had become a better climber that I could ever hope to have happened on that route. Yeah. You know, and it was the first time I'd ever entertained doing atomic cow the extension?

Leif Gasch  1:21:49

Well, I had a not a similar experience, but I think an experience somewhat like that. And I think a lot of people do where that route feels. Really hot. You know, and you're like, I don't you know, the first time you take the mono I took it as a mono I know some people stack and and but I mean, either way, you know, in the hand, like if the match your put your hand, foot over your hand, and you're like, you want me to do what? Yeah, if you're just like, no, like, I don't move. I don't bend that way. I'm not strong that way. And it just feels ridiculous. And then you do it. Yeah, I had a similar thing where I was like, I like I'm gonna be on this all summer. And then I was like, boom, done.

Kris Hampton  1:22:26

Yeah. And where did that come from? I had this experience on it when I was trying atomic cow. Shortly after I'd done Stetson, where Sam Elias was here for the festival. He had I think he tried to onside or maybe did onside it. But he had really thought through the bottom. And then he watched me climb the bottom. And I remember hearing him while I was climbing, laugh, and just say, wow. And I felt so strong on it. Yeah, just felt so cool. I also have a very distinct memory of Ronnie Jenkins. on that route. I have video actually somewhere. Oh, I want to see that Ronnie Jenkins. He climbed through the entire route to the last move. Yeah, the move to the chains probably 14 times that day, and refused to do the last move before He clipped. So he was trying like hell to get this massive lock off and clip and he fell every single time. It was hysterical.

Leif Gasch  1:23:29

Like I feel really bad for you, buddy. But that's not 10 tries to go

Kris Hampton  1:23:32

I also watched a video this morning of a dude back flipping off the top of atomic Stetson which like you just said it's like 25 feet tall and I was, uh being a former gymnast and gymnastics coach I was not impressed by the backflip I was impressed however at the let's very lovingly call it stupidity of backflipping off this 25 foot route with a huge boulder and a tree. And he does slam you know through the tree pretty well. Right? But maybe even more ridiculous was a comment on the video. I'm gonna read it here. "Good job. You are really strong. Don't forget to keep your arms straight. That first clip you did it with a bent left arm that burns." Come on, man.

Leif Gasch  1:24:32

Oh my god. Come on. I know what I'm doing. As soon as we're done here. I'm googling All right. Wow.

Kris Hampton  1:24:41

Overlooked classics. A couple of hidden gems any grade?

Leif Gasch  1:24:46

Yeah, um, what's your call? So we were talking about Yeah, one of the I mean, there's a bunch. I really like Easy Ridin'.

Kris Hampton  1:24:57

I don't even know easy ridin. where is it?

Leif Gasch  1:24:59

So So it's on the rode hard wall just to the right of Wind and rattlesnakes, there's actually two routes over there. There's easy ridin and I'm spacing on the name of the 11c, they're both Deirdre Burton's roots are old Deirdre, and Teddy used to own a restaurant here in town. And Easy Ridin's like 10d, I would, I would say, I do

Kris Hampton  1:25:22

know this route. It's like very good. It's the one

Leif Gasch  1:25:25

that you can't ever remember the name. But when you do it, you're like, Oh my God, why do we not warm up on this? Every

Kris Hampton  1:25:29

very good, like tricky. Bottom really cool sequence up top? Yep,

Leif Gasch  1:25:33

like little kind of like little Yeah, yeah, the business is like, right off the ground. And you're like, Whoa, like, 510. What? And then you kind of pull up and then it's just like, you know, it's like giggle pocket.

Kris Hampton  1:25:43

Bring a stick clip for that one. Yes, definitely.

Leif Gasch  1:25:47

Yeah, that one always comes to mind. Again, you know, the Zorro, I said Zorro wall just because I think that's, it's just overlooked, you know, people just don't go there. Not with the frequency that they do to a lot of the other areas. I think that's that's what that's pretty fantastic. Oh, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna put my hand I'm gonna say Gored by Inosine. I think again, that's, that feels it feels like a bit of a gut punch. Yeah, at the grade yet. I really does. But when you do that thing correctly and requires your fingers to be prepared. Yes, yes. But I think that is a really that's a really good Yeah, I mean, you know, everybody goes for everything over on the Hot Tamale wall, since it's all right, right there. But yeah, I really like Gored.

Kris Hampton  1:26:35

Yeah, it's an interesting like very much a hidden in plain sight route. It's right there at the main wall. Yep. Everyone walks right past it.

Leif Gasch  1:26:50

Whenever the almost always goes for two kinds of justice. Yeah, because it's way more approachable,

Kris Hampton  1:26:54

which I was jokingly going to tell was my favorite route.

Leif Gasch  1:26:57

I would have gotten up and walked out of here yeah, don't don't say that, please.

Kris Hampton  1:27:06

Yeah, Gored is a great one. My my single pick for the hidden gem is All Manners of Wonderment.

Leif Gasch  1:27:14

I didn't know if we're including the North Country in this but yeah,

Kris Hampton  1:27:17

yeah, I am now look, it's in the guide book. Okay. Used to be kind of a secret crag now it's in the guide. Paul Piana route, 11d so fun

Leif Gasch  1:27:28

phenomenal so far. I don't I can't think of a day that we go there and I don't do that.

Kris Hampton  1:27:32

Oh, it's so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, love it. Best crag or at least the one with the best crag for a group if you're going out with a group of folks right wide range of grades best place to go

Leif Gasch  1:27:47

I hate to say this because like are we talking like single like single chunks single panels

Kris Hampton  1:27:58

area that's not broken up by

Leif Gasch  1:28:01

I mean it's it's hard to argue anything for me other than like the the Hot Tamale yeah like devil area because literally there are you know if you go from like the right side of the hot tamale wall where you've got Wind River Rose. And and you know, which is like what 5.9 I think and then you know, call it you know, the devil wears spurs you know, prospect like that's your 5.10s you got some moderately Okay, 5.11s in there that are pretty decent,

Kris Hampton  1:28:29

best route at the iris. Two kinds of justice is right there.

Leif Gasch  1:28:33

No, we didn't go that far. We stopped before that. That's why That's why I specifically stopped at the devil. I see what you're doing. No, but then you've got all the hot tamale wall. Yeah, you know, which, you know,

Kris Hampton  1:28:44

I mean, can't go wrong.

Leif Gasch  1:28:46

I did all of those things, all those, you know, hots, my walls, just stacked with 5.12s. And every single one of them is worth doing. And some are better than others. But I mean, they're all really, really excellent. Excellent routes.

Kris Hampton  1:28:59

Yeah, I agree with that choice. 

Leif Gasch  1:29:01

I think that's, you know, if you've got, you know, if you need wide grade range, it's hard to it's hard to, you know, I mean, that what that's, you know, 70 feet 100 feet wide at that point, you know, so it's not like you're having to like, move gear back and forth. And

Kris Hampton  1:29:14

yeah, yeah. And, you know, that also means it's probably going to be one of the busiest spots at the irises.

Leif Gasch  1:29:20

Yeah. It's almost always busy. But there's a reason, you know, it's like, there's a reason the best routes are always glassing and greasy like that's, yeah.

Kris Hampton  1:29:30

All right. Last but not least favorite rest day activity if you're in Lander on a trip.

Leif Gasch  1:29:37

fit my I mean, I think it'd be silly to, to not say this. I love this slide. Yeah, I love the slide. If you want it to be above 100. That was all you have to do at once. That was always my rule. Like if we're gonna go That's my rule. We're here. Now, now that we're locals. I'm like, if it's above 100 degrees, then I'll go up and do the slide. Because I've done it when it's cold, and that's that's not as enjoyable

Kris Hampton  1:29:58

so it can be miserable this year. mountain water what we're talking about here

Leif Gasch  1:30:01

the slide is you drive up Sinks Canyon Park at the big Bruce's parking lot out there you hike up this trail they call it Falls trail. And at the top of the falls trail there is a natural waterslide on the big chunk of granite and you jump it up

Kris Hampton  1:30:17

and it's slippery shaped just like a slide. Yeah drop off into this amazing little pool.

Leif Gasch  1:30:24

Nice little pool, It's it's it's pretty unique. I can't there's not a lot of places in the world. You can do that. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of fun things to do. You know, I think I always tell people the Fourth of July is not to be missed. Yeah, you know, that's but

Kris Hampton  1:30:36

however I don't know if we can call the fourth a rest day activity because most folks need a rest day after

Leif Gasch  1:30:43

truly resting. Yeah. Okay, nevermind. Fourth is off the list.

Kris Hampton  1:30:47

Definitely a must do if you're coming too late. Yeah,

Leif Gasch  1:30:50

no, for rest days. I love this slide. That's a fun day. Get a little hike. See something different get out of town. Yeah,

Kris Hampton  1:30:57

I agree. Also, if you're, you know, especially if you got a couple of rest days. Thermopolis is really amazing. Yeah. Hot Springs, very unique. And, you know, they've built these, you know, pools, swimming pools, and saunas, and all sorts of things on these hotsprings Thermopolis is basically a world's largest natural hotspring Yankees town built on top of a hotspring. Yeah, yeah. So quite cool. Dinosaur museums. There lots of them. And also, you know, while while I definitely have a soft spot for how Lander used to be, there are still quite a few very cool shops on Main Street. And yeah, I mean, old western town type of Main Street. So you know, definitely walking up and down Main Street and stopping in the shops you're interested in is a good rest day.

Leif Gasch  1:31:50

So to plug our little community. Yeah. I mean, Lander is a small ranching town, that's always what it's going to be founded on. Although it's, you know, it's hard to argue with as many you know, people are coming here for climbing and outdoor recreation. It is cool to see the town grow that way, but it's still a small town. And I it, yeah, while the shop mix downtown can be eclectic, depending on the decade or the year

Kris Hampton  1:32:12

and just changing.

Leif Gasch  1:32:13

Yeah, but it's always cool. Because everyone's always psyched when you come in. And you can get a little bit of everything. There's, you know, there's certainly art and food and yeah, a little bit of whatever you want. And it's it's always very welcoming. I always think that's pretty cool. 

Kris Hampton  1:32:27

Yeah, and special shout out to wild Iris Mountain Sports. Started by Todd and Amy. Skinner and some other folks and still there on Main Street, different location, but same amazing people, you can get all the beta you need.

Leif Gasch  1:32:44

Still a true brick and mortar climbing shop too, which those are a dying breed in this day and age.

Kris Hampton  1:32:51

Yep. And if you're looking for the, you know, camping, climbing, rest day activity beta, they're going to have it. We're also going to have a bunch of the those things in our blog post here. So definitely go check that out. The link will be right there in your show notes. I know you mentioned at the top of the episode where we can find you. But let's tell folks again. I'm also going to have those links in the show notes here. Sure. Where can they find you?

Leif Gasch  1:33:19

My website is substr8climbing.com. And that's s-u-b-s-t-r-the numeral eight- climbing.com. And yeah, that's I'm actually going through a website revamp myself. And so hopefully there's more information, updated information on there. But yeah, that's, that's the easiest way to reach me find me hit me up with questions, anything like that.

Kris Hampton  1:33:39

Yeah. And if you're, you know, looking to train for a trip to Wild Iris there, there aren't many people better than Leif to help you on that journey. He certainly knows the area as well or better than anybody else that you're gonna find. 

Leif Gasch  1:33:53

Well, I mean, you haven't done Cowboy King, so... 

Kris Hampton  1:33:55

I know I'm definitely taking myself out of the running here. And you guys know where to find us. We're @powercompanyclimbing on the Instagrams, Facebook's, the Pinterest, so I think we're still there. And the YouTubes for sure. You can look for us all over the Twitter and I would love it if you share this episode on the Twitter to all of the other people twittering or whatever it is they do, but you're not going to find us there, because we don't tweet, we scream like eagles.