In this Board Meeting, rather than make a list, Nate and I discuss our individual top picks for the most common, most egregious, absolute worst tactic we see sport climbers using. If you're making this mistake, consider actively exploring something different in your next session.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:37

What's up everybody? I'm your host Kris Hampton.

Nate Drolet  00:40

And this is Nate Drolet.

Kris Hampton  00:41

And together we form Tiger and Steve Williams.

Nate Drolet  00:48

Wow........ I, man. It's not my day.

Kris Hampton  00:55

Hahaha. When was your day?

Nate Drolet  00:57

Hahaha.Oh man, I...uhh...oh, we went back through these. Hold on. I got one. I got a good one not too long ago. Um, by not too long, it was like three years ago, but I don't remember.

Kris Hampton  01:07

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  01:07

So it's been, it's been a while since I've had a day.

Kris Hampton  01:11

Steve Williams was Tiger Woods' caddy through much of his reign as the top golfer in the world. At the time, they were pretty good on the links.

Nate Drolet  01:23

Hmmm.

Kris Hampton  01:24

See what I did there? 

Nate Drolet  01:26

Okay. Okay.

Kris Hampton  01:26

Yeah, yeah. I'm mastering this shit. 

Nate Drolet  01:29

Haha.

Kris Hampton  01:31

And that's the duo I chose today, because we're talking about our top pet peeve, biggest tactical errors we see made in sport climbing. And to be fair, I don't go sport climbing anymore, so I don't see any errors being made in sport climbing, except for the people who are going sport climbing. That's not entirely true, but I'm gonna say it regardless. And my biggest tactical error is people not following through with the logical links. So I've fallen into this trap myself a number of times. I've been kind of wooed into thinking that I'm in send position when I'm not. Even when I thought I was this, like tactical master. I had done all the links, you know. I've been wooed into that. And then something clicks and I'm like, "Oh, here's this link I didn't make." I make the link and then I send. 

Nate Drolet  02:36

Yeah

Kris Hampton  02:37

That's happened to me a number of times. And I see it regularly, especially from actually probably more from like the 5.12 level sport climber is where I start seeing the biggest tactical errors. I feel like the the sport climbers below that are making enough progress oftentimes, that they, they can work through those tactical errors by getting better. But once people hit that 5.12 level, tactics start to matter a lot and it's kind of at the time where people are really start to dig into their first projects, you know, and that's where I see it manifesting.

Nate Drolet  03:25

Okay. Let's go ahead and take a step back. When you say logical links, how would you define that?

Kris Hampton  03:33

Essentially, I think...when you're new to climbing, and you look at a route, it looks like this one big thing, right? You start at the bottom, you go to the top, that's the rule. 

Nate Drolet  03:46

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  03:47

And as you get a little more experienced, you start to be able to break the routes down into smaller sections. You know, call them whatever you want, break them down in terms of boulder problem grades, or small route grades or whatever you want. But there are these kind of logical checkpoints, the smaller little sections of climbing within this big route. And actually, then, as you get more experienced and dig into it more, pay attention to it more, those links can really or those sections can start to overlap into new sections. So it might be these three sections separated by two good rests, you know. 

Nate Drolet  04:35

Okay. 

Kris Hampton  04:36

Then you can go oh, well, there's one from the bottom to the second rest. There's one from the first rest all the way to the top. There's, there's one from the third hard move to the second rest, you know, and then there are all these links, you can start seeing that start to make sense for you. And for me, the next logical link is just the one that's a little harder, or the one that you haven't done yet, whichever comes first. If you feel like you've done the links, then look for a harder link. It's a it's a tricky game, right? Because we're always, unlike bouldering, we're always starting from the bottom of a sport climb.

Nate Drolet  05:20

 Yeah. Oh, but are you? 

Kris Hampton  05:23

Well, I mean, most of the time, most of us are standing on the ground when we start a sport climb. That doesn't mean however, that we have to climb up to the place we want to start from, doesn't mean we have to redpoint up to the place we want to start from. So it gets a little trickier when people pull on, start climbing, feel good and then they start thinking in their head, like, "I should just go for it. Just go for it."

Nate Drolet  05:54

Ohhh.

Kris Hampton  05:54

 You know, this happens all the time, especially when it's like you're close. You've...there's one or two links left you could do, but I'm feeling good. Nah, I'm just gonna go for it.

Nate Drolet  06:06

I'll just I'll just go and see see what happens and I'll work, I'll workout the links after I fall.

Kris Hampton  06:11

Yeah

Nate Drolet  06:11

When you're flamed. Ugh

Kris Hampton  06:13

Yeah, it's a dangerous place to be and 

Nate Drolet  06:16

What a trap. 

Kris Hampton  06:17

And those last links to do are very often nearly as hard as doing the whole route.

Nate Drolet  06:24

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  06:25

Which makes it even tougher to convince yourself to, you know, air quotes here, "waste" that energy that it's going to take to do that link.

Nate Drolet  06:36

Yeah, that's, that's a really big one. Yeah, being like, "Oh, I'll just give it a redpoint go, fall, and then I'll worry about links after"

Kris Hampton  06:43

Yeah

Nate Drolet  06:43

Because then you're tired. You've, you know, you've essentially also reduced the amount of times you can try that route that day. Because sometimes going up and doing links, you can save a lot of energy. You know, if you say I want to try and link bolt, let's say three to seven, you can go up bolt to bolt, go to one, go to two, go to three, taking at each, saving energy, gun for the three to seven and then you can come down from there, if you you know, work it out, do whatever you need. But if you go straight from the ground and try and gun for it all the way from the ground, let's say you fall at five, because you're tired or maybe there was a missed sequence that you didn't figure out yet. Suddenly, you're like, a little bit pumped, you're not gonna be able to work the sequence out as well. You know, will...could you have done it from three? You don't even know anymore like, because you tried it from one.You know, there's all these things like you didn't answer any questions. You got greedy, and it kind of bit you in the ass. 

Kris Hampton  07:41

Do you think, you know, this comes off of your question to me about "What are logical links?", do you think that it's sort of a self selecting thing? In that, when you're a new climber, you don't see the links at all. As you get a little better, you can start to see the links and the next logical link is the next one you can see, right? 

Nate Drolet  08:06

Okay, I see where you're going with this. 

Kris Hampton  08:07

And as you get better and better, ideally, and I think a little bit whether you want it to or not, you start to be able to see the different links that need to be made, sort of parallel to your abilities. You start to be able to see those things, you know, parallel to the the grade or level that you're climbing at. I'm curious, I'm not sure if because there's not a really specific way to say, "Here is what the links are" on any given, you know, as a general rule across all sport routes. Do you think it's somewhat of a self selecting thing, what the next link is?

Nate Drolet  08:56

I do think that as you become more skilled, you'll see different links. 

Kris Hampton  09:01

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  09:03

Yeah. And but that said, I, I do think it's important to reach out and talk with other people about, especially people who have done the climb that you want to do, and ask and just pay attention to what people are saying. Like if everyone's falling at the same spot, anytime...like there's a route in the Red. What is it called? True Love. 

Kris Hampton  09:25

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  09:26

One of those things where everyone seems to punt above the crux.

Kris Hampton  09:29

 Right. Right. 

Nate Drolet  09:30

You know, if everyone's falling there,is that punting?

Kris Hampton  09:33

Exactly

Nate Drolet  09:33

Like or is it just

Kris Hampton  09:34

There might be a chapter in my book about this. 

Nate Drolet  09:36

Yeah, like, it's like, oh, literally every person I've ever talked to, who didn't onsight the route, fell after the crux.

Kris Hampton  09:46

Right.

Nate Drolet  09:47

 And the breakdown of this route, generally speaking, is supposed to be like 12+, V8ish, kind of funky, to air quotes, "10d". 

Kris Hampton  09:57

Is that what people say? Haha.

Nate Drolet  09:59

Oh, people have told me this.

Nate Drolet  10:00

 Yeah, I went up it and I was like, "Man, I don't know if I fall on 10d this much. But this feels more like V5 to me." 

Kris Hampton  10:00

Hahaha.

Kris Hampton  10:08

Hahaha. Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  10:09

And it was funny because I went and talked with a buddy about it afterwards, Daniel Brechner, and he was like, yeah, he's like, "Everyone's kind of full of shit, huh?". Because he's like, "You ever noticed how literally everyone falls in that 5.10 section after the V8?". I'm like, "Yeah". He's like, "No, I think it's hard" and I was like, "Okay, cool". So that's a good example of paying attention to other people. And maybe it did feel like V10 tight after or 5.10 right after climbing V8. But it's hard, and everyone falls there, so that is a necessary link, that clearly a lot of advanced climbers oversaw. Like to them, they're like, "Oh, it's fine. It's whatever." And it's hard to also link a very succinct crux like that into the top, when there's not much lead in climbing. So you're like, "Well, if I could just do the V8 to the top, I might as well do it from the ground."

Kris Hampton  10:55

 Right. 

Nate Drolet  10:57

You know, there's a theme here. But yeah, I do think you get better at looking at links. And I think it's really important to watch other people too. There are a lot of, I'm always impressed by great sport climbers, because they're not afraid to go for maybe what to me seems unintuitive for links. Like they're fine saying, "Hey, I'm going to go from three moves into the rock climb."

Kris Hampton  11:22

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  11:22

Like, I could reach up and slap their chalk bag, as as their belayer, from where they're pulling on, and they're gonna try and gun from their to the top. 

Kris Hampton  11:31

Yeah, totally.

Nate Drolet  11:32

I'm like, "That seems weird. Just do the start." But they know themselves and they've seen the process well enough. It's like, "Well, yeah, you, I guess you climb 5.15 and I don't.", so seeing that I think helps. You know, it's one of those things, your intuition builds with time, but always look out and watch what better climbers do.

Kris Hampton  11:49

Yeah, and I think this is something that we've talked about on a lot of episodes in the past. But this is going to fundamentally look a little different than, than my gripe with bouldering, you know, that you've already heard, in that, like I mentioned, you're standing on the ground most attempts, and you can't just reach past the crux to start. You know, you can't get a power spot through the crux move. But you can exercise things like going bolt bolt, like you mentioned, you can climb this easy section, or climb this first link, and then go indirect, and sit there for 15 minutes and, you know, then try the next link. So you can do all of these, you can use all of these tactics to help you, as long as you go in with a plan to begin with. You know, talk to your belayer about it. Have them not let you off the hook. You know, if your goal, if your goal is to, "I want to go from bolt six to the chains, because I haven't done that link yet" and you get to bolt six, and you're like, "I'm feeling good. I'm going for it", your belayer should be like, "No, if you make one more move, I'm pulling you off this rock climb."

Nate Drolet  13:09

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  13:09

You know, because chances are you're going to fall at bolt eight, or, you know, whatever and then you've blown your attempt to make that link, exactly the scenario you were talking about. So have that belayer hold you to it. I think that's really important. And I've drawn some diagrams for you know, this one and the bouldering episode that kind of show how this might look in practice over several sessions of bolt to bolting or doing shorter sections, lowering down and doing a different link. Play around with it. I think that's the the best way to go about it. And I think it's a lot like the bouldering episode where if you're falling in the same spot over and over and over, it's probably a good idea to start looking for some big link you haven't done, you know. The obvious ones we've talked about in our in tactics episodes in the past, but you know, how low have you gotten to the chains from?

Nate Drolet  14:12

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  14:12

And how high have you gotten from the ground? Those are the two big ones. And if in an ideal world, if you can just keep making a new high point and a new low point, eventually, you know, you're one bolt difference and, and you can just do the thing. That's not how it always breaks down and you have to get a little more creative and like you said, watch how other climbers are approaching the route.

Nate Drolet  14:36

Yeah, and first, I just think those are all like great points. There's one thing I would add that I don't think is used often enough, but you can also do reps on links.

Kris Hampton  14:51

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  14:51

Like this is what I used to do back in the Red and I used to think redpoint cruxes were my superpower. But really it's just because I don't know, I realized early on, like, if you go to the anchors and going to the, let's say the last two bolts are the redpoint crux. So you have a hard boulder down low and then everyone falls in the last two bolts. I would just do the last two bolts on toprope three times every time I went to anchors. 

Kris Hampton  15:16

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  15:16

So every time I went up the route, I would do that last section a total of four times. And I never fell on redpoint cruxes. 

Kris Hampton  15:23

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  15:23

And I was like, "Oh, apparently I just, you know, I have a mind of steel and all this", but really, it's just, I don't know, I just did it more.

Kris Hampton  15:31

Yeah, and I think, you know, in a lot of cases, it's really important to not conserve all your energy. Like at the end of a session, do that big link that you've already done. Do it tired. You know, get up there. It's the end of your session, your power is drained, try the big link anyway. Learn to fight through it. You know, it might show you a new a new area that you didn't think to to include that that's going to be troublesome for you when you are tired coming from the ground.

Nate Drolet  16:06

Yes. Yeah. Fatigue is a good teacher.

Kris Hampton  16:10

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  16:10

Like, especially in easier climbing terrain. When you... I mean, yeah, that's why it works so well for redpoint cruxes.

Kris Hampton  16:17

Yep. And if you're a good intuitive climber, you might find some rests that you've never found, because now all of a sudden, you're forced into this section where you're a little tired, and you're having to get into this big drop knee you never saw before to shake out or whatever. 

Nate Drolet  16:34

Yeah

Kris Hampton  16:35

Super important to play with all those links. What's yours?

Nate Drolet  16:39

All right, mine uh, we've attempted to find a name for this. We've tried about seven different things. 

Kris Hampton  16:46

Haha.

Nate Drolet  16:47

The closest I think we've got is "method of approach". So what I mean by this is, how many different ways do you try rock climbs? This is onsighting, flashing, second go sends, trying to send it in a day, you know, maybe trying to send it in, in three to five sessions? Is this a season long project? All of these different things.

Kris Hampton  17:10

Right.

Nate Drolet  17:11

What most people end up doing is they settle into one to two. 

Kris Hampton  17:14

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  17:15

You know, maybe they've got their...like a lot of people like a second go send and maybe a project. And I think I think their second go sends tend to be a little bit on the comfier side.

Kris Hampton  17:28

Totally. 

Nate Drolet  17:29

You know, it's more like, "Oh, I'm gonna project this 13c, but I'm gonna second go this 12a"

Kris Hampton  17:37

Right. Something you maybe could have onsighted.

Nate Drolet  17:40

Yes. I know a lot of amazing projectors, who can see things through for seasons, man who climb up to 13+, who are terrified of trying to onsight 11+ rock climbing.

Kris Hampton  17:52

Right

Nate Drolet  17:53

Like, yeah, they're just like, "Oh, well that might blow my day." It's like, well, it shouldn't.

Kris Hampton  17:57

Mmm hmm.

Nate Drolet  17:58

 Like you...and yeah, I mean, it ...to me, it's such a fun opportunity for growth too. Like, I remember when I was breaking into 5.12 and I was like, okay, well, if I want, like, there's this general rule of thumb that works shockingly well in rock climbing, that is, whatever you onsight, like your onsite grade and your hard redpoint project grade should be one number grade apart. 

Kris Hampton  18:22

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  18:23

It works really well. It's just

Kris Hampton  18:25

It shocks me regularly how well it works. 

Kris Hampton  18:28

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  18:28

Yeah, like it, it's just kind of held true. So let's say if you want to consistently climb 12a, in my mind, I was like, "Well, if I can consistently onsight 11a, then that's the one number gap. That'll work." And same thing like when I went to go to 12b, I was like, well, let's spend some time trying to you know, first it was like, "I want to flash an 11b." So I'd have you know, my friend tell me whatever the beta was, and then it's like, "Okay, let's onsight it" and then, you know, then it's like, "Okay, like, in my mind, I can now climb 12b". But I'd also mix in, like, my favorite way to do it, I would start with onsighting, because that was a good way just to have fun. See a lot of climbs, you do more pitches, you do more new things. You're seeing a lot more new movement, new styles, stuff like that. And then once I would get tired of that, I'd be like, "Well, I want to try something harder." So maybe then it's a second go sends. You're a little more tactical. And then you do that abd you're like, "Oh, cool. I've leveled up a little bit from that onsighting, but I want something harder."  So then it's, "Okay, how hard can I climb something in a day?"

Nate Drolet  18:34

And then, you know, it's like, "Oh, well, suddenly, like, I'm climbing, you know, 12- in a day. Cool. Well, let's level that up."  And then you just keep going. And for me, you keep going until, "Okay, I've got a hard project. I've now tried this. I sent it after, let's say, six days of work, seven days of work." Then for me, it's like well, maybe I'll pick another one or I'm going to go back to onsighting or I'll just mix these other days in and it keeps things fresh. I mean, you can learn so much from these different styles. 

Kris Hampton  20:02

Yeah

Nate Drolet  20:03

These different methods of approach. I'm going to keep saying it and hoping that sticks, because I still don't like the phrase, but we'll find something. 

Kris Hampton  20:09

Yeah. If you if you have a better word for this, post it on the Instagram post about this, about this episode.

Nate Drolet  20:17

But this is what I see people drop the ball on a lot and they find

Kris Hampton  20:20

Yeah

Nate Drolet  20:21

They find their comfort zone. Maybe that's going out and just day cragging. They onsight or do an easy second go send or maybe they only mega-project. But it's rare that you see people really cover all the bases who don't also climb really well.

Kris Hampton  20:36

Yeah, it's, it's really interesting to how much this can like, how it can become dogma for people. I hear so many people like, totally down projecting, because for whatever reason, they've decided that onsighting or doing things second or third try is like the ultimate way to engage with rock climbing. And they're just like, "Projecting is stupid. I don't want to spend that much time on a route. It has nothing to teach me. I just do things quickly." You know, not true at all. It has a lot to teach you. And then I see projecters, like you said, really scared to try and onsight something much easiernand just never engage with it. I had a method that worked for me well, up to a certain point, that I would reward myself for onsighting things with projects. Where if I onsighted 12a, that meant that I could have a 12d project. You know, it was always three, three letter grades was the span for me at the time. And once I onsighted two 12as, I could have two 12d projects. Once I onsighted three 12as,  12d was open for me. 

Kris Hampton  21:59

And I could I could try as many as I wanted. Sample whatever I wanted. And that worked for me in the Red and in climbing in the New a bit, up to about onsighting 12c or maybe 12d. And then I was sort of running out of things to try because I had overlapped where I started, you know. And then I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna start on these bigger projects, the really hard things for me and I'm going to have these mini projects." So I found ways to interact with a lot of them. Failed onsight attempts would essentially, you know, not technically, I couldn't log it on my 8a this way, but it would essentially become a second go send some other day down the road. Or I would go back up the route with the purpose of trying to send it next try.

Nate Drolet  21:59

Oooh

Nate Drolet  22:54

Yeah, so technically you'd send it third go.

Kris Hampton  22:57

Exactly. Yeah, I would be exercising it like a second go send and and then that led into the fun of "Oh, let's try some harder second go sends", you know.

Nate Drolet  23:07

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  23:09

Almost always while also trying some big major project. But I really like playing at the ends of that spectrum of "If I'm projecting, I also want to be onsighting" you know? 

Nate Drolet  23:22

Yeah

Kris Hampton  23:22

It just feels good to me.

Nate Drolet  23:24

It keeps you sharp. 

Kris Hampton  23:25

It does

Nate Drolet  23:26

Man I love it. If I could only pick one...ooh, question. If you could only pick one........ "method of approach"

Kris Hampton  23:35

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  23:37

What would it be?

Kris Hampton  23:38

Bouldering. No, I'm just kidding.

Nate Drolet  23:40

 Get out of here. Offwidth.

Kris Hampton  23:41

Haha. If I can only pick one method of approaching sport climbs, it would probably be, for me, mini projecting.

Nate Drolet  23:52

That's a good one. So fun.

Kris Hampton  23:55

 Yeah. I think that would be it for me.

Nate Drolet  23:58

What would your ancillary one be? Let's say you spend 60% there and you get 30% on another?

Kris Hampton  24:06

Hmmm. I do really love onsighting. If I would never run out of routes to try and onsight, it would be onsight.

Nate Drolet  24:14

Oh yeah. That's it that's exactly what I was thinking in my head. Man, I think I might actually do the same. Like onsighting for me is just as fun as rock climbing gets.

Kris Hampton  24:25

It's so fun. So fun to be able to switch into that mode where you're just going for it. You've you've gotten no doubt in your mind that the next hold is good, that you're doing the thing. You're just executing these like visions that you're having as you're doing it. It's it's so much fun.

Nate Drolet  24:44

Yeah. But yeah, mini projecting is fun. Oh, I guess I'll... yeah, I think I'd probably do the same. You know, let's say mini project being three to five day project and then onsighting, with the caveat that I never run out of onsights.

Kris Hampton  25:00

 Yeah. Why would you choose mini projecting over like mega projects?

Nate Drolet  25:06

I've never really enjoyed mega projecting. It...and I and I feel like I keep as long as I do other things, I keep progressing with mini projects. And maybe it's I've just never found the right balance with big mega projects but yeah, I've I've just never really loved them. Like I've seen things through and I've had big mega projects, but I don't know. I'm just a glutton for more rock climbing. It's probably why I like onsighting.

Kris Hampton  25:34

Yeah, same. I, I've done my time with a few mega projects and I'm glad I've done my time with them. But I don't think I would be willing to invest that same amount of time and energy into into the same sport climbs, partially because it requires other people to be going and doing that thing with you and that's a hard sell for a mega project. You know, unless you have other people projecting at that same crag.

Nate Drolet  26:08

Yeah. You know, I think I've also realized, like when I was younger, I guess I never thought...I don't know, I'd never thought there would be a limit on how many places I would be able to like, go see and try, routes I'd try. 

Kris Hampton  26:23

Sure. 

Nate Drolet  26:24

And soo I was fine just being like, "Oh, yeah, like, I'll just spend the whole season trying this", or, yeah, I always had this mentality of "I'll get back to it." And I'm starting to realize, you know, if I sit down and plan out my year, like, "Oh, here's the trips I can take",  I'm like, man, I want, like, I don't have infinite time. Like so I think that also is something that appeals to me, why mini projecting appeals more is, you know, I have the ability to travel some.

Kris Hampton  26:52

 Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  26:52

And I would much rather go see more things and, you know, still get to sink my teeth into something hard. And that's going to keep me up at night, but not so much that it's going to keep me away from getting the experience new places or new routes.

Nate Drolet  27:07

Yeah, it, you know, and that's something that really blows me away about these high level climbers is, you know, Ondra will go onsight a 14b and a 13d as part of his warm up to go try a high level project. 

Kris Hampton  27:07

Yeah. And I think if we look at the pros, you know, the best sport climbers, we look at Ondra and Siegrist say, they are very well versed at both onsighting and projecting at several different lengths. Yeah, you know, Ondra will dig into major projects that are game changing that, you know, break through some ceiling. And then he'll also do 15c in four tries, you know.

Kris Hampton  27:52

Right, right

Nate Drolet  27:53

Man, I got, you know, I know people who are like trying to send their first 12d, and they're like, "Well, I don't want to try and onsight that 11a, it might ruin my day"

Kris Hampton  28:01

Right

Nate Drolet  28:01

It's like, no. No, like, if it's ruining your day, we need to get better at your confidence while onsighting, and just your confidence in general while climbing, you know. Not even just on sighting, like this isn't gonna ruin anything. I remember Sasha DiGiulian, years ago, was climbing in Spain and she had a day where, just a single day, I want to say she onsighted like two 13cs, sent a 14b and then onsighted a 13d and redpointed a 13b after.

Kris Hampton  28:35

Right.

Nate Drolet  28:35

 And I was like, "Who even tries that?"

Kris Hampton  28:38

Right.

Kris Hampton  28:38

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  28:38

 Who? Like you, let's take a number off of all of those and put me in the her shoes. I'm not trying that many things.

Nate Drolet  28:40

Like I don't even remember what it was, but uh, something just absurd like that. Like, what you onsighted hard, then you went to your project, and you did your project, and then you like, did a second project and then you went and onsighted afterwards because you that wasn't enough? 

Kris Hampton  29:01

Right

Nate Drolet  29:01

Like, and then you second go sent another like, I mean, a moderate 8a afterwards. But yeah,

Kris Hampton  29:06

It's not a coincidence that these people are the best climbers and, and they're engaging in things this way. Yeah, you know, if you're, if you're a person who's stuck in "I only onsight" or "I only project" you know, maybe look around and see that all of the best climbers are, are making all of the different types of approaches.

Nate Drolet  29:29

Yeah, and look outside of your close community too. Like, you know, good example, I went to Rifle, the first time I ever went, I...uh...it was actually eight years ago. I hurt a finger here, pulling on pockets, went to Rifle and found I could climb like 5.12 without much pain and there weren't pockets there, so it was helpful. And I think I climbed like 35 5.12s. I was there for just a couple of weeks. But I was just like, "I'm gonna try and onsight 5.12 here", like really went after it. And if not, I'm going to do it in a few goes and I want to climb as much as possible, really learn this style. And it blew me away, at the end of my trip, I was talking with some locals who, you know, had been climbing there 10+ years, like some much longer, and they're asking me what I was climbing on. And for some of them, I had climbed more 5.12s in my first trip, in like three weeks, than they had climbed. You know, they had climbed a few when they first were 5.12 climbers, and then they immediately jumped to projecting 5.13. 

Kris Hampton  30:29

Right.

Nate Drolet  30:30

But they were like, "Oh, I haven't done any of those", like

Nate Drolet  30:32

And it, it blew me away. I was like, "Well, you're surrounded by amazing climbs. Do all of them." Like, I know people here project, but there's so much to do and learn from.

Kris Hampton  30:32

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  30:44

Yeah, this type of approach, where you're mixing it up like this, you know, there's a there's a push toward, "Don't pay attention to building a pyramid" or whatever. This type of approach is going to make you a better climber and it's going to just add to your pyramid, you know. No, we don't have to build a pyramid, brick by brick, perfectly. But ultimately, if you're climbing 13a or whatever, don't you want to have climbed 12d and 12c and 12c? You know, you don't have to do them all in order, but it doesn't mean you can't go back and add in the ones below that you skipped over or didn't do and why would you not want to do more rock climbs? I don't, I don't quite understand the concept.

Nate Drolet  31:30

Rock climbing is fun. Do it all. Like, and that's like, oh, that's half the reason I would say that I have this as my biggest mistake. Because man, it's fun. Like, what a way to get to experience rock climbing. And yeah, I know people say that season multi season long projects where you measure not in goes, but in the number of ropes that you use to send it. I'm sure that's fun for some people. 

Kris Hampton  31:54

Yeah

Nate Drolet  31:54

But, man, this is really cool.

Kris Hampton  31:56

Yeah, I'll also add this in. We love to, and you and I just talked about this on a patron Board Meeting, we love to look at the outliers and use them as the examples, you know, or excuses to not engage with a thing in a certain way. And I can just hear all of the onsighter and all of the people against projecting, being like, "Well, Alex Megos didn't have big projects, you know, until he was climbing 15c"

Nate Drolet  32:12

Good point.

Kris Hampton  32:27

 Well, you're not climbing 15c, but you have been stuck at 13a for a long time. Or, you know, 12a, or whatever you're at, you've been stuck there a long time. You're not Alex Megos. And Alex Megos had the benefit of growing up in an area that had thousandss of rock climbs 5.14 and harder. So as he's approaching his upper grades, he's got his pick of anything. You know, most of us don't have that luxury. You know, we've got a few routes that are harder for us, that make the next logical step for us. So always just onsighting, always just doing mini projects, you're gonna run out of things pretty quickly. He had the benefit of not having to project because there were always things at the level he was at and he could make, you know, relatively slow progress through the grades. 

Nate Drolet  33:29

Yeah. Yeah, I forget what it was. We looked. Was it 8c and harder? There were like 600+.

Kris Hampton  33:37

Yeah, some some absurd number.

Nate Drolet  33:40

 Yeah, whatever it was, I can't remember. But insane. Maybe it was 8b, maybe that was 13d and up was 600. 

Kris Hampton  33:47

Maybe that was it

Nate Drolet  33:48

 Yeah, I think that might have been it. But whatever it was, it was like, you know, coming from the Red, where when I started climbing there, there were two 13ds. One I'd never seen chalk on.

Kris Hampton  33:58

 Right. Exactly. 

Nate Drolet  33:59

Yeah, I think he's, I think he actually sent his first 9a in like, four tries or something. 

Kris Hampton  34:04

Right

Nate Drolet  34:04

14d.

Kris Hampton  34:05

 Right. 

Nate Drolet  34:05

But it's because he was able to climb so many of these other things first

Kris Hampton  34:11

Right

Nate Drolet  34:11

And yeah, like, if you have the opportunity, do it. But I will say this, you know, let's draw this back around. When he did have to start projecting, he spent years really getting flustered and having like, you know, a lot of issues with it. And I thought it was actually really cool that he was so public about it.

Kris Hampton  34:29

Same 

Nate Drolet  34:29

But he was like,"Man, I never got shut down before. Like, I got to do everything so quick that now that I'm actually projecting, this is frustrating. I get really upset. Like, this is a hard process for me." You know, both him and his coaches have talked about it. So yeah, I mean, he's obviously an outlier at an elite level, but it came around to him either way, like not knowing how to project.

Kris Hampton  34:54

Yeah, totally. All right. Any more from you on there?

Nate Drolet  35:02

No. No, just just do these things. Do links and have lots of "methods of approach"

Kris Hampton  35:09

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  35:10

 For your climbing days,

Kris Hampton  35:11

We'll put that in all caps in the Instagram post. 

Nate Drolet  35:14

Yes. 

Kris Hampton  35:15

And I will link right there in the show notes in your pocket supercomputer back to an episode with Alex Megos on the podcast. And Ken Etzel, who made the film "Rotpunkt". We talked a little about Alex's challenges with feeling like he was enough, you know, by trying this thing that was really hard for him and not sending quickly. I think it's really important to try all of these different methods of approach because you know, it just prepares you for being a better overall climber, later down the road. So check out that. You can find us at powercompanyclimbing.com You can find us @PowerCompanyClimbing on the Instagrams, Facebooks, Pinterest, the YouTubes and you can look for us on Twitter. We're not going to be there because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.