In this episode Nate and I sit down to try and parse out a topic that is FAR too big for one episode - bouldering tactics. We intended for this to be a 2-parter, but it ended up being over 3 hours total, so we're making it a 3 part series instead. 

We do our best to deconstruct the methods of approaching a boulder depending on several variables - intended length of the project, if you’re on a trip, etc. Every situation is different, so there is no absolute BEST tactical approach for any boulder - but there are some general things to keep in mind.

Looking for a way to stay organized and efficient while bouldering, and reduce the excuses that happen when you aren’t prepared? Check out our new Crag Kit and Boulder Bag!  

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTS:

PART 1 (Ep. 182):

Nate Drolet  00:31

What's up everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton.

Nate Drolet  00:34

And this is Nate Drolet.

Kris Hampton  00:36

And together we form Hawkeye Pierce and BJ Honeycutt.

Nate Drolet  00:44

I've got nothing.

Kris Hampton  00:45

Really?

Nate Drolet  00:46

 Hawkeye Pierce and BJ Honeycutt?

Kris Hampton  00:48

I was trying to throw you an easy one.

Nate Drolet  00:51

Naw... I'm looking around at your vinyls right now. I've got nothing.

Kris Hampton  00:57

Hahaha. You won't find it in the vinyl. 

Nate Drolet  00:58

Oh

Kris Hampton  00:59

They were

Nate Drolet  01:00

Is that Charlie Brown Christmas, though?

Kris Hampton  01:02

Yes, it is.

Nate Drolet  01:02

Nice.

Kris Hampton  01:03

There's some great samples on there. 

Nate Drolet  01:04

Haha

Kris Hampton  01:06

Great piano samples

Nate Drolet  01:07

Solid. 

Kris Hampton  01:10

They were the main characters..or two of the main characters on M.A.S.H. 

Nate Drolet  01:15

Okay. 

Kris Hampton  01:18

Which I assume was a little bit of a tactical place and that's what we're talking about, so

Nate Drolet  01:24

Ah I see what you did there.

Kris Hampton  01:25

 Yeah, I'm trying to try to make my duos fit the themes more and more often here, in case you haven't realized, and you want to stop missing duos at any given time

Nate Drolet  01:37

Oh, no, I have no intention of that.

Kris Hampton  01:38

Haha. So we've done a bunch of talking about sport climbing tactics on episodes. And one of our most requested episodes is boulder projecting tactics. 

Nate Drolet  01:58

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  01:59

And almost every time I've gotten this message, I've had to like, look back through the podcasts like, "Really? We haven't done this?"

Nate Drolet  02:08

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  02:09

Because it seems so obvious that we would have. You know, we both spent a large amount of time bouldering the last few years. 

Nate Drolet  02:15

Yeah, it's wonderful. 

Kris Hampton  02:17

For some reason this hasn't come up. So today, that's what we're talking about: boulder projecting tactics. And the list that we came up with is daunting. It's massive, so we've decided to split this into two conversations. One about all about climbing, like the tactics that happen while you're climbing, while you're working on the boulder, from choosing a boulder to send attempts and beyond. The other is more gear, things that you want to consider having available...errr.......or how would you explain some of the other tactics?

Nate Drolet  03:04

Um, the things that aren't....

Kris Hampton  03:07

I'm using a lot of air quotes over here. You guys can't see. 

Nate Drolet  03:10

Yeah. Uh, all the things that can help you send harder that aren't specifically climbing.

Kris Hampton  03:16

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  03:17

But even that doesn't do a great job, so you'll just have to listen to that one, too.

Kris Hampton  03:22

Yep. So actually, this is kind of a question we've heard several times: how to choose a project. And when we're talking project here, we're talking something really hard for you. So not something you might send in three tries or, or even in one session. This is a project that's going to be really hard for you. 

Nate Drolet  03:49

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  03:49

 How do you choose a boulder project?

Nate Drolet  03:56

Man, there's a lot of ways to go about it. So I guess it depends what level I'm looking for. To me, I think with boulders, like a nice, shorter term, project length is like three to five sessions. Much over five and that, you know, especially depending how often you can get to something, you know, if this is an outdoor climb, and if you can only get there one day a week, five, like five sessions, that's a month.

Kris Hampton  04:21

Right

Nate Drolet  04:21

 So, five might not sound like much when you compare it to trying something in the gym. But if it's outdoors, and it's that situation, like a month is a longtime. That's a bulk of your season. So I'll typically start with difficulty. You know, am I just looking to... am I looking to climb something of a similar level I've done before and it's like, "Oh, this looks like a cool challenge. I'd like to do that. Maybe it's a little different from what I've done. And I think I can do it maybe in a few days." Or maybe it's "Hey, I want to try this. I think it's really hard. You know, so I'm going to search for that." So I'll typically start With what is in the area I'm going to be in. So let's say if I'm going to be around Chattanooga for a winter, then, or like, when that was where I was living, then I would say, okay, these are this, like, I climb at Little Rock City a lot. It's very close to me, so that's maybe where I'm going to have longer term projects. Where places like Horse Pens are further, that's gonna be shorter term projects, and kind of pick as far...pick in that way so that I at least guarantee myself more time. So start with that, with location, and then move on to "Man, what gets me excited?"

Kris Hampton  05:37

Yep

Nate Drolet  05:37

 You know, and that for me, that's a really big one. Like, what am I psyched on? You know, I'll pick a handful, and kind of whittle down from there to "Okay, what's realistic? What can I find partners for?" For me, that last one's really big. Like, I've gone to try boulders, like Western Gold is a good example. I didn't really have many plans to go try it, but I had a bunch of friends that I liked climbing with, who were like, "Hey, we're all gonna go out. We're gonna have a ton of pads. You want to come out?" And I was like, "Fuck, yeah, no question."

Kris Hampton  06:08

 Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  06:09

So immediately that jumped on to the front of the project list. 

Kris Hampton  06:12

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  06:14

So yeah, those are kind of big decisions for me. I also like will pick style. Typically, I like to choose styles for the season. So maybe one season I want to focus on crimping, or being more powerful. So yeah, those are some of my big considerations. What about you?

Kris Hampton  06:34

Yeah, I mean, I think you've covered it pretty well there. I think ultimately, what it comes down to, for me ,is how much do I want to invest in this project? So maybe even more than, you know, difficulty in terms of grade, I decide how much do I want to invest? And that for me, that includes the the driving there. You know, is it an area that's further away from me? How many days, weekends, whatever? Am I going to be able to get there? Is it a style that I'm good at or not? And if it's a style that I'm good at, is it at a grade that I think I can do quickly? If it's a style, I'm bad at. you know, I just weigh the pros and cons and figure out how much I'm willing to invest in that project. And really, that's, you know, that, on top of what you said, is how I choose it, and very much so it comes down to "What am I psyched to do?". You know, if I see a boulder I hadn't seen before, it might very well jump near the top of the list pretty damn quickly, if it gets me really psyched.

Nate Drolet  07:59

Yeah, and you know, since this is a tactics pod... tactics episode, we're going to talk a lot of nuts and bolts. We're probably gonna have a lot of little interjections. Ummm, two other things I just thought of for picking projects. One is friends' recommendations. 

Kris Hampton  08:13

Yeah, totally. 

Nate Drolet  08:14

And especially like, you know, there are enough guys I've climbed with and enough people who've climbed with me who, if they tell me, "Hey, you need to go check out that boulder.", like, I will trust their input. And I'm like, "Cool. I'm on it. " 

Kris Hampton  08:28

Yeah

Nate Drolet  08:28

So that'll jump things to the top of the list. And then something else I do whenever I'm in like the thick of a bouldering season, is I like to pick typically a skin friendly problem and a skin unfriendly problem. I especially do this out in Hueco. In Hueco, the skin unfriendly problems tend to find themselves. 

Kris Hampton  08:46

Haha. Yes. 

Nate Drolet  08:48

So So then I'll find problems that.... I'll find a second project that will let me pretty much recover my skin while climbing on it. 

Kris Hampton  08:57

Yep.

Nate Drolet  08:57

 So a good example was I was trying The Rhino and I was trying it at the same time as.... I forgot what it was. Something was destroying my left pinky, and The Rhino destroyed my right. But other other than my right pinky, The Rhino was super skin friendly, so I could just tape that one. 

Kris Hampton  09:14

I didn't touch my pinkies to The Rhino, so I wouldn't know. 

Nate Drolet  09:18

So to everyone else out there, I like my pinkies but that that worked well. So Rhino is compression on slopers. 

Kris Hampton  09:26

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  09:26

And other than one finger, it was great. Like I could go just shred on crimps...you know, as much as I wanted. When my skin got too bad, I could move to The Rhino. And so that was my skin recovery day project. 

Kris Hampton  09:39

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  09:39

And for me that worked out really well.

Kris Hampton  09:41

And sometimes your skin recovery needs a lot more time than just muscle recovery, or being prepared to try hard on the project again

Nate Drolet  09:49

Absolutely. 

Kris Hampton  09:50

You can wear wear a hole in your index finger on a little sharp, you know, nubbin on a crimp and you don't want to grab that hold again two days later.

Nate Drolet  10:02

Yeah. No it might take, you know, it might take you a week before it's completely healed and not going to immediately rip back open

Kris Hampton  10:09

Right.

Nate Drolet  10:11

 And so in that case, it's good to have some other things, if not completely skin friendly...like I like slopers or pinches already, so, you know, I might do two days of crimping to one day of slopers and pinches. And that's just nice and fun. 

Kris Hampton  10:25

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  10:27

But it doesn't have to be that. It can also just be, you know, you find things that don't mess up your skin in the same way. And that lets you get more high quality hard days in without digging yourself into these weird recovery holes.

Kris Hampton  10:41

Yeah, and if it's like a trip that you're going on, and you're trying to choose a project for that trip, then then I do a lot of what's kind of the next step in our, our list, which is find beta videos, do recon. I'll just watch the like compilation videos of other people's trips and see what looks really cool, what looks like it fits my style. You know, and then I go down the rabbit hole of "Where is it? How do I get there? Is it this crazy long hike that I don't want to do over and over?"

Nate Drolet  11:17

That's a big one

Kris Hampton  11:17

 Or is it in the backcountry where I can't get regularly? Or, you know, what's the situation? Is it something I can go project when it suits me? And beta videos, I think should.... if it's a project, I think it should be part of everybody's repertoire.

Nate Drolet  11:37

Absolutely. 

Kris Hampton  11:38

We're not talking.... flash projects here you know. Obviously, if it's, if you're trying to onsight things you don't maybe watch beta videos, or if you're trying to really work on your route reading skills, you don't go watch beta videos. But if it's a big project, you stand to learn quite a bit from watching someone climber who can already do it.

Nate Drolet  12:02

Yeah. Yeah. And that's going to speed up the whole process. And there's a lot of things you can learn from beta videos as well.

Kris Hampton  12:08

 Yeah, we could do whole episodes on every part of this process.

Nate Drolet  12:13

Absolutely. Like breaking down...I think just breaking down videos, that alone is like..... the whole recon process, I enjoy a lot. And I really like flashing boulders, so for me, this is something I really dig into. But some other considerations when you're watching videos and doing recon is what is the landing like?

Kris Hampton  12:30

 Yep

Nate Drolet  12:31

That one's really important because

Kris Hampton  12:32

Does this person need eight spotters there?

Nate Drolet  12:34

Yeah, because you can have a short boulder that can just eat pads, especially in areas with talus landings.

Kris Hampton  12:40

Yeah, like I climbed on one yesterday. Tiny roof, but I went back to my car twice to get more pads.

Nate Drolet  12:45

Yeah, like little, you know, a six foot tall boulder might take five pads. 

Kris Hampton  12:50

Yep

Nate Drolet  12:51

Depending on how horrible the landing is. Or you can have really tall boulders that might only take, you know, two. So that's really important. Look and see what kind of pad setups people are using in the videos. What is the landing look like? Do they have spotters? Or there weird...are there weird spots that you might need to rehearse on a rope or something like that? Like, are there dangerous spots? Figuring out how big the moves are, especially if you're, if you're really tall person or really short person, maybe trying to find different videos for someone who suits your height is really important.

Kris Hampton  13:30

Yeah. And knowing a few of the people. Like you know if, like, I like Alex Puccio's beta a lot of the times.

Nate Drolet  13:41

Haha yeah

Kris Hampton  13:41

You know, so I very often try to find videos of her doing things. 

Nate Drolet  13:46

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  13:47

And then another consideration brought up by the Alex Puccio videos is not to, not to look at a move and just go, "Oh, I don't have to worry about that. That move is really easy." You know, pay attention to the beta and just take that as a static thing. Don't don't have an emotion over it. Because if you're watching Alex Puccio, do a problem, it's going to look easy. And then you're going to get there and it's going to destroy you. 

Nate Drolet  14:14

Haha Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  14:15

Haha. That's happened to me more than once. Thanks, Alex. Yep.

Nate Drolet  14:21

And it's, you know, can help to talk with people about these things.

Kris Hampton  14:24

 Yeah.

Nate Drolet  14:24

 Because I can't tell you how many times this has happened where I've watched video or just watched people on things and man, I'll be like, "No one has trouble on this third move, but I find it so hard." And then if you talk with people who've done the problem, they'll be like, "Oh, no, it's really hard."

Kris Hampton  14:41

" I just had it super dialed"

Kris Hampton  14:43

 Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  14:43

"I had it super dialed. It's only the third move, so you just do it a ton of time. So by the time you send the boulder, it looks easy, but it's...that's the second hardest move."

Nate Drolet  14:44

Or something like that

Kris Hampton  14:54

Literally like the boulder I showed you this today, the video I showed you. I was like,  "This first move, this is literally the only time I did the first move", you know,

Nate Drolet  15:05

But in the video, I was like, z"Oh, is this like V4? I don't know""

Kris Hampton  15:07

I just went to the top because that was the only time I did the move. Might be the case in the video. Looked really easy, but it is the only time they stuck it. 

Nate Drolet  15:14

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  15:15

Yeah. And you know if it's like on Instagram or somewhere where you can reach out to the person, reach out. Ask them details. You know what, what time of day was this? What year? What time of year was this? You know, how can I plan to make the most of trying this problem? What did you think of it? You know, things like that. Just get get their opinions, get their beta.

Nate Drolet  15:40

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Time of year, time of day, all these things are all really important. 

Kris Hampton  15:45

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  15:47

Yeah. So beta recon. So videos, Instagram, looking at 8a or Mountain Project, anything like that.

Kris Hampton  15:54

Yep. Yeah, oftentimes, you can get some good info from the comments. You know, there's also some really bad info on there. But yeah, but you can get info about, you know, number of pads or the length of the approach or things like that. Sometimes.

Nate Drolet  16:12

Yeah. So those things are all important. Also, if you're climbing with a partner, who is not going to climb on that with you, figuring out what else is near there, that's good for recon.

Kris Hampton  16:21

Totally. And then once you're at the boulder, you know, you're looking at the thing, it's time to warm up. What do you what do you do? First day walk up to what you've chosen as your project.

Nate Drolet  16:37

So first off, I'm going to look at the holds, see what it is, what kind of moves there are.

Kris Hampton  16:43

And if you're going to touch them, put chalk on your damn hands. 

Nate Drolet  16:46

Yes. Chalk your hands. Especially if someone else is trying it, always chalk your hands before touching holds. 

Kris Hampton  16:52

Yeah. And brush afterward.

Nate Drolet  16:54

Yes. There are rules. So yeah, let's say I walk up to it. Am I warm yet or no?

Kris Hampton  17:02

Nope.

Nate Drolet  17:02

 Okay.

Kris Hampton  17:03

 Just dropped your pads, you want to see the project before you warm up.

Nate Drolet  17:07

Okay. So go over and immediately I'm going to see how it looks compared to my recon, especially if this is like Western gold is a good example. That's like a 40 minute hike out. I hadn't seen it before the day I went out to it. And so I had seen a bunch of videos from different angles. First thing I do when I got there is, you know, I'm looking at it. I'm saying, "Okay, this is taller than I thought it was. But maybe, but the landing was pretty good, except in if I fall off the top. Okay, so I'm going to really want to know what I'm doing at the top." So I start walking around, all different angles. I'm looking at this thing, trying to find as much information as I can. One of the people with us brought a rope. And so they dropped a rope down. And we're like figuring out where, like, where's the top out? Because it had rained, all the holds were like kind of washed off clean on the top. 

17:58

Right. 

Nate Drolet  17:59

So we're trying to make sure we know everything we can. And I had videos saved on my phone, so I'm opening that back up. I'm rewatching saying, "Okay, like they went a little further right at the top out than I would have thought.", stuff like that.

Kris Hampton  18:12

Yeah, you can spend quite a bit of time looking at the boulder, IDing holds, figuring things out before you ever start to climb.

Nate Drolet  18:22

Yeah, and, I mean that, like, that's super important. Like, that's gonna save you a lot of time and a lot of effort later. 

Kris Hampton  18:30

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  18:31

So yeah, I've looked at it now, kind of scoped it. I've got an idea for what kind of holds I'm going to be using, what kind of moves I'm going to be doing. So then as I'm walking up..

Kris Hampton  18:40

Maybe even what kind of height you're going to be climbing at and do you need to get like your high ball head a little bit ready?

Nate Drolet  18:46

Absolutely. 

Nate Drolet  18:48

Yeah, that was a big one in Hueco, for me, a lot of tall, tall boulders. So if I knew, like, when I was projecting Dark Age, I would go up, See Spot Run every day, ahead of time, which also is the same finish. But you know, I mean, you're climbing like 20 feet to the lip. And just by doing that ahead of time, I was like, "Okay, like, I'm set. Like my head is good to go for this."

Kris Hampton  18:48

Yeah

Kris Hampton  19:12

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  19:12

So that was a big part of my warm up. And then from there, I'm going to warm up for those types of holds, those types of moves. If there's a warm up boulder around, I'm going to go climb on those things. Maybe makeup eliminates to help. Like, if there's a specific type of shoulder move I'm going to do. Like when I was trying The Shield for instance, I would like I made up an eliminated on a V4 so I was doing like the same type of big shoulder cross move that you do on that, just so that I could get warm for that exact type of movement. 

Kris Hampton  19:40

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  19:42

Yeah, what about you? :ike you go up, you see it, are there any other things you would do differently for warming up?

Kris Hampton  19:48

Oh, I just I just get psyched and jump on. I don't even chalk up. 

Nate Drolet  19:52

Boom. No chalk. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  19:54

 No, I... same things. I go through, I do a lot of preparation. For me, it is really important to warm up in a really specific way. I climb a lot of compression boulders. It's really important for me to get my legs warmed up for compression boulders. So I'll do a lot of like even on the warm up boulders, I'll climb them using wide heel hooks or big toe hooks. Or you know, just trying to get my legs warm instead of the the typical way to climb it. So maybe not a hand sequence eliminate, but I'm doing like foot eliminates so that I'm purposely getting my lower body ready to squeeze as hard as possible on compression boulders. 

Nate Drolet  20:43

Yeah, that's important. 

Kris Hampton  20:44

And yeah, I try to find holds that are going to be somewhat similar. Get my, you know, just get everything ready to perform to the specifics of that project, whatever it is. And generally speaking, once I find a warm up that really works for a project, that's the warm up I do every time, you know that I go to work on that project. I don't, I don't often do the "I want to climb something new every day before I warm up or before I jump on the project." You know, sometimes that happens, but more often than not, I like the routine and I go do the same warm up,  go to the project. I feel ready. I feel more prepared. There's no, there's no surprises, you know. So that's what works for me, warming up

Nate Drolet  21:33

Word. So we've warmed up. Now we're back at the boulder. What is process from here?

Kris Hampton  21:39

For me, it depends. I'll often give like re-review it, watch video and then give a flash attempt. If it's something really hard, I may forego the flash attempt. Or if it's something that like I've already done the stand start of and I'm going back to try the sit start or something like that, I obviously can't flash it at that point. So I don't try to. But day one on it, if I haven't touched it before, generally speaking, I'll give a flash attemt. 

Nate Drolet  22:20

Okay. Cool. Nice. No, no, I do the same. And one thing I have to say to people is take flash attempts seriously. 

Kris Hampton  22:28

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  22:30

Yeah, man. I have like I've done this. And I've seen plenty of other people do this before where I like in Hueco, I was... I went up to Le Chninkel, bunch of friends were climbing on it. And my buddy Tomer had been trying it. He was like, "Nate, you want beta?". And I was like, "Yeah, of course." And so he gave me some beta and I kind of I paid attention up through the crux. And he was like, "Okay, and the top out is a a little bit tricky, but you're going to do this." And, in my mind, I wasn't planning for success. I was like, "Okay, well, I just need to worry about the crux. Like I'm gonna get to that.". Didn't pay enough attention, pulled on to try and flash it, get through the whole roof. And I turned the lip and I'm on the lip of the boulder on a V4 exit and hadn't paid enough attention. Like I knew roughly what he had said, but it was a little funny and I ended up falling off. And I was like, "Man, all I had to do was pay it, like, pay close attention and take it seriously for 20 more seconds"

Kris Hampton  23:23

Yep

Nate Drolet  23:23

 You know, but I was like, "Uh, it's fine. I'm, you know, I'll be lucky...it would be amazing if I could do this in a day kind of thing."

Kris Hampton  23:30

 Right

Nate Drolet  23:30

 In my mind, I was already saying like, "Oh, well Tomer, you're coming back Saturday? Cool. I'll come back here Saturday with you." And I hadn't even tried it. 

Kris Hampton  23:37

Right. 

Nate Drolet  23:37

And then, you know, a few minutes later, I'm kicking myself because I'm like, "Well, I should have just taken it a little more seriously."

Kris Hampton  23:43

Yeah. More times than one, I've surprised myself by a flash attempt. 

Nate Drolet  23:48

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  23:48

Just by feeling like "Okay, I'm ready to try hard. Let's, let's give it one all out attempt." You know, sometimes it ends first move, like you pull off the ground.

Nate Drolet  23:59

Yeah it does.

Kris Hampton  24:00

Your ass hits the ground again, and flash attempt is over.

Nate Drolet  24:03

 Yeah.

Kris Hampton  24:05

 But sometimes you surprise yourself. So it's, it's worth seeing, regardless.

Nate Drolet  24:09

Absolutely. So yeah, same thing, try a flash attempt. If it goes poorly...if it goes great, awesome new project. If it goes poorly, then from there, I start working out individual moves. 

Kris Hampton  24:23

Yeah.

Nate Drolet  24:24

 So generally, if I'm not doing them just in order from ground up, I like to work out kind of easiest to hardest. And the reason I like doing this is sometimes it can feel really overwhelming if, let's say the third and the fourth move are both really hard on you know, a 15 move boulder problem. And you're like, "Fuck, I can't even like do these two."

Kris Hampton  24:46

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  24:46

Well, if move five through fifteen aren't that bad...

Kris Hampton  24:50

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  24:51

Then you can be like, "Okay, well, like I can do that link for sure. And if I can make that link easy, all I have to do is the third and the fourth move together."

Kris Hampton  25:00

 Build, build some momentum.

Nate Drolet  25:01

 Yeah. And I think for projecting, building momentum, building confidence and finding little wins...man, that's so important.

Kris Hampton  25:10

Yeah. And another, you know, good reason for working out the easy moves early on is that day two, day three, day four, I use those easy moves as a warm up for the project. You know, so, so that I've got them dialed, so that I'm ensuring I'm never going to fall there and, and so that I'm getting warmed up for the actual specific moves on the project.

Nate Drolet  25:38

Absolutely. Yeah, I am a big fan of if I'm going out to a project, I like to top out... if the top half is easier, or even if just the tops easier, top it out every time before giving redpoint goes.

Kris Hampton  25:50

Yep.

Nate Drolet  25:52

 It takes a little bit of energy. But man, it's so important to have that dialed.

Kris Hampton  25:59

Yeah, absolutely. It is. What if you can't do a move?

Nate Drolet  26:03

Well, then you start a, you know, that's where the fun part begins. So you start, just start working at it. And that's something that you know, that's where a lot of your skills and technique and everything starts to be applied. You know, learning "Okay, how hard is this move? What are the different options I have? How many times do I try each option?"

Kris Hampton  26:28

Yeah

Nate Drolet  26:29

All these different things. You know, and it's totally normal to have a move feel impossible. And then five, six tries later, you're sticking it.

Kris Hampton  26:40

Yeah, some subtle shift. You know, a lot of times I've had a move that I'm like, "Okay, this the stopper move." If I'm... you know, I may never be able to do this move, or I might stick at once. And then I find some subtle shift and I'm like, "Okay, this is no longer the crux." 

Nate Drolet  26:59

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  27:00

Not even the hard move anymore. 

Nate Drolet  27:02

Yeah. Yeah. And so when you, whenever you do hit a move, that's, let's say you hit a move that you're just like, "Well, I feel like I can't do this move." For me, step one is giving, giving it a few tries, kind of just sinking my teeth into it saying, "Okay, like, what is this about?" You know, I'll give it a try and say, "Okay, maybe I'm not getting far enough." Well, like, what points of contact do I have? Is there something that would let me get more drive? Like, am I weighting my legs enough? Like, am I pulling with my low arm enough? You know, try that again. Okay, maybe that was better. Now I'm like, starting to get to the hold, but I'm not slow enough. All right, like, what's my body doing? Maybe I'll video from the side and see am I sagging out? Am I staying tight? Does it does the video look right? Like, which, you know, when I'm doing it, does my body look like it's moving in a good way? Like, or is it maybe sagging or tilting to one way one side? Am I falling away before I even get to the hold? You know, you just start working through these little bitty things and yeah, and you kind of move step by step.

Kris Hampton  28:10

Yeah. And I think, you know, using things like power spots to learn the move is super important. And frankly, an underutilized tactic, I think.

Nate Drolet  28:23

Yes

Kris Hampton  28:23

 I see it so rarely and they can be so helpful. So power spots, stacking pads to get to the difficult move. Anything you can do to save energy while you're working on that one single, really hard for you move or sequence, whatever it is. I think the the seven try rule that you've talked about is a good thing to apply here. And you know, if it's a if it's a project that you've taken time to choose, it's unlikely...it's possible, but it's unlikely that the answer is going to be "I need to be stronger." Sure, stronger is going to help. It's going to help in all the cases. But it's highly unlikely that you've gotten to the point where you feel like this is a realistic choice and you still need to get way stronger in order to do it. It's more likely that you're missing something, that there's something you could change, that there's something you're doing wrong, that will... that when you do change, will help make this move work. So the seven try rule I think is important. You want to tell people what that is?

Nate Drolet  29:47

Yeah. So with the seven try rule, whenever you find a move that's really hard, the idea is that you should try it seven times before you pass any sort of judgment on it. So this means you know, okay, I'm trying this hard move. Maybe, I can barely pull off the ground my first attempt. Hey, that's fine. Like, you know, I'm gonna rest a little bit, pull back on. Try again. Maybe I'm getting a little bit higher this time. And keep doing that until seven goes. And it's funny, a lot of people who don't project are really surprised by this because they'll say, "Wow, you know, like, okay, seven tries." And then by the time they get to the seventh try, typically they're sticking the hold, or they're just very, very close. They're like, "Oh, like, I thought it sounded ridiculous to throw myself at this seven times when, you know, I knew I wouldn't do it after one or two." But you know, then they are right there. 

Kris Hampton  30:47

Yep. Totally.

Nate Drolet  30:48

 So yeah, you give it seven tries. And after seven, you can kind of make a new evaluation. Hey, did I get any closer? Like, if so, you know, keep trying. If...an that doesn't mean you have to keep trying right then and there. Like, it could be another day. Or you can go try another move for a little while

Kris Hampton  31:06

Right.

Nate Drolet  31:07

You know, give yourself a chance to recover from that specific type of movement, and then come back to it later. And that's a tactic that I like a lot for, for boulders with multiple hard moves. You know, kind of try one for a little block, rest of it, try another block and kind of keep circling around. That way, you know, you're not just trying hard crimpy right hand shoulder move nonstop for an hour straight. Because that's what's gonna kind of leave you a little bit more sore, might dig you in a hole, might feel a little bit more tweaky for you.

Kris Hampton  31:37

Yep. Yeah, totally. 

Nate Drolet  31:40

And a big thing with the seven go rule, kind of last thing I'll say on that is, I find it's more important for experienced climbers to implement it more than new climbers. Because new climbers, man, they are typically pretty fine with just throwing themselves 

Kris Hampton  31:56

They will just throw themselves, yeah

Nate Drolet  31:57

Yeah, they know things are going to be hard and they they don't understand them. But if I work with someone who's been climbing 10 plus years, they have a pretty good feeling of what...or they believe they have a good feeling of what they can do. 

Kris Hampton  32:10

Right. So they'll short themselves

Nate Drolet  32:12

 Oh, yeah. I mean, they'll just eye up moves from the ground and be like, "Cool. Can't do that." You know, they may pull on, look up, drop off immediately. Not even go for it. They are like, "Eh, no. Like, I can't do that." And to them, like they're an experienced climber, so they feel like that is a very valid feeling. But I'm here to say it's not. 

Kris Hampton  32:33

Yep.

Nate Drolet  32:33

 Like, just..yeah, give it seven goes.

Kris Hampton  32:36

Yeah. And you might surprise yourself. And I think once you learn that you can still surprise yourself, then you're more willing to do it again. 

Kris Hampton  32:46

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Nate Drolet  32:46

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  34:11

Alright, back to the show. And we have returned. And at this point we've done we've done the moves or at least tried the moves. 

Nate Drolet  34:20

Yes

Kris Hampton  34:21

This isn't necessarily a linear process. You can start this next step, which is links, before you've done all the moves. If there's a particularly hard crux move, you might want to have all the links dialed in before you even.... before you stick that move, you know. So that you're ready to go to the top when you do stick it. 

Nate Drolet  34:45

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  34:47

So links is next. We've talked about links at length....that was almost hard to say...with sport climbing and while the basic rules still apply, I think it can, it can be a different thing bouldering, because it's so much shorter, more compact, the moves are harder and the individual moves can really make a big difference as to the overall difficulty of the boulder. So I mean, for instance, the the boulder I did yesterday, that I showed you a video of, I had done it from one move in already. Because I knew that that move was going to be the one. I tried the move few times, it felt really hard. I wasn't warmed up and ready for it. So I tried all the other moves, learned the other only other move that was hard for me, figured out all the rest, did it from one move in, that way, when I did the first move, I was ready to go to the top. So that, you know, doing a link one move in sport climbing. can sound really absurd. You know, certainly been done. 

Nate Drolet  36:10

Haha I've definitely done it 

Kris Hampton  36:13

Certainly been done by Nate Drolet. But certainly not as regularly as it's done bouldering. 

Nate Drolet  36:21

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  36:21

So you have to just shift your brain a little bit when you're thinking about links. Is there, is there any sort of... kind of steps or checklist you go through with links on boulders?

Nate Drolet  36:39

I mean, I think over overlaps are important. 

Kris Hampton  36:42

Yep.

Nate Drolet  36:42

 Like, first off, for sure the top out. I have long said and will say this forever: I don't believe in punting. 

Kris Hampton  36:52

Yeah.

Nate Drolet  36:53

 And

Kris Hampton  36:54

I have punted but I still don't believe in it.

Nate Drolet  36:56

 Yeah. As you shouldn't. Always rehearse the end. And for me, I think it really depends on the problem. But whatever the link is that kind of scares me the most, is the one I know I need to do. Like a good example

Kris Hampton  37:15

The one you want to  avoid. 

Nate Drolet  37:16

Yeah, like the one where you're like, "Oh, well, I hope I can just do that from the ground.", like, that's what you need to do.

Kris Hampton  37:23

 Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  37:24

And there, you know, there are times where there are plenty of boulders, I've only done the move once, like the crux move. And that is its own thing. But there are a lot of times where there's a link that you know you need to be able to do this in order to send the problem, but it's intimidating. 

Kris Hampton  37:43

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  37:44

So for me, that's the one I try and gun for. Like a good example is on Full Service. Classic V10 in Hueco. There's a really big move to a hold they call "The Football." And I was always falling, hitting that hold from the ground. Now I could lean in from a boulder, grabbed the football and go to the top, maybe like V5 or so. But going two moves below, like doing all the set up, the two setup moves to go for the football and taking it to the to, to me,, that was the intimidating link.

Kris Hampton  38:15

Right. 

Nate Drolet  38:15

Like it took out maybe three or four challenging moves leading into it. But it was like, man, like that was hard. I was gonna have to do the top out, which is pretty tall and committing, like I was gonna have to do it a little powered down. And you know, I wasn't going to get victory points when I when I did it. Like, but when I did that, suddenly, something shifted in my mind that "Okay, like, I'm never going to fall off the top again. Like I did it from here. Like, I'm going to be revved up when I get here from the bottom. Like, that's it. Like we're good to go." So for me, the big scary links or  intimidating links.

Kris Hampton  38:53

Yeah, yeah, the same. Very similar story with me on Giving Tree. You know, the season that I did it last spring, I was I could do the stand start, which is a V8, every time pretty easily. You know, it was one of my warm up problems. And from the sit, I could climb into the stand every single time. 

Nate Drolet  39:18

Yep

Kris Hampton  39:19

And I was falling on the first move of the stand.

Nate Drolet  39:22

 And it's kind of... something of a one mover. 

Kris Hampton  39:24

Yeah, so it's a big giant move there. And I had not... even though I had tried it multiple times, done the link of two moves...essentially one move into the stand. Two moves into the stand, I guess. I hadn't done that link at all. They're easy moves. I don't think I ever fell off those moves. That's not true. I did fall off those moves. But I had them dialed, but I couldn't do the link. And when I finally did do that link, which I didn't put nearly enough focus on doing, it really gave me some momentum. And some, you know, made me sure that I could do the boulder. Like, okay, now I've done this big throw climbing into it and not just starting at that move, you know, so. So doing that link that I really didn't want to do, I wanted to avoid, gave me some momentum. Even if it was just mindset, it gave me the momentum.

Nate Drolet  40:34

Yeah, you know, and another reason for doing the big, intimidating links is that it's a good way of stress testing your beta. Because there are a lot of moves that you can do individually and maybe you think your beta is working, but when you're trying to do this link, maybe you'll realize, "Oh, I didn't test this foot walk. Like I did one move with my foot way out to the right. And then I dropped and then I pulled on with my foot out already to the left, and I did the next move. I need to figure that out." Or you might be doing a really powerful way that feels great in isolation, but you're going to need to kind of dumb down some of those moves if you're going to do them on a link.

Kris Hampton  41:16

Yeah, and I, you know, something you just said, is kind of one of the overlooked parts of linking boulders. And that's the foot walks or the transitions between difficult moves. If you get caught up in, "I just need to do this. I'll do this hard move. And I'll do this hard move.", you might miss the the transition between the two, which can be as simple as moving your feet once. But that can be the crux of a boulder. 

Nate Drolet  41:49

Yeah

Kris Hampton  41:49

You know that for me, the hardest part of The Giving Tree is moving my feet and keeping the tension and moving into new positions, not doing the moves themselves. And that's what that link exploited. It was, it all revolved around moving into a new position where I could weight a foot. So make sure you're paying attention to those transition moves, the in between parts between the hard moves. Don't skip over those when you're doing the links.

Nate Drolet  42:22

 Yeah. And one another thing that this is very much like kind of a little more tactical, like on a micro sense. If you're working individual moves, sometimes those moves will be easier on link than they are by themselves.

Kris Hampton  42:38

Sure. Yeah. Hard to pull on in position, things like that. 

Nate Drolet  42:42

Totally. 

Kris Hampton  42:43

You're already kind of pre tensioned to do the moves. 

Nate Drolet  42:45

Yeah, exactly. Like you build that requisite tension by doing the move into it, or doing the foot walk into it. So sometimes it's easier to go back a move and link in to try an individual move, rather than just pulling on to try that move by itself. 

Kris Hampton  43:01

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  43:01

And that sounds counterintuitive. But I mean, you know, I've encountered hundreds of moves that 

Kris Hampton  43:07

Oh, yeah, same

Nate Drolet  43:07

 I could never do by themselves just pulling on, but if I do the move into it, I'll do it, you know, fairly consistently. 

Kris Hampton  43:15

Yep, absolutely. That's a good beta.

Nate Drolet  43:18

 That's something worth looking into. Especially just with very core intensive or position intensive movements. It's hard to tell sometimes. Like, you might not even realize you're doing it until you try a link. And you're like, "Oh, well, I haven't done that move. I'm just gonna try and link into it." And you might even do the move on link and that's when you realize like, "Oh, I have to be in this position with this type of tension, you know, and this effort level as well."

Kris Hampton  43:43

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  43:43

To be able to do this type of move. 

Kris Hampton  43:45

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you just, you just mentioned that, when you're doing links, it might expose that your beta doesn't work as well as you thought it did when you were just doing individual moves. And, you know, that leads us into kind of this next step, after you've got some overlapping links figured out and you feel like, you might be ready to start trying to send I think it's a good time to say, "Is my beta foolproof? You know, am I setting myself up in every situation? Or did my link exposed beta that isn't really working for me?" And if it is, it's time to experiment with new beta. You know, don't just don't just fall into the trap of sticking to the way you first did it. It very often, you'll find a better way if you explore and get creative.

Nate Drolet  44:44

Yeah, no, absolutely. And, you know, from there, like, we typically like so let's say, you've done links, you feel confident, and maybe in between these links, so let's say you were working on a crux move. And one thing you can do is you can work on that crux move, maybe you haven't done it yet, you know, work on it for 15-20 minutes, and then go try some links for a little bit. Rest, maybe go back to the crux move, so you can kind of keep flipping back and forth. And ideally, you're kind of shore things up from both ends to where, you know, if the crux is really hard, maybe you will only stick it once. Like and that happens. But if that's the case, like you want to have everything dialed so well that you just do the boulder.

Kris Hampton  45:30

Yeah, and you know, that brings up something interesting. It's entirely possible and it happens all the time that maybe the links you do don't show up a beta problem. But as you gain more awareness, you start to feel more intuitive about, "Okay, this feels a little harder than it should or then I want it to, or maybe it feels a little lower percentage than I'm comfortable with, knowing that I'll be powered down when I get here from the ground." So it's worth trying to rework beta, looking for efficiencies, refining the sequences at the end of really hard projects. Or at the beginning, so that you arrive at the crux with more energy, you know, just to set yourself up for success. So don't just stick to the things that present themselves as a problem, really try to think of it as a whole and what are what are you going to feel like when you get there? You know, or what do you need to feel like when you get to this spot, and, and start to refine things.

Nate Drolet  46:39

Yeah. And so what is this process...what would you do next in this process?

Kris Hampton  46:47

Frankly, I would probably be in this part of the process for far too long, trying to refine things, make things easier. It's been one of my struggles over the last couple of years that I, I think I've gotten way better at, but still have a really long way to go, is learning when to try really hard and when to keep refining and dialing beta and changing beta and exploring new things. I think there are a lot of occasions where I could have sent had I tried harder, even though my beta wasn't perfect yet. So for me now, I would default or I would try to default to "Let's move right into send attempts once I have the links, once I feel okay with my beta. And let's try to turn the effort level up to where it needs to be." Just because I know what my normal, you know, disposition is and that's to keep dialing.

Nate Drolet  47:58

Yeah, no. And I think that's really important. And we have a couple of questions here and that was one of them. But knowing when to stop searching for new beta and when to just try hard. Like this is something I think it's a spectrum that most people live somewhere on. Like, I was climbing with Roland Chen last year. And I'm the same way,  I love..like I love hunting for new beta. I like finding new positions. Like sometimes I just get lost down that rabbit hole just because it's I find it really enjoyable. 

Kris Hampton  47:58

Yeah

Nate Drolet  48:17

Like I'm like, "Oh, but what if I did this? How does that affect the next move?" And at one point he was lik... we were climbing together and at one point, he's like, "Man, you just need to pull the trigger."  And I did. And I linked like, completely through that full section. And I was just like, "Yeah, that wasn't great beta, but it got it done." Where, you know, with him, he like, he has had to err more on the opposite side of "Hey take your time, like find the positions", you know, things like that. So it's important to know, where you sit on that spectrum. And I think for someone like us who can be guilty of just trying to beta dial things down forever, you know, maybe it's putting a limit on things, like a time limit. We have a drill we really like called 10 Minute Takedowns, where you... this is typically in the gym, but you can do it outside too, but set a timer. You have 10 minutes to dial in everything. Like full tactics, anything you want, figure out this problem to the best of your ability. When the 10 minutes goes off, rest for a couple minutes and you get two attempts to try and send. That's it. No more rehearsing moves. Just, you know, rip it.

Kris Hampton  49:42

Yeah, that's a good way to practice it in the gym or, you know, even out at boulders on more moderate things, you know, low end miniprojects, things like that. And something that's helped me a lot is just trying to change my value system. Where I really value the idea of climbing something hard and making it look good, you know, making it look like it wasn't hard. I've also learned to really value the idea of just absolute, all out battle scrapping for the next move, you know, and fighting. And it's, it's very easy. And I see it a lot,  to give up when things go wrong on a really hard project. You know, just "Oh no. There's no way I can finish it if I'm making that many mistakes. I'm dropping off. "

Nate Drolet  50:37

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  50:40

But you'll surprise yourself if you can learn to battle and learn to value that battle. 

Nate Drolet  50:46

Yeah

Kris Hampton  50:47

I want to have, every season I want to have sends of both kinds, where I've had to dial it in, I've got it dialed in. I sent, you know, this process that makes sense on paper. And then I want to have sends where I jumped into the send attempt a little earlier than I maybe should have, and something goes wrong, but I make an intuitive decision, and I fight for it. And I somehow get through. You know, I want those sends too. It's a skill and I want I want to collect all the skills. 

Nate Drolet  51:20

Haha. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  51:21

I want them all

Nate Drolet  51:22

It's really gratifying too. Like, you know, I've probably tried, I've tried so much harder on like, V9s and V10s where I just put myself like, I was like, "Okay, I'm in the situation where like, I'm just gonna go now."

Kris Hampton  51:33

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  51:34

And I just tried like really hard to get it done. Versus like V11 or 12, where I took my time and really dialed it. 

Kris Hampton  51:41

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  51:41

But you know, like, a lot of those ones that I dialed, maybe I could have gotten them done earlier if I had that like V9 or V10 mindset of like, "Hey, just rip it."

Kris Hampton  51:48

 Yeah, totally. 

Nate Drolet  51:50

And you see people like this all the time. Like, there are a couple like big tenets to climbing well, and I think confidence is one of them. And man, you can really overcome a lot of things with high levels of confidence. 

Kris Hampton  52:03

You sure as hell can. 

Nate Drolet  52:05

Like you can see people it's like, well, they don't have a lot of technique, and they're not the strongest, but I'll be damned if they just don't try really hard and every time they go for a hold, they look like they know they're gonna grab it. 

Kris Hampton  52:17

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  52:18

And man like those people can scrap up some pretty hard climbs with like, lacking in a lot of departments.

Kris Hampton  52:25

Yes, so much of, of falling and I'm air quoting again here. So much of "falling" off boulders is jumping off, giving up, not being confident in the next move and committing to sticking the hold. You know, it's, there's a lot of half-assery that goes on in the boulder fields, myself included. And it's just something I've learned to check myself on more and more like, give real attempts, instead of.... give myself the chance to succeed.

Nate Drolet  52:25

Yeah,

Kris Hampton  52:31

You know, if you're, if you half ass a move, you're not giving yourself the chance to do the boulder. I'm out there to give myself as many chances as possible.

Nate Drolet  53:10

Yeah. So okay, we're now into we're giving redpoint goes. What does this process look like? Like, let's say, you just gave a redpoint go, you fall in the crux. Crux is eight moves in on like a 15 move problem.

Kris Hampton  53:25

Yeah, I'm gonna, regardless of where the crux is, I'm going to ask, "Why did I fall?". You know, was it...is it a situation where the crux is just hard and, and I, you know, I just need more attempts from the start into the crux? Or did that expose something in my beta that didn't work? You know, was there, was there something harder on that send attempt than I was finding on the links or on the individual moves? And why? What about it was harder? You know, something about climbing into it, something about how much time I've spent under tension and things are starting to fall apart? You know, what is it? And I try to break that down and find a way to either make it more efficient, or just remind myself, you've got the efficient way. You just need to give more effort there. Put more behind it. So I'll probably try it from the start quite a few times, you know. Maybe the majority of that session, if I feel like, I've got enough of that figured out and I'm ready for the send attempts. I'll spend a lot of that session trying from the start. And then when I know I don't have enough left to do it from the start, then I might go and start refining some things to set myself up better for the next session.

Nate Drolet  54:55

Okay. Cool. 

Kris Hampton  54:57

How about you? 

Nate Drolet  54:59

You know, pretty similar. Mostly in that, like, give it a redpoint effort. And it's the same, like redpoint effort...it's just, you know, the big link. Like, but from there, it's "Okay, how did that go?" Like, try and even take little notes as I'm climbing. Like, if you're, if your foot placements weren't perfect, like, "Okay, I was moving fast and I'm 50/50 on that one going well, like, okay, that was okay. "Just keep kind of like, you know, you're not dwelling on these things as you're climbing, 

Kris Hampton  55:29

Right

Nate Drolet  55:30

But just kind of letting it float to the back of your head, like, hey, just take note

Kris Hampton  55:34

Little markers along the way.

Nate Drolet  55:35

 Yeah. And so you know, and if I come if I fall in the crux, first I say like, "Okay, what happened? Like, did I was I executing that move the way I wanted to? Did I start in the right position? Did I traveled th5ough the right path? Did I get to the end position I wanted?". You know and each of these can kind of evolve in its own spiderweb of questions. 

Kris Hampton  55:54

Yeah

Nate Drolet  55:54

. And then I look at, you know, how was the link before? Was there anything...how, like, how are my tactics right now? Have I been brushing the holds? Is my skin dry? Have I been resting long enough? That one's really important. And I think between redpoint goes, you know, if you've got all day, or if you've got hours, there's no reason reason you should be resting less than five minutes. 

Kris Hampton  56:16

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  56:16

Like and set a timer, because most of us don't know what five minutes actually looks like 

Kris Hampton  56:21

For sure.

Nate Drolet  56:23

 So yeah, really just trying to make sure I'm utilizing everything I can.

Kris Hampton  56:30

What are some common things that you see in that process, that you make little mental notes of, that you have to go back? Are there, are there themes over the years? That you end up doing later in the process

Nate Drolet  56:51

Um...like, small adjustments, like exactly where I'm hitting holds on

Nate Drolet  56:54

That's exactly I was thinking about,

Nate Drolet  56:56

Like, "Am I hitting holds exactly where I want them to be?". Especially leading up to the crux. Because I climb I like to climb fast. Like I just like moving quick and I'm a fan of, if I can cover the distance in less time, I'm going to be better set for the crux. So I might, like sometimes I might just say "How, how many moves can I cut out while still being intelligent about it?" But also, I'll start looking at the holds and saying like, "Okay, this felt good. But as I moved past maybe, like, how do I actually want it when I'm past the hold? Can I grab it like that from below?", so things like that, so really looking at small detail. So I, man, I get my face two inches away from footholds, like I touch footholds with my finger. I poke them until I find exactly what I want. Like, a lot of times the biggest part of a foothold is also the most polished. So is there a better part, is there you know, a slightly worse part, but with more friction, right next to it? Like more often than not, that's where I'm stepping. 

Kris Hampton  58:00

Yep. Or just works better for your position. You know, it's, yeah, a lot of people go straight for the big part. 

Nate Drolet  58:06

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. So I started looking more into these details. I might be videoing myself at this point and looking at that. And with these redpoint goes I'm, yeah, like I'm trying to pay attention to overall, hey, what's happening? Like, was that close? Do I, you know, just need to keep giving it more goes, working on my effort, you know, trying to dial in like little things or do I need to make a big change? Like, am I just making a really like, have I settled into bad beta and convinced myself that's the way?

Kris Hampton  58:40

Yep. Yeah, one of the things I've found over the years, the two big ones for me are definitely how I'm grabbing the holds and making sure I'm hitting them in the right spot every time. Because I know that on, you know, something a couple of grades under my max, I can I can grab the holds like an asshole and still do it

Nate Drolet  58:59

Yeah

Kris Hampton  59:00

You know. But I need to be more precise and faster with my precision. So that's a big one for me. And second is figuring out when to breathe, has played a big part in climbing harder boulders for me. Like, I need to hold my breath here. Here's where I take a deep breath. You know, here's where I let everything relax. Here's where I tension everything up. And having that become part of my sequence, a rehearsed part of my sequence, helps me massively.

Nate Drolet  59:31

Yeah. You know, and one little side thing on that is having a partner who can help you with that is huge. Like one thing that's fun in these Mellow videos that are coming out, whenever, like Jimmy Webb and Keenan Takahashi are climbing together, like they yell cues at each other frequently. Like it'll be "Hey, hold your breath.", "Take a deep breath and squeeze", like "Squeeze with the legs," like "Tension", "Isolate", all these different things. Yeah, so they're helping each other like, remember these, you know one and two word cues. 

Kris Hampton  1:00:01

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  1:00:02

And I think that's really huge. I mean, a lot of times, that's what it comes down to with projects is, you know, "Okay, my body knows how to do 99% of this. LIke, I just need to focus on one thing." And having a partner who can help you with that, like, you know, reminding you "Take a breath." Like if you just linked through the crux, and you have like, hard redpoint crux on this boulder, having a partner being like, "Hey, take a breath, execute", things like that, like that can go a long way to kind of hit the reset button on your brain.

Kris Hampton  1:00:31

Yeah. And if you know what those things are, if you've discovered those things throughout the process, you know, maybe it's that you're starting to move with your arms bent too much, and you need to sag a little more to start the move, but it's your natural reaction to keep your arms bent and stay tensioned before you try the move, have you know, tell your partner, "When I get here, just say 'Sag' ", You know, help your partners know how to coach you.

Nate Drolet  1:01:03

Yeah, that's a big one. Yeah. No, absolutely. And so

Kris Hampton  1:01:10

Resting, let's talk a little bit more about resting. I think in "Nine out of 10 Climbers Make The Same Mistakes", Dave MacLeod mentions one minute of rest per 

Nate Drolet  1:01:24

Move 

Kris Hampton  1:01:24

Difficult move on a boulder.

Nate Drolet  1:01:26

Yeah

Kris Hampton  1:01:28

 Is that something you go by in general?

Nate Drolet  1:01:31

Man when I was 16 6hat sounded like an eternity.

Kris Hampton  1:01:33

Sure did.

Nate Drolet  1:01:33

Now I'm like, "I could take two."

Kris Hampton  1:01:35

Haha you know, I could take a nap, you know eat a sandwich

Nate Drolet  1:01:41

Haha. you know, Ben Moon, before he sent his most recent 9a, he went out and took a nap for hours, I think. 

Nate Drolet  1:01:49

He was just like, out at the crag took a nap, came back, sent.

Kris Hampton  1:01:49

Yeah

Kris Hampton  1:01:52

 Yeah. It works. It works for old people especially.

Nate Drolet  1:01:55

I wasn't gonna go there. But, yes. 

Kris Hampton  1:01:57

Hahaha. Ben's not that much older than me, so you can say that.

Nate Drolet  1:02:01

 You can say it. And, uh, you know, guest of the podcast. 

Kris Hampton  1:02:04

Yeah, absolutely. One of the only people to say, "We don't tweet, we scream like eagles."

Nate Drolet  1:02:08

Oh I know. That's still one of my favorites. Back on topic. Um, rest. So with rest, there's a couple things I think that are really important. One, eat food. Like, man, climbers are so bad about this, but eat food during your session.

Kris Hampton  1:02:25

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  1:02:26

Like I normally break mine up, I'll have like a banana halfway through my session. But you can also like I love gummy snacks 

Kris Hampton  1:02:33

Snapped in half. 

Nate Drolet  1:02:34

Snapped in half. Commit. 

Kris Hampton  1:02:36

Yeah. Oh, gummies are great. That's a good one.

Nate Drolet  1:02:40

I go Twin Snakes pretty frequently.

Kris Hampton  1:02:42

 No, dude. Bears are the only way.

Nate Drolet  1:02:45

Ha. Bears. You got a brand?

Kris Hampton  1:02:48

We like Haribo

Nate Drolet  1:02:50

Okay. 

Kris Hampton  1:02:51

That's where we go usually

Nate Drolet  1:02:53

Nice

Kris Hampton  1:02:53

Unless Haribo are not available, and then we slum it a little. Lately, my snack has been...and my breakfast and my lunch have been pizza. I just make a frozen pizza in the morning. I pile it with vegetables and extra sauce and I'm so excited to eat it throughout the day that I can barely contain myself. So. So I love it. And, and it's the... I've found it's the best way for me to keep snacking throughout my whole session 

Nate Drolet  1:03:30

To bring pizza?

Kris Hampton  1:03:32

 Bring sliced up pizza in several Tupperwares and just eat a piece at a time every 30 minutes or so.

Nate Drolet  1:03:40

 Nice. Yeah. Regardless of what you bring, man food is so important. Like that's yeah, that's one thing I feel like climbers could do better. Honestly, in the gym too, like, I've started packing a banana or just something like around 30 grams of carbs for me to the gym every day. So that's I think roughly two fistfuls of Twin Snakes, but

Kris Hampton  1:04:04

Twin Snakes... don't listen to this

Nate Drolet  1:04:06

Eating food, long rests, time your tests I actually learned timing your rests from Ravioli Biceps. When we used to climb in Hueco together, we had a little uh, you know, like Walmart watch clipped to his a chalk bucket. Every time he fell, he'd start the timer. And it wasn't even so much that "Okay, I have to pull back on in five minutes exactly.", but it was kind of like, "Okay, I'm feeling pretty, like I'm feeling pretty good. Maybe I'll go again" and, looking down if it's only been 90 seconds,  which happens

Kris Hampton  1:04:37

Yeah. Totally

Nate Drolet  1:04:38

You know, it's like, "Oh, let's wait a few minutes." But you know, it could be "Well, I'm nervous. I don't...am I ready?" and you look down and it's been 15 minutes, you're like, "I need to pull the trigger. Like, this is just nerves right now. This isn't actually me recovering probably."

Kris Hampton  1:04:53

Yeah. And if you're on send goes, oftentimes I'll I'll take my shoes off after oe or two send goes.

Nate Drolet  1:05:02

Oh, yeah.

Kris Hampton  1:05:03

 You know, it's it's tempting to just keep your shoes on and end up rapid firing, you know, over and over and over. Yeah, but not the best tactic for sure.

Nate Drolet  1:05:14

Yeah, shoes off, down jacket on, down booties on. 

Kris Hampton  1:05:17

Haha

Nate Drolet  1:05:18

Brush your holds, you know, readjust crash pads, if needed. They might have shifted. Do whatever you need, kind of walk around, stay loose.

Kris Hampton  1:05:26

Yeah, and I think that kind of maintenance is a great way to, to end up resting an appropriate amount of time. You know, be brushing holds, be videoing for somebody else, you know, shift pads around, move pads for someone trying another boulder. Whatever it is, you know, do maintenance, be a good support team and that that ends up forcing you to rest a little bit. 

Nate Drolet  1:05:51

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  1:05:54

 You want to take a break and then come back with some kind of common questions that pop up in the in the projecting process?

Nate Drolet  1:06:03

 Sounds great. 

Kris Hampton  1:06:04

The questions that are damn near impossible to answer...unless you're us.

Nate Drolet  1:06:10

Boom. 

Kris Hampton  1:06:10

Alright, break break.

Kris Hampton  1:06:13

Just kidding. We're not going to break here. Instead, we're going to wrap it up. We've got almost an hour left in this conversation after the break. So I will put this in a part two, which if you're subscribed, is already right there in your pocket supercomputers waiting. If not, go find it and subscribe. We've also got a part three coming. This is along onversation. It is complicated. I'm also going to leave you hanging. No no screaming, no eagles, no twittering, none of that. This isn't the end. Go to part two.

PART 2 (Ep. 183):

Nate Drolet  00:00

Hey everybody, Kris here. This is part two of what actually turned out to be a three part conversation on bouldering tactics. So if you have not yet, you should go back and listen to part one. You'll be missing out on a lot of pertinent information that leads in to where we're at, in this episode. So, go do that now. It's right there in your pocket supercomputer, the episode just before this one. Also, if you have not yet, check out the Crag Kit, and the Boulder Bag, our two newest products, designed to make you more efficient, more organized and reduce your excuses. You can find those powercompanyclimbing.com. All right, let's get into it. 

Kris Hampton  00:42

And we are back with impossible to answer questions. And there's a lot of them. You know, this is gonna be a small portion of them. But these are the ones that we come up against pretty commonly. And kind of always are a mindfuck. Like, for instance, the the hardest one for me, and this is something we've already touched on a little bit, is when do you focus on making beta changes and when do you just try harder? You know that continuing redpoint attempts and trying harder could finish you for the session, drop your energy to a point where you won't even be able to recognize that beta changes work better. But then spending time with new beta and then not finding anything means that you've wasted your energy for trying harder. So it's this weird mindfuck place of "What do I do now? I've been trying this thing for a while. I haven't sent. What do I do?" Since you're also a person who likes to dial things in, are there any ways that you know have to, like definitively say, "I need to do one or the other now."

Nate Drolet  02:14

I normally let Roland Chen decide that one for me. It's just that deep voice behind me, saying "You need to trigger right now."

Kris Hampton  02:23

You need a recording on your phone

Nate Drolet  02:25

Haha just of Roland

Kris Hampton  02:26

To play. Yes.

Nate Drolet  02:28

It's, it's hard. For me, I think the deeper into a bouldering season I am and the more boulders I've done, the better I am at figuring this out. Like for me, doing those quick sends of I won't...I mean, I'll just call them sloppy like,  where it's like, "Hey, I'm just getting this done. Like I didn't spend the time to do all the like figure out all the beta. I'm just gonna try really hard." The more I do those, the more I realize how great that range is. 

Kris Hampton  02:58

Yeah

Nate Drolet  02:59

And how much I can get away with with just a high level of, of effort. 

Kris Hampton  03:04

Yeah, I think that's important. I looked at it as kind of practicing that effort. I spent so much time practicing the art of coming up with creative beta that fits me, dialing things in, being more efficient. But I spent very little time practicing the art of just fucking try hard now. 

Nate Drolet  03:24

Yeah

Kris Hampton  03:25

You know. So I've definitely gone the, you know, tipped the scales in the other direction of I'm trying hard too soon. You know, I'm giving redpoint efforts way before I should be, but I'm learning the intricacies and the subtleties of that so that then I can better apply. So I think it's a time thing. You just have to spend time in both zones to more effectively learn where that line is.

Nate Drolet  03:57

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I, that's how I feel as well, like, you kind of just have to spend time in both zones. I'm a big fan of spending the early season you know, you can build your base and as you are doing it, you know you that's when you're like "Hey, I'm just gonna pull the trigger, get this done." And you're still working out beta. But I think if you start your season by saying, "Hey, I'm going to really dig into this project, work out all the minutiae", then you didn't get a chance to really develop that try hard muscle. 

Kris Hampton  04:30

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  04:31

And you see this with rope climbing a lot too. Like people who are so used to betaing everything down bolt to bolt, move to move, that they forgot how to try hard.

Kris Hampton  04:41

Yep. And I think it goes vice versa too. You know, if you're a person who just naturally tries hard every single time you pull on, but you suck at figuring out where your beta could be better, because you're always just used to powering through all the time, then starting your season off with some "Okay, let me... I know I can just power through this and I and I already did. But now let me come back and figure out how to make it better and exercise my, you know, creative beta thinking." I think that's really important.

Nate Drolet  05:16

Yeah. You know, and if you're someone who struggles with creative beta thinking, climbing around other people is a great way to go.

Kris Hampton  05:22

 Yep. 

Nate Drolet  05:23

Like, find other people who do things differently than you. Different heights, just different sizes and strengths, and try and mimic them. It's probably going to feel fucked up, because you're doing something that's not feeling natural for you like it's out of your comfort zone. That's okay. Go with it. Like try and climb with someone who is and climb how someone who is five inches shorter than you climbs. Mimic that, like, you're gonna learn a lot. Yeah, find someone who twists every move where you normally climb square, or vice versa.

Kris Hampton  05:53

Yeah, and one of the most infuriating parts of like figuring out whether to dial in beta or just try harder is when you come up with beta that almost works. 

Nate Drolet  06:07

Oooh

Kris Hampton  06:07

That it all feels so easy. But there's one little thing that won't allow it to happen. You can go down this rabbit hole of trying to find that one little thing because you're like, "This is the hardest thing I've ever tried. But if I can make this one thing happen, I'll be able to do it right now."

Nate Drolet  06:29

Yep, "If I can just get my right foot to there. And then I'll get my left hand on this like this. It's more of an undercling, you know, then I can do it."

Kris Hampton  06:37

Haha yes

Nate Drolet  06:37

Where realistically it's like that, that might just not be possible for you to get into. 

Kris Hampton  06:42

Right

Nate Drolet  06:42

And you're gonna spend more time and energy attempting to get into that, than if you just found better beta.

Kris Hampton  06:48

Yeah. So is there a way to know "I just have to just abandon this new line of thinking entirely and forget about it."

Nate Drolet  07:03

Hmm.... I don't know, it's hard. Like it's, you know, adding in new beta into a crux is difficult. Like, so let's say for instance, you found a move where you're like, "Okay, I can do this, but it's really hard." And then someone's like, "Well, have you tried this method?"

Kris Hampton  07:22

Which will happen on every project you ever do haha

Nate Drolet  07:26

Always. And the thing is, it's really hard to tell if that new beta is better immediately. 

Kris Hampton  07:31

Right

Nate Drolet  07:32

Because let's say it took you 15 goes to stick the first method, and you try this other method that they recommend, and it feels impossible first try. It may be easier. It may just be that it's still hard enough, it's going to take you five tries, or 10 tries to stick it. So it's, it's very challenging.

Kris Hampton  07:53

Yeah, you have to give it a chance, you know, and I encountered that on The Giving Tree this past spring, where there was a piece of beta, that that was gonna make things easier if I could connect it with another piece of beta. And I just wasn't able to find a connection. And, but I tried multiple sessions. And the way I ended up choosing to work through it was I stuck with my beta, gave redpoint efforts. When I felt like, "Okay, I'm too far gone at this point, I don't think I'll be able to send, even if I hit everything right. Let's play with this beta a little more, let's, let's exhaust all the options of trying to find this connection." So that I wasn't wasting a session, you know, trying something that wasn't going to work. And on the flip side, maybe if I had tried it fresh, I might have found a way. So that's why this whole thing is a mindfuck. And, but that's what we love about puzzles is that they're hard to solve.

Nate Drolet  09:08

Yeah, you know, if there was a perfect rubric for this, then it wouldn't be hard.

Kris Hampton  09:13

 Yeah.

Nate Drolet  09:14

 But it is and that's why it's awesome. So all right, here's the next question. Let's say you're too tired to give redpoint efforts, but you still have energy left.

Kris Hampton  09:27

 Yep.

Nate Drolet  09:28

 What do you do to set yourself up for success on your next session?

Kris Hampton  09:33

A, it depends on when the next session is. You know, if I'm on a trip and or a weekend or something, and I have and I'm doing two back to back days, then I stop. Rest. If I know I have a rest day, then if there is beta that I've you know, made these mental notes of while I'm climbing that, "Oh I'm not hitting that hold exactly right every time" or "I feel like maybe I could get more out of that foot", then I'll play with those little pieces of beta, trying to find small efficiencies, not necessarily in the crux, but on sections leading up to the crux or, or the finish. You know, if there's something that felt a little off, like an off balance move that I don't like, but I can do it every time, I still want to find a way to make it feel feel more high percentage, and I want to be able to feel comfortable in that position. So I'll look for alternatives there, you know, and just try to shore up the ends around the crux, whatever that is. You?

Nate Drolet  10:54

Pretty similar. For me, it kind of depends if the front end or back end feels more challenging. Once again, I don't believe in punting. So, I always rehearse the finish before I leave. But another thing is, if there's a sequence, a buddy of mine refers to it as "order of operations climbing", where the sequence won't be difficult as long as you move every limb in the correct order. So it's like, right foot goes up, right hand, you know, readjust his right. readjusts right foot moves again, right hand bumps, all these little things that it seems like you could do this sequence any number of ways. But if you do it in the exact order, it's perfect. And also, it's normally a normally, these stand out, because they're easy to mix up. 

Kris Hampton  11:46

Yeah

Nate Drolet  11:47

Like you're doing it and maybe

Kris Hampton  11:48

You can end up backwards all the time. 

Nate Drolet  11:51

Yeah

Kris Hampton  11:51

Like "How did I get in this position?"

Nate Drolet  11:52

Totally. And maybe there's a repetition in sequences. So you might be like, high right foot, bump, bump, right. And then the next sequence is high right foot, bump right, cross left, and you might accidentally just go right into bump, bump bump, right again

Kris Hampton  12:09

Right

Nate Drolet  12:10

And it might be possible, there might be a hold there, but you'll find yourself stuck. 

Kris Hampton  12:13

Yeah

Nate Drolet  12:14

And this is incredibly common that you'll have these repetitions, these different patterns and your brain tries to latch to these patterns that shouldn't be there. So if I find an order of operation section, I like to really dial that in to where that is just the only option. To where I'm almost just used like rote memorization at that point. Like, I want that to feel just like that is the only pattern there. That's the only option when I get there. Um, so for me, that's a really big one. 

Kris Hampton  12:44

Yeah, you know, something, from my music days that I've used to break out of those weird, like, this pattern automatically puts me into this other pattern, even though it's not correct. There would be songs that a certain lyric would lead me into another song, or another lyric, even though it wasn't the right one for this song. And once I started recognizing that those would happen, occasionally, I had to make specific changes, either to the beat, or to a lyric to keep me from falling into that pattern, you know? So. So there can be all sorts of ways to sort of, sort of interrupt your pattern recognition that you fall into automatically, you know. But the first step in that is recognizing that you are falling into this pattern over and over again, you know where you're supposed to cross, but you bump. Why? You know, that's not the beta.

Nate Drolet  13:52

Yeah. But you'll see people do it so often. LIke you'll see, like, I see people all the time, they'll be 80 feet up on a route. And they bumped to, they bumped instead of crossing for the fourth go in a row. 

Kris Hampton  14:02

Right. 

Nate Drolet  14:03

It's like you had one thing to remember.

Kris Hampton  14:05

Yep. And you know, if I recognize that's happening on on a boulder, I will ask my partner to, like "When I get here, say this word. Every time. Say "cross", because I'm gonna forget and I'm gonna bump". For whatever reason that's what happens. 

Nate Drolet  14:23

Yes. 

Kris Hampton  14:24

So break that pattern however you can.

Nate Drolet  14:26

 Yeah, absolutely. So that's, to me, that's a big one is I try to identify patterns. And especially if you've changed beta a couple times, sometimes I'll... like you need to really write over that first beta that you had, because it might try and crop back up like, 

Nate Drolet  14:44

Oh, yeah, especially when you're under a little bit of stress, you'll be climbing. You might get in and then you realize, "Oh, no, I did the foot walk from the old beta"

Kris Hampton  14:52

Right. You combine three betas, and you end up in a pretzel and you have no idea how you got there.

Nate Drolet  14:57

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So you just want to like blast over that old beta and only have your new beta. 

Kris Hampton  15:02

Yeah.

Nate Drolet  15:03

 So for me, those are big ones. You know, and I think it's important you brought up, "Am I going to get back the next day, the next month, next week?". If I know it's going to be a couple days, I'm honestly, if I'm, if I'm resting the next day, I might also just use it for fitness too. LIke, if I know, "Okay, this is a big boulder and powering down is a big thing"

Kris Hampton  15:24

Yep

Nate Drolet  15:24

Like, I may just do big fitness burns on it. Like one of the first V8s I ever did was Sandblasting Skin at Dayton. It is  23 move roof. And, you know, if I pulled on from, let's say, six moves in, I could go from there to the end almost every single time. And so I would project it doing the full links. But when I was done, and I felt confident with my beta, I was like, "Cool, I'll just do a bunch of fitness laps, you know, run it another four or five times." And so that when I came back, I would have the end more dialed and a little bit more fitness to go with it.

Kris Hampton  15:59

Yeah, totally. And you know that I'm glad you brought that back up. Because if it is, you know, it's a trip and you're not coming back for three weeks or a month or something, I will A, walk through all the beta

Nate Drolet  16:15

 Oh, yes 

Kris Hampton  16:15

Talking about it. Or I'll have a video of me doing links and all put it together with a narration of talking through the beta, something like that. And then give some Hail Marys. 

Nate Drolet  16:32

Yeah

Kris Hampton  16:32

You know? So what if you completely burn yourself out and you can't climb the next day? You're leaving anyway.

Nate Drolet  16:38

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  16:39

 So give those Hail Marys but have that good beta locked in somewhere where you can review it before your next trip three weeks or a month or next summer or whatever it is.

Nate Drolet  16:51

Yeah. No, and that's a really good one. It's funny, I had never, you know, I had never really seen that with dictating your beta until my friend or our friend Sarah Brengosz. We were climbing out in Hueco and she was trying Flower Power and we were all packing up. She's like, "Oh, I I left something back at the boulder. I'll be back."

Kris Hampton  17:10

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  17:10

 And we were kind of waiting for a bit and so I dropped back down. I walk over and I see her and she's holding up her iPhone and she's pointing just beyond the camera, so her hand and finger showed up in the actual video. 

Kris Hampton  17:22

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  17:22

And so she was like, "Okay, and here, I'm going to set the knee bar off of that foot." And she went through 

Kris Hampton  17:27

Is that your Sarah Brengosz voice?

Nate Drolet  17:29

That is exactly my Sarah Brengosz voice. 

Kris Hampton  17:33

Sarah we love you 

Kris Hampton  17:33

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  17:33

Oh, man

Nate Drolet  17:35

Very much. But I was like, "That's brilliant." And of course she like blush and turned red because she was like, "Ahhh, like, I didn't think anyone would see me."

Kris Hampton  17:43

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  17:44

 But it was amazing. Because then like, I mean, that was a very sequential boulder.

Nate Drolet  17:48

 Like, and she was like, "Well, I don't want to forget anything that I learned." I was like, "Yeah, that's great." And I've done it since. Like, I did it with The Giving Tree when I was here last year because I was like, "Well, I'm not going to be here for another year." So I just shot a video. Because I learned a few like minor subtleties with my hands and feet and just pointed out, I was like, "I want my hand there. Foot there, like tension here." And I think having the voiceover is really helpful. Because there are all those internal cues of like "Corkscrew with the leg", you know, or "Really compress your arms together when you cut here."

Kris Hampton  17:48

Yeah,

Kris Hampton  18:20

Yeah, and before, like, pre the time when everybody's phone had a ton of space, and you could make good videos, I would just dictate voice notes on projects, you know. Most of my first V10s were done that way 

Kris Hampton  18:35

With a cassette recorder?

Kris Hampton  18:36

Haha with a cassette recorder. No, you could make voice notes on your phone. They didn't take up as much space as big videos did. So I would just dictate the voice into a voice note on the phone, you know, and I was already used to doing that from writing songs. When a lyric could pop into my head, I would just dictate voice notes. And so it just transferred really easily into remembering small beta subtleties, you know, and, and I usee those to great effect. So, so it is important to do.

Nate Drolet  19:09

That's huge. Anything else you do to set your self up for success the next time?

Kris Hampton  19:17

Umm... make sure I've got frozen pizzas in the freezer.

Nate Drolet  19:23

Boom. That's important. Yeah, I one thing that I've actually picked up just in the last couple of months is when I'm finishing a session, I'll write down in my journal, what my plan is for the next session. Because it's fresh on my mind, and I know like I can say, "Hey, like I've done these links. Like warm up next time and fire this." Where if I wait and have to go back, I might like be like, "Well, I feel like this today or that." And I've just found like setting the expectations at the end of the session for what I'm doing next time has worked better for me than making the plan the day before or the morning of.

Kris Hampton  20:03

Yeah, you know. And while I was joking about the frozen pizzas, I do think I do think making sure that you're setting yourself up in a comfortable place to be able to try hard is really important. You know, and I talk about this a lot in The Hard Truth. We have some products coming out this winter that, that I think will help people make sure they have fewer excuses. But the fewer excuses you can give yourself, the better. You know, if I have the food, I know that I like to eat, if I have the things I know that I want already packed, I have fewer excuses, fewer things to stress about. For me, that's, that starts the success rolling as soon as I wake up. 

Nate Drolet  20:54

Yeah, no, I totally agree. 

Kris Hampton  21:00

At what point do you just give up? When you quit? When it projects too hard, how do you know?

Nate Drolet  21:06

 Oh, that's a great question. It's, I mean, there's a lot of experience goes into that. And if you're climbing with someone else who's more experienced than you, sometimes they can help you with that. Yeah. Like, I've had plenty of times where I'm like, "Ah I don't know." And a buddy was just like, "Hey, you know, stick with it. Give it another session. Keep trying."

Kris Hampton  21:23

Yeah, something Annalissa brings up pretty often when we're talking about projects is and actually it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to say

Nate Drolet  21:39

Haha

Kris Hampton  21:39

Is that she was working on a V7 in Hueco, and she could do all the moves, but not with a consistency that looked like it was going to work. Like it wasn't like one move she wasn't consistent on. It was kind of every move had some inconsistency. And after several days of not really making much progress, I said, "I think for you to send this you're going to have to get lucky. Like this trip, it's not going to come together in any sort of linear way."

Nate Drolet  22:18

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  22:19

"You're gonna have to be very lucky one day to put all these moves together." And and she, you know, she was upset about it, but realized it was the truth and moved on and  ended up having a really productive season after that. But it's fucking hard to say that.

Nate Drolet  22:39

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  22:39

And it's hard to take a step back when you're that person and be able to see "Oka, I don't have enough consistency on any of this, to think that I can ever link it together."

Nate Drolet  22:52

Yeah

Kris Hampton  22:53

. So it's a tough thing to see. And a tough, tough truth to have to tell yourself.

Nate Drolet  23:01

Yeah, you know, and it, it really depends on the situation of the climb too, because if it's, you know, if it's something local, you know, it doesn't have to be goodbye forever. Haha.

Kris Hampton  23:09

Right. Exactly. 

Nate Drolet  23:11

You you can come back to it. 

Kris Hampton  23:12

Yeah.

Nate Drolet  23:14

And it depends on what you want out of it. 

Kris Hampton  23:15

You two still have a future together. 

Nate Drolet  23:17

Yeah. You know, it could work out.....someday. With enough hangboarding

Kris Hampton  23:24

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  23:25

But, yeah, it depends on your goals. Like I've had times where I've intentionally projected something too hard, because I was getting stronger from it. And because, like I was learning from it. Like I used to do that when I was living in the South, like, when I was... even when I was climbing V7 and V8, like I would have a V10 I was projecting because... pretty much just as a limit boulder. I mean, that's all it really was. I was like, "Well, I can try these individual moves that are really hard. And I can do most of them. Or I could do all of them, but linking was impossible." And so I would just try that now and then like, you know, maybe I'll try it once every two weeks. And the cool thing was that like, at the time, I was like, "Well, my hands are getting stronger. And I feel more confident on hard moves, so I'll just take it." And now I can reflect back and be like, "Oh, that was just an occasional limit boulder session".

Kris Hampton  24:15

Yep

Nate Drolet  24:16

Which was also building confidence on hard moves and small holds. So it's not fair to say that it was only one thing that was benefiting me. But I think it's totally fine. Like you can keep it around and say, "Hey, like this is too hard now. Maybe it's early in the season. I'm gonna go climb some other stuff."

Kris Hampton  24:33

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  24:33

"I'll check back in for two days here in a month or two."

Kris Hampton  24:36

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  24:36

Or month or six weeks. 

Kris Hampton  24:39

Yeah. And also, if it's just starting to feel like a chore, and you're not psyched anymore and you're not having fun, quit, you know, move on.

Nate Drolet  24:50

I will say one thing to this. That is...I would say that's good advice as long as you're not a quitter. 

Kris Hampton  24:57

Sure, yeah. 

Nate Drolet  24:58

Because there 

Kris Hampton  24:59

I agree with that.

Nate Drolet  24:59

It is easy to fall into the trap of being like, "Ah, this feels like hard work"

Kris Hampton  25:03

Right.

Kris Hampton  25:04

If it's becoming a pattern of every boulder I try starts to feel like a chore and I'm gonna quit, recognize that pattern.

Nate Drolet  25:04

And it's like, man

Nate Drolet  25:13

Yeah, maybe go do some hard chores, just some really shitty work for a while and then you'll be like, "Oh, God, I can't wait to go like cut all my fingers open on this project."

Kris Hampton  25:21

Haha. Yeah, go cut some firewood for the fall.

Nate Drolet  25:23

Yeah, yeah. But that is just one, like, it's easy for us to justify to ourselves, like, "Hey, like, I'm into climbing for fun. Like, I don't want to do this."

Kris Hampton  25:34

 But yeah, that's true. For me, that's harder to justify. Like, I'm like, "I need to see this through."

Kris Hampton  25:40

You know. So it's harder to say, "I'm just not having fun on this anymore. Like, I'm gonna move on for now. And I'll come back to this once I'm psyched."

Nate Drolet  25:40

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  25:50

Yeah. Yeah. So you know, recognize what kind of person you are. Maybe ask friends. Look at your past patterns. 

Kris Hampton  25:57

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  25:58

You know, if you're the kind of person who

Kris Hampton  25:59

Look in the mirror.

Nate Drolet  25:59

Look in the mirror. 

Kris Hampton  26:01

Am I a quitter? 

Nate Drolet  26:02

Then say affirmations to yourself every morning, like Scott Adams. 

Kris Hampton  26:07

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  26:09

He told himself for years he was going to become a great cartoonist. Just 4am, every day

Kris Hampton  26:13

Haha it worked

Nate Drolet  26:14

 Yeah.

Kris Hampton  26:16

He also he also might have done some cartooning in that time.

Nate Drolet  26:20

Might have but uh, you know, who, who knows which one it was?

Kris Hampton  26:27

Haha. A question I often hear that's sort of related to the "When do I quit? When do I you know, throw in the towel?" is and we've, we've touched on this a little bit, but how do you know when you just need to get stronger?

Nate Drolet  26:50

Oh, that's a tough one.

Kris Hampton  26:52

It is tough. Because you could always get stronger. And I think you should always be trying to get stronger.

Nate Drolet  26:57

I think that's a good caveat. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  27:02

So it's tough to know, should I put this on the back burner, go get stronger, then come back to it. And ultimately, I think it comes down to weighing "Are you still having fun trying it? Are you still learning from it? Are you still willing to invest in it?" You know, you you have to weigh all those things out when that starts creeping in. As soon as you have the thought of "I need to get stronger to do this boulder.", don't let that be the sign of "Okay, I'm going back to training."

Nate Drolet  27:37

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  27:38

You know, like I said earlier, it's highly unlikely that you're not strong enough already.

Nate Drolet  27:43

If that was in your plan for the season. Yeah, and you know, and sometimes, man, sometimes you might just come in and you're like " Man I don't know what I was thinking." 

Kris Hampton  27:52

Yeah, totally

Nate Drolet  27:53

It happens occasionally. 

Kris Hampton  27:54

For sure it does. 

Nate Drolet  27:57

But, you know, it's tough, because I do think you should always be trying to get stronger to some degree. But, man, you can always fall back on that excuse. Like, "Eh, I'll just wait till I'm stronger", which for a lot of people can say, "I'm going to wait until I'm so strong that this is in my comfort zone."

Kris Hampton  28:15

 Right, that this is easy. I won't have to try hard. Yeah, totally. That happens often,

Nate Drolet  28:22

Yeah, I mean

Kris Hampton  28:23

"Saving it for the onsight"

Nate Drolet  28:25

"Saving it for the onsight". You know, I think almost anyone who's ever trained is guilty of this at some point. Because you know, you, you do some hangs, you do some like upper body training, and you skip all the leg days. And suddenly you're like, "Wow, I had a big boost in strength and power and performance. Like, this is cool." And then everything that you had tried, you're like, "Oh, I'm doing a lot better on it." So, you know, when you hit another roadblock you're like, "Well....

Nate Drolet  28:27

"Give me a dose of that rocket fuel"

Nate Drolet  28:33

Exactly, yeah, yeah. Like, "Can I just do that again?" I mean, that'd be sick. But, you know, you have diminishing returns with strength training. And at a certain, at a certain point, like, you're just gonna have to bite the bullet and say, "Hey, like, I'm probably strong enough. I need to keep getting better."

Kris Hampton  29:12

 Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  29:13

But it's, you know, it's hard to say. Like, honestly, it's one of those things that you kind of don't know until you try for a littlewhile. 

Kris Hampton  29:21

Yeah. And you're gonna struggle with it at some point in your climbing career. 

Nate Drolet  29:24

Yeah

Kris Hampton  29:25

Almost guaranteed.

Nate Drolet  29:26

But, you know, I think you made some really good points. Are you still having fun on it? Are you still getting better? Is it part of your big picture plan for the season? Like, if you thought, "Hey, I'm going to come out. I'm just going to kick the doors in. I'm going to take down this new V8 and then I'm going to have a great season from there." And if that V8 is suddenly taking you two months and you're halfway through the season, you're not having fun anymore, you know what it's okay to walk away.

Kris Hampton  29:51

Yeah, yeah. And if a project is like, you're investing so much of yourself in it that when you get home, you're in a foul mood and your relationship is suffering because of it, you know, be a quitter. Hahaha

Nate Drolet  30:07

Be a quitter ha. 

Kris Hampton  30:10

Just decide which one you want to quit, the relationship or the project.

Nate Drolet  30:12

Yeah. Yeah, no. So it's one of those things that if this is a true lifetime project, like that once in a lifetime, hey, like, you know, some of these things might not apply. But if you're just kind of punching the clock, like this is another season, you're just trying to keep getting better every year. Yeah, you know, assess, like, is this taking away from you being able to do other things and, you know, is it worth coming back to?

Kris Hampton  30:37

Yeah, you got other questions? 

Nate Drolet  30:40

Ummm

Kris Hampton  30:41

I got one more

Nate Drolet  30:42

Okay. No, I think we've covered a lot, we've covered all mine.

Kris Hampton  30:53

One thing I hear is this question that revolves around when is it okay for me to start investing in a big mega project? 

Nate Drolet  31:06

Ooooh

Kris Hampton  31:06

What's too soon? You know, I only climb V5, should I jump into a big giant project? And I think that's a good question. Because I think there's a lot to learn from it. And there's a lot of ways it can go south.

Nate Drolet  31:23

Yeah. Yeah. Man, you, you definitely see it. I think...ugh.... my opinion is, if you can hold off on mega projects as long as possible. Ugh...and that's kind of an absolute, so I still don't even like that statement......umm....

Kris Hampton  31:40

Haha. And I'll say this about if you're at the V5 level. And here I am jumping into absolutes, but. I oftentimes see people say, "This is going to be my mega project", and then accomplish it way faster than they expected. So I'm okay with giving a mega project a chance and applying that seven try rule pretty religiously. You know, am.... did I make progress today? If there are a couple days of no progress, back away from it for a while, you know, instead of just slamming your head against it. But oftentimes, I think people at at levels like below V8, maybe even up to you know V10, V11 don't really know what a mega project is. All they understand are mini projects, and they think those are mega projects. They take four or five sessions and they think "I just tried this boulder more than 10 times."

Nate Drolet  33:00

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  33:01

"That's crazy to me." So, so I think it's worth giving it a chance just to just to see, is it really a mega project or are you just blowing it out of proportion?

Nate Drolet  33:15

Okay. Yeah. And I could see that, especially with people who've never done it before. 

Kris Hampton  33:20

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  33:22

You know, when there's different certain circumstances. If you don't have climbing near you, and you know, you just have like, two short trips a year, or something like that, then, you know, a megaproject I mean, that could be just eating all your time every year. 

Nate Drolet  33:41

And people do it. Like, there are definitely people who do it. Like they will, you know, they pick out a boulder or route and they're just like, "Well, I'm gonna go try that for my two weeks of holiday. And I'll keep doing that for as long as it takes." And you know, it might take them six years. Yeah, like, we've seen it and it's fucking cool. Like, it's impressive when people do that, but, you know, it's, uh, it's good to recognize like, "Man, that might be a long, long investment."

Kris Hampton  33:41

Yeah. It's frustrating

Kris Hampton  34:08

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  34:09

So if climbs are far away from you, that's I think different. If you have a lot of climbing near you, like if you live somewhere. I mean, just like, if you live in the Southeast. To me, there's not a huge reason for megaprojects. 

Kris Hampton  34:22

Yeah

Nate Drolet  34:23

For a while at least because there is so much volume. You can keep climbing other things in a shorter amount of time. Learning new moves, getting stronger from these different styles and moves. You have so much that you can keep developing from that man I would try and kick that can down the road for a hot minute.

Kris Hampton  34:42

Yeah, and I would say if you are going to latch on to a mega project when you're at the V5, V6, below, maybe into V8, V9 range, don't don't be exclusive to that mega project. You know, dabble on some other things too. Try to send some moderates, you know, warm up on new things. Continue to climb on new things and don't just dedicate all of your time to that one project. I think I think dedicating all of your time to one big project can be really valuable. But there's a lot of downsides to it. And unless you've climbed a lot, and in a lot of places and have really shored your skills up in a great way, those downsides can be pretty disastrous.

Nate Drolet  35:40

Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. I think changing up different, you know, and this is something I think I've talked about with sport climbing, and with sport climbing, I would change between, onsighting to flashing to the second goes, quick ascents. And then eventually, I would just be like, "Man, I've done a lot of climbing. Like, I've done a lot of things quick, I really want to sink my teeth into something that's going to take me, you know, maybe 10 days or something like that" Which for sport climbing, for me feels like an eternity. 

Kris Hampton  36:07

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  36:08

And then by the time I'm done with that, I'm like, "Cool. Alright, let's move on. Let's go back. And lets do some quick things." You know, so changing things up. One thing that so there's one thing that I think is kind of funny. If you look in a lot of climbing media, like a lot of pros... I remember tere was a bunch of old, like, posts, like Daniel Woods at one point was like, "Oh, I tried Hypnotized Minds. It took me nine days." And this may not be the exact example. But he was like, "This is the longest I've ever tried a boulder." And I think it was Daniel and it was something like nine days. And I remember so many people were like, "Oh, I can't believe he only tried it, he's only tried to boulder nine days. That's ridiculous. You know, I've tried things, nine seasons." And in my mind. I'm like, "Well, he just put up Hypnotized Minds"

Kris Hampton  36:58

Right. Haha

Nate Drolet  36:59

"What are you doing?"

Kris Hampton  37:00

Haha

Nate Drolet  37:01

 You know?

Kris Hampton  37:01

 Sure.

Nate Drolet  37:02

And there's just fields of comments about how this is absurd that, you know, and I think, like, you know, with Nalle doing Burden of Dreams, that was multi season. And it was the same thing. People said the same thing about that. They're like, "Well, all these pros are not putting a genuine amount time in. They're only spending, you know, five plus days on a project on a new V15 and then they move on", you know, and it's like, "Well, are we really shitting on all the V15 climbers right now?" 

Kris Hampton  37:31

Right

Nate Drolet  37:31

 I think they're doing something right. 

Kris Hampton  37:33

Mm hmm.

Nate Drolet  37:34

 But they also get to travel the world climbing a lot of different styles. They have a limitless number of boulders they get to try, so they are unique in that sense. But I still believe that if you can keep from the super long mega projects for longer, the better off you're going to be.

Kris Hampton  37:50

 Yeah, and I, I agree with you completely. But there's also a counter argument to if you have the means to just travel all the time you want to, you could climb V5 forever.

Nate Drolet  38:05

Oh, and we see that. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  38:06

You know, so. So there comes a point. And you have to choose what that point is for yourself or you hire a coach to tell you. 

Nate Drolet  38:14

Yep, we do that. 

Kris Hampton  38:15

That it's time to step it up and start trying V6, V7, V8. 

Nate Drolet  38:20

Yeah. Volume for volume's sake.

Kris Hampton  38:23

There's always a caveat. 

Nate Drolet  38:25

Always. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  38:27

Yeah, we're we're almost two hours into this thing. 

Nate Drolet  38:31

Oh, God. 

Kris Hampton  38:31

And we're still on part one. So 

Nate Drolet  38:34

All right

Kris Hampton  38:35

Part two is gonna come down the road. This one may be split into part two... two parts as it is.

Nate Drolet  38:39

So it'll be a three parter. 

Kris Hampton  38:41

And the other one might be split in two parts. This could be a 24 part series, when we're done

Nate Drolet  38:47

This is its own unique podcast.

Kris Hampton  38:50

Exactly. So in the meantime, until Part Two arrives right there in your pocket supercomputer you all know how to find us if you need a coach to help you through your big mega project. At powercompanyclimbing.com. You can find us on the Facebook's, the Instagrams. You probably find pictures of us or something on Pinterest. And you could probably find people talking about us on the Twitter machine. You will not find us there because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles. 

PART 3 (Ep. 184):

Kris Hampton  00:31

What's up everybody? I'm your host Kris Hampton.

Nate Drolet  00:34

And this is Nate Drolet.

Kris Hampton  00:36

And together we form Nicole and Loskot

Nate Drolet  00:41

Oh okay, yeah. Fred Nicole, Klem Loskot. Classics.

Kris Hampton  00:45

Yeah. mostly known as 

Nate Drolet  00:47

Amazing boulderers. 

Kris Hampton  00:48

Yeah. And that's what we're talking about today. I figure I'd throw you a softball

Nate Drolet  00:53

I appreciate that.

Kris Hampton  00:53

Partly because I was drawing a blank on duos, that might stump you. 

Kris Hampton  00:57

Perfect.

Kris Hampton  00:58

 I have to do my research. But uh, today we're talking this is part two of our bouldering tactics conversation,

Nate Drolet  01:07

Part two, maybe part three, depending on if that first one gets split. 

Kris Hampton  01:10

Haha. Yeah, exactly.

Kris Hampton  01:12

And this is really interesting to me, we're talking about bouldering tactical tools, things you might bring with you, consider using to improve your bouldering. And there was this big push, a lot of years ago that bouldering was the most pure version of climbing.

Nate Drolet  01:32

"It's simple. You just go out with your shoes and chalk"

Kris Hampton  01:35

And your fans and your eight different kinds of tape and your skin files and your ladders and your ropes and gear and all the things. Bouldering has so many damn tools and so many damn rules. 

Nate Drolet  01:49

Yeah

Kris Hampton  01:50

It is far from the most pure style of climbing. But dammit, if it's not the most fun,

Nate Drolet  01:55

Oh, it's so fun.

Kris Hampton  01:57

Haha.

Nate Drolet  01:57

And the tactics like, you know, these tangible tactics that we are listing today, like, I think those are a real fun part of it. Yeah, like having this, having your toolkit all set to go.

Kris Hampton  02:06

Yeah, totally. And you know, it's up to you which of these tools you want to utilize.  Maybe you'll grow into the others. Maybe you abhor them forever.

Nate Drolet  02:16

 Yeah, maybe you'll just laugh at a lot of them. 

Kris Hampton  02:17

Yeah, totally up to you. But we're gonna kind of rapid fire through some of these tactical tools and talk a little bit on each category. We've sort of lumped them into categories here. And I think we start with the really obvious one, the the thing you kind of all need when you go bouldering, the first tool most boulderers buy are their crash pads. You know, so pads and how you're placing crash pads, but it's not as simple as it sounds on the surface. You don't just go buy a crash pad and that's all you ever do.

Nate Drolet  02:51

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot that goes into this. I'm a fan of investing in good crash pads. 

Kris Hampton  02:58

Yep.

Nate Drolet  02:59

 Like, just because you're falling on it. I've seen a lot of sprained and broken ankles, from people landing on bad crash pads, or crash pads that have been so worn out that they're bottoming out.

Kris Hampton  03:10

Or crash pads that are just placed poorly when they're bouldering. 

Nate Drolet  03:14

So yeah, it's it's bad that we have to say this, but placing crash pads well is very important. Like you can... some of the worst landings I ever see are, you'll walk up, there are 12 crash pads, and somehow there are 82 seams open and exposed.

Kris Hampton  03:29

Right. And they are all overlapped and, yeah. And you know, the way it should look, if you're new to bouldering or if you're new to placing pads with intention, you know, you should try to create a relatively flat, stable surface, that the climbers are going to land on. Anticipate the landings, you know. Which direction are they going to go, are they likely to go if they fall? Let's put pads there. Let's not leave, you know, an eight inch thick pad overlapping another right where someone might fall because it's a perfect place to land on the corner and roll your ankle. 

Nate Drolet  04:04

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  04:04

So try to keep the seams out of it. Try to fit them all together like a puzzle.

Nate Drolet  04:08

Yeah. And a good way to go with seams is you can also have what's called a slider pad. So this is generally about a one inch thick pad. Organic makes a huge one called a Blubber and Evolv makes a small one. I might be called the Ranger. I don't recall. It's a little bit smaller. I think if you're like, if you don't want to go for the huge Evolvand you just want something, I think the Ranger is a nice way to go. It's stiff. It's small. Yeah, it kind of you can cover enough of a seam that if you have and we talk seams and corners. If you imagine if you put four crash pads together that where they kind of make a crosshair, that middle hole, that is the most dangerous spot.

Kris Hampton  04:49

Yeah tends to open up. 

Nate Drolet  04:51

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  04:51

As soon as you land on the pads, they shift.

Nate Drolet  04:54

Especially there's a slight tilt to the landing, your pads are going to shift every time. So if you take one of these sliders, you put it over the seam, that gives you a little bit more protection. And what's really important with these too is, when you do fall, your pads are still going to shift. So make sure you kind of squish them back together.

Kris Hampton  05:12

Yeah, look under that slider occasionally and make sure you're not creating big gaps underneath it. 

Nate Drolet  05:17

Exactly. 

Kris Hampton  05:19

Yeah, and I think, you know, another really important thing is having a plan for if you need to move your pads

Nate Drolet  05:27

Ooh yes. 

Kris Hampton  05:28

You know, because it's, it's very easy to just grab a pad and throw it under the climber, wherever they're headed. And inadvertently leave a big gap there and not realize that you're that you're doing it. So have a plan if you're shuffling pads. You know, have a designated person who's going to shuffle that pad along and how they're going to place it and, you know, put some thought into this stuff. This is where you're landing and you're gonna wish you had thought about it if you roll your ankle.

Nate Drolet  05:58

Yeah, if you're the climber, it's your ankles. It's your responsibility to check your landing before you take off. 

Kris Hampton  06:05

Totally

Nate Drolet  06:06

This is something I see pretty often, people will just start climbing and hope that the pads will magically go to where they are supposed to, or where their boulder is going to climb. Don't put that on your friends. Don't put that on your climbing partners. Make sure everything's set. If a pad has to be slid, slid, tell people, "Hey, when I get this to this crimp, Take that purple pad. Bring it back here. You know, and then from there, I'm good. Don't worry about moving pads. It might look like I'm gonna overshoot them. But I'll land flat down on this."

Kris Hampton  06:35

 Yep.

Nate Drolet  06:36

 You know, have these talks, because this is what keeps you safe.

Kris Hampton  06:40

Yeah. There's a couple...I was just gonna....unless you have something else say about placing those pads, I was gonna say there are other ways to use the pads that we carry to the, to the crag as well.

Nate Drolet  06:51

Yeah. One more thing on placement. If you are on a hill, or if there's a big hole in the like in the landing, you can stack pads. So you might squish

Kris Hampton  07:02

Use a pad to fill the hole or level out the landing

Nate Drolet  07:04

Exactly.

Kris Hampton  07:05

A folded up pad oftentimes. 

Nate Drolet  07:06

Yep. So folded up pad, maybe a little briefcase, things like that. Like briefcase pads, I use more than anything. I don't hike them out personally, but when someone else's is around, they're really great for leveling out landings. 

Kris Hampton  07:19

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  07:19

So that all your pads aren't kind of going down a slope. You can kind of build the landing up to be flat by stuffing some underneath the top layer. 

Kris Hampton  07:26

Totally. Yep. That's a really good one. Yeah, and talking about stacking pads. That's another, you know, that's kind of where I was headed before. It's a great way to do all sorts of things. Check out higher holds, to, you know, brush, but it's also if it's a sit start and you're a smaller person, and you need to sit up a little higher or a stand start and you need to stand a little higher, you know, stack an extra pad at the start. That's a slippery slope. There are boulders where it can make the move way easier if that's the crux move. So you have to be cognizant of that. But, but don't discount the idea that maybe sliding another pad under you will set you up better to start the boulder.

Nate Drolet  08:12

Yeah. And because of erosion, which is a real thing, especially because of climbers, a lot of times landings get lower. So there are climbs that I've done a decade ago that now like I used to be able to pull straight off the ground and reach the start holds. Now I have to stack crash pads just to reach the start holds. Because they're popular, people have gone there, erosion happened. 

Kris Hampton  08:34

Yeah, totally. 

Nate Drolet  08:35

Another things beacuse you were saying stack pads. If you're a taller climber, or if a boulder starts really low, you can also use a slider 

Kris Hampton  08:42

A super thin pad. Yeah.

Nate Drolet  08:43

 And that's like those super thin pads are great for dabby sections. If you're climbing, you know, and a rock rises up and it's easy to dab or if there's a hard swing, instead of having a full pad, you can have a slider. 

Kris Hampton  08:55

Yep, totally. There's also a use for those smaller pads. I specially like those Evolv Rangers, if that's what they're called, I'm not positive.

Nate Drolet  09:04

Calling them that for now. 

Kris Hampton  09:05

I especially like those small thin pads to use as shade pads. 

Nate Drolet  09:10

Yeah

Kris Hampton  09:11

If the holds are getting direct sun on them and you want to keep them shaded for finagling a way, whether it's balancing it on a stick or carrying hooks or trad gear with you or something that you can use to set that pad up or just have someone hold it in place while you're climbing to block the sun on a hold or block the sun in your face. 

Nate Drolet  09:32

And that's a big one

Kris Hampton  09:33

Whatever. Hold up that pad to create shade for the climber. Super valuable thing to have in your arsenal.

Nate Drolet  09:41

Yeah. And you talked about using trad gear. People laugh at me for this, but I hike a rack of stoppers and a small like aid hook with me every time I go climbing. So I'll use that either for you know, like shade pads. But also if I'm climbing on something that has a really steep landing, then I'll have those and a long ratchet strap, and I'll fix my pads in place using the stopper, so that when I land on that pad, it doesn't go sliding down this steep hill. Especially if it's rock and it's slippery, like this is I do this a lot in Hueco. So I'll fix my pads in place, attach them together so that it's, you know, I don't have to take two falls, one hitting the pad in the second one where the pad slides down into, you know, a giant abyss.

Kris Hampton  10:24

Yep, totally. And I use a strap, to, you know, a ratchet strap to, to keep all my pads together while I'm hiking. You know, I strap a bunch of pads all together so that I can wear one giant backpack.

Nate Drolet  10:38

 Yes. 

Kris Hampton  10:38

And and that strap comes in really handy on landings where the pad might slide away, you know, and if you've got few stoppers and a hook, even better.

Nate Drolet  10:50

And you just said you hike a lot of pads in. So this is something I think is really valuable. Man, lots of pads. Like, it's hard to overemphasize how important it is to have a lot of crash pads. And big boulders, if you have good landings, suddenly, you can try so much harder. 

Kris Hampton  11:11

Exactly.

Nate Drolet  11:12

 Like, you know, fear of hitting the ground is a real thing. We can you know, if you only have two crash pads below you and you're like, "Oh, I hope I hit that one." Like, that's not fun. Like we were just joking the other day about how you know sometimes when you're doing tall boulder, you'll just slide a crash pad like a half inch one direction and you're like, "Oh okay"

Kris Hampton  11:30

It makes you feel so much better. 

Nate Drolet  11:31

Yeah. "Oh. Okay, I hope that works." You know, you fall maybe you're like, "Okay, I'll slide it a half inch back now." Man, it's so much nicer if you can just have four pads. Like, spread them out and feel safe. You're going to try harder, you're going to do better.

Kris Hampton  11:44

Totally. Alright, move on to our next one.

Nate Drolet  11:48

Yeah, it is a lot of pads. Haha

Kris Hampton  11:50

Haha. Okay. Brushes. 

Nate Drolet  11:53

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  11:54

A, you should always be fucking brushing. 

Nate Drolet  11:57

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  11:58

You know, I have a like, a theory, or not a theory. I don't have a theory. I would like to know, what actually happens when we constantly brush, you know, on different rock types and after people grab it and their skin oils are there. And I would love to know how that actually affects the rock. We think that it makes it better. And I think it probably does, but I would love to know for sure. Anyway, that's a side tangent. Brushes. Have several sizes with you. I carry like a big round sort of a brush that almost like a shoe polish brush with boars hair on it that I use for slopers you know, big big holds. I can brush a lot of surface area. And then I'll also carry some smaller tiny brushes to get into little slots or little crimps or little pockets or whatever.

Nate Drolet  12:53

Yeah, yeah, and, you know, thankfully, plastic brushes don't really exist anymore. That was...there was definitely a time where nylon brushes were really popular. 

Kris Hampton  13:03

Yeah. And they do work pretty well. Like those M16 brushes that are actually used for cleaning guns. 

Nate Drolet  13:08

Yes

Kris Hampton  13:08

That's why they are called M16 brushes. They work okay on tiny limestone pockets at like at Wild Iris. But I would never carry one bouldering

Nate Drolet  13:18

 Yeah, never use them on sandstone, ever. 

Kris Hampton  13:22

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. You have to be really conscious of the type of bristle and the type of rock because sandstone is softer. You can, if you've got a really hard bristle, you can dig a new hold into the rock.

Nate Drolet  13:36

Yeah, yeah. And that's that's a thing that happens. So you know, you've got horsehair, boar's hair. If you are really trying to level up your game, you got badger hair.

Kris Hampton  13:45

Haha.

Nate Drolet  13:47

But yeah, so use a natural hair brush. Different sizes, like what Kris said. Sick brushes. Super useful. Those are really nice. That's something that I honestly don't use nearly enough. But every time I'm around someone who has one, I'm like, "Oh, this is this is what I need to be doing."

Kris Hampton  14:05

Yeah, I carry a small extendable one with me that maybe only adds you know, four feet, five feet to my reach. But that's incredibly helpful for the size boulders I want to be climbing on. 

Nate Drolet  14:21

Yeah, I saw someone who had a... they got a replacement tent pole, like kind of a beefier tent pole, but just had I think maybe like four or five little extensions. So it snapped together. It collapsed, snapped together to open. It was a little bit more robust than you know, a little alpine tents. But that worked great. They just taped a little boar's hair brush on the end. And that was nice. I think it extended to probably seven feet or something like that. So that's a really nice, that's a nice way to have something that's not this huge, extendable pole that you keep with you.

Kris Hampton  14:54

Yeah, the one I keep is the leg of a small aluminum tripod that broke in Hueco. I wish I would have kept the other two legs actually so that I have three of these brushes. I'd  keep one in the gym, you know, and Annalissa can have one, I can have one. But I kept one leg and I think it's a really great small stick brush. 

Nate Drolet  15:16

Yeah. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  15:19

And I think I'll say this about brushes. Keep, you know, keep it in your, in your, like chalk bucket. Keep on on your, your chalk bag that, you know, you might wear around your waist. To what.... who was calling that a...I think it was Marina calling it a sport climber purse or something like that

Nate Drolet  15:40

Sport climber purse, yes, yes. 

Kris Hampton  15:41

Yeah. And, you know, if you're carrying one of those, have brushes in each of them. Because if you don't, if you have one brush you are  transferring from thing to thing to thing, you're going to end up in a situation where you wish you had a brush and you left it in your other chalk bag. 

Nate Drolet  15:57

Yeah. And brushing helps tremendously. It's a good way to break up rest times too. You know, stop, take off your shoes, brush, rest

Kris Hampton  16:07

And to be a good support crew. 

Nate Drolet  16:09

Yeah, totally. Like if you're climbing with a bunch of people and if if everyone else is brushing between goes or even worse, if no one is brushing between goes, you should be brushing between goes. 

Kris Hampton  16:20

Yeah, I also think it's worth if you're like the, the local and this is your home area and you want to be the steward. It's worth taking water out and cleaning up some boulders now and then. You know, brushing off the brushing off the holds with some water and get some of the caked in chalk and grime and oil out of there.

Nate Drolet  16:39

Yeah. And once again, depending on the rock, if it's soft sandstone, that's probably not a good idea. 

Kris Hampton  16:44

Yeah

Nate Drolet  16:44

But you know if you are granite or limestone. Although if you are bouldering on limestone, I'm sorry. You know, thank you for listening to the podcast.

Kris Hampton  16:51

Haha. Abstain from these activities.

Nate Drolet  16:53

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  16:55

Yeah. All right. Moving on. 

Nate Drolet  16:57

Oh, one last thing. 

Kris Hampton  16:58

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  16:59

Brush thumb prints. Like where your thumb catches. 

Kris Hampton  17:02

Yeah

Nate Drolet  17:02

For some reason, people don't do this.  They will brush where their fingers go, but never the thumbs. 

Kris Hampton  17:06

Yep, totally 

Nate Drolet  17:07

Brush where your thumbs go

Kris Hampton  17:08

Yeah, and if it's long boulder, brush the rests. 

Nate Drolet  17:11

Oh, yeah. People always forget that,

Kris Hampton  17:12

People forget the big holds. They don't they don't brush start holds.

Nate Drolet  17:16

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  17:16

C'mon man. 

Nate Drolet  17:17

Like the biggest holds that collect the most chalk for some reason never get brushed.

Kris Hampton  17:20

Brush the chalk. That should be the way it goes. Yeah, just brush all the chalk. And footholds. Brush the footholds. 

Nate Drolet  17:27

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  17:29

All right, moving on. Electrical Technology.

Nate Drolet  17:33

 Yes

Kris Hampton  17:34

Haha. This is this is a relatively newer thing in the bouldering world, I think and it's growing. But things like lights, that's where my first electrical technology came in. You know, if you're going to be bouldering at night, when the conditions are better, in dark little caves, you can get some LED lights that are pretty nice. And light, and you can.... no pun intended... and you can carry those around with you to make make things easier. You can spot the holds faster, you can, you know, just better. 

Nate Drolet  18:08

Yeah, and this allows you to climb in better conditions, have longer sessions, depending on what your schedule is. You know, maybe if you work nine to five, and it's the winter, sun goes down at around six. This allows you to climb for longer. So lights. A good, like a good headlamp helps.

Kris Hampton  18:25

Yeah. And I found that like if you have a good LED light, one thing you have to take into account is how the shadows are cast as you're climbing.

Nate Drolet  18:35

Yes

Kris Hampton  18:35

And a headlamp on low while you're climbing can offset those shadows quite a bit, especially for the hold you're going to, if like your shadow is cast across the hold when you move to it. If you're looking at the hold, which you should be, then your headlamp on low will sort of delete that shadow and light that space up.

Nate Drolet  18:56

Oh, cool. Yeah, I just I just bring like six led huge lamps.

Kris Hampton  19:00

Put them all around.

Nate Drolet  19:01

 There are no shadows.

Kris Hampton  19:04

Haha

Nate Drolet  19:04

You can't even see footholds because there's no perception anymore. There's no depth.

Kris Hampton  19:08

Haha. Yeah, so lights. What else we got?

Nate Drolet  19:13

We got fans.

Kris Hampton  19:14

That's a, that's a new one.

Nate Drolet  19:16

This is new technology. Shop fans. So they work off drill batteries. I cannot recommend this enough. I swear by mine. I bring mine to the gym now because

Kris Hampton  19:27

That's so funny to me haha. 

Nate Drolet  19:28

Oh man and people get a laugh out of it. Most of them are like "What is that?" and I'm like, "It's a shop fan. My skin's great right now."

Kris Hampton  19:34

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  19:35

But you know, I live in Houston. It's hot. It's humid.

Kris Hampton  19:38

Totally. 

Nate Drolet  19:40

And so for me, it's great like it keeps...so the reason you want a fan is air movements very important. A lot of people don't realize this, but if they don't live somewhere windy, but air movement can offset bad conditions in a very serious way. Helps dry your skin, keeps the hold feeling better. And this helps you sort of supplement that a little bit. So I'll go out, dry my hands before every single go on a boulder once I'm like at that project level for the day. And it's huge, like my skin because it's dry, it's gonna stay tougher. It's not going to split open. It's not going to cut and slough off as fast. 

Kris Hampton  20:18

Yeah, and  you're not greasing up the boulder.

Nate Drolet  20:20

You're not greasing up the boulder. I'm going to get more high quality goes. It's a one time investment. They're a little expensive. But you know, if you climb outside often enough. It's the other reason I bring into the gym too is because I'm like, "Well, I already paid for it. It's a rechargeable battery. Like, the only thing stopping me from bringing it in is my ego. So I'm just gonna bring it in."

Kris Hampton  20:41

Yep. And I think Tom O'Halloran from Baffle Days, which is an Australian climbing podcast, along with his daughter Audrey just recently did a fan review of bunch of bouldering fans.

Nate Drolet  20:56

Cool

Kris Hampton  20:56

And go it's the it's the best little review ever so 

Nate Drolet  21:00

Sick. 

Kris Hampton  21:00

I'll link to that in the show notes as well. Also heaters, you know if it's really cold, bring a heater and frankly, I if I'm bouldering I use the heater less for my hands, to warm up my hands

Nate Drolet  21:15

For feet 

Kris Hampton  21:15

More to warm up my feet and my shoes.

Nate Drolet  21:17

 I do the same.

Kris Hampton  21:19

 I think it's it's very overlooked that you want shoes that are at a you know, a little bit of a malleable temperature. They're gonna feel better on your feet. They're going to be more sensitive. They're going to conform to the holds a little better. So warm up your shoes.

Nate Drolet  21:37

Yeah, too cold and they get stiff and slippery. Yeah, that's a really good one. I will say this. I don't own one. I want one. If you're listening Black Diamond, send me one.

Kris Hampton  21:47

The heated chalk bag.

Nate Drolet  21:47

The heated chalkbag. Man, I was out climbing with a buddy who had one and it was cold. It was windy. I was miserable. I was really impressed. Like, I personally don't like to sport climb, when it's that cold. And this is more of a sport climbing tactic, but I was very impressed with it.

Kris Hampton  21:53

It could work on long boulders too, highballs when it's really cold and you don't want to numb out up there. 

Nate Drolet  22:10

Yeah

Kris Hampton  22:11

Give yourself some peace of mind.

Nate Drolet  22:12

Yeah, but yeah, I uh, you know, no sponsorship on that one. Just simply a fan of the electric chalk bag.

Kris Hampton  22:20

Yeah, totally. Any other electric technology you use while bouldering?

Nate Drolet  22:26

Um, ooh, not that I can think of.....

Kris Hampton  22:29

I know some people use like little. I can't think of what they're called, the Little gauges that are used in humidors

Nate Drolet  22:38

Oh, yeah.

Kris Hampton  22:39

 That tell you the humidity, the temperature?

Nate Drolet  22:42

 I totally forgot about that. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  22:43

All of that. And you also have some little laser that tells you the temperature of the holds, right?.

Nate Drolet  22:50

I do. I have a little laser gun. It tells me how warm any object is that I shoot. It's pretty good. Uh, I've used that more as a learning tool. 

Kris Hampton  22:58

Yeah

Nate Drolet  22:59

Like to see how fast walls cool down versus like when they're in the sun and when they get out. And it actually....I mean, while we're on the topic, one thing that really surprised me is rock itself doesn't cool down that fast. But if the ambient temperature around cools down, it ends up offsetting it a lot more than I would have ever thought.

Kris Hampton  23:20

 Yeah,

Nate Drolet  23:21

Like I definitely thought rock temperature made a much bigger difference. But it turns out just the air temperature and air movement, the amount of wind around you, really makes a massive difference and this was all this was done in Hueco two years ago. I had notes and things.

Kris Hampton  23:36

Haha. Notes and things 

Nate Drolet  23:38

But yeah I was kind of surprised by that. So but I have a little laser gun that tells me the temperature

Kris Hampton  23:44

Yeah, and I I'm fairly late to the technology game, so this is an area I haven't implemented a ton. I also recently saw a little personal air conditioners that are battery operated 

Nate Drolet  23:57

Yeah, we were talking about this via text and now I get advertisements on Instagram everyday for them.

Kris Hampton  24:01

Haha. So those those might come in handy in the future. Though they do add some humidity and if you're like me and your hands get too dry in the winter or in the just climbing in the West in general, my hands get pretty dry, it might be okay to add a little humidity into the situation along with some cool blowing air.

Nate Drolet  24:22

Yeah, I'm calling it right now. The future of rock climbing, people are going to build tents around boulders. Completely, hermetically seal them

Kris Hampton  24:31

Haha. It has probably happened.

Nate Drolet  24:33

And they're going to bring in

Kris Hampton  24:34

No COVID allowed 

Nate Drolet  24:35

No COVID allowed and they're going to bring in portable ACs

Kris Hampton  24:38

 Yeah. It could happen.

Nate Drolet  24:40

Yeah and climate control it. It's gonna happen 

Kris Hampton  24:42

And dehumidify it.

Nate Drolet  24:43

They're gonna have a humidifier as well. Yes, they're gonna have a swamp cooler and a dehumidifier. I don't know. I don't know the science on that one, but

Kris Hampton  24:52

Haha. All right, moving on with more tools. 

Nate Drolet  24:54

Okay.

Kris Hampton  24:56

Working tools. So if you're working on a boulder problem, what tools can help you in working it? One of the early ones ropes and gear.

Nate Drolet  25:06

Yep

Kris Hampton  25:06

If you want to rap down, brush holds, identify holds, tick holds, you know, work it on top rope. Bring a short rope, bring a little rack, whatever it is, you need to set up that top rope. 

Nate Drolet  25:22

Yeah

Kris Hampton  25:22

 I think that's and you know, if you want to, you know, there's all sorts of ways you can solo top rope boulders to work them out. So whether it's a mini traction or a Grigri or an ascender setup somehow, figure out your system to work on the boulder.

Nate Drolet  25:42

Yeah. And that can be a good way too if you don't have a ton of crash pads and you want to try something tall. That can be a nice way to go test something out or just, you know, if you're going to go say, "Hey, is this project worth my time? It's really tall. I'm going to go check that out." Maybe you maybe you find out "That's a little scarier than I want to do." or it's "Well, I think I can dial this in enough."

Kris Hampton  26:04

Totally.

Nate Drolet  26:05

Good tool, for sure. 

Kris Hampton  26:08

And then there are also other ways to work on the tops of boulders. This something I have not used myself, but I've definitely considered getting a little collapsible ladder. 

Nate Drolet  26:18

Yeah

Kris Hampton  26:18

That you can just stuff in your crash pad and carry out to the boulders with you.

Nate Drolet  26:23

It sounds silly. But man, it's a good one. Justin Silas, who was on the podcast. He only has peripheral vision. He doesn't have vision directly in front of him. And he said, like he was saying telling us his ladder is like his best tool. He's like, "No question. I get up I feel all the holds, I can feel positions." You know, I was listening. I was when we're I think we're just like sitting eating lunch one day at CWA. And I was like, "That actually makes a lot of sense. Like I'm not blind, but I think I could do that too. It'd be really nice to know exactly where I'm hitting holds."

Kris Hampton  26:55

 Yeah, totally. 

Nate Drolet  26:56

And the little collapsible ladders are getting pretty nice too.

Kris Hampton  26:58

And you see a more and more often in the videos of the hardest boulders out there.

Nate Drolet  27:02

Yeah

Kris Hampton  27:03

You'll see a little collapsible ladder in the background that they've used to work it out, chalk holds, brush holds whatever.

Nate Drolet  27:09

Yeah, ooh pull on from a high start too.

Kris Hampton  27:12

Exactly

Nate Drolet  27:12

Like, if it's long enough, you can pull on from 10 feet. Have your friend pull the ladder out of the way. 

Kris Hampton  27:17

Yep

Nate Drolet  27:17

Boom. No more punting.

Kris Hampton  27:19

Yeah, you can also you know, if you're not carrying a ladder, we've already mentioned this a little bit. But it's worth mentioning here, stacking pads to pull on higher on a boulder. And then having your spotter move the pads out of the way, so that you're not landing on a stack of pads. 

Nate Drolet  27:36

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  27:37

 But that's a really helpful tool to skip some of the moves you already know you can do, save the energy, save the skin, work out the higher moves. And other tools, these should go without saying but like tick marks. Consider using tick marks. There needs to be a universal way. I think we've talked about this before.

Nate Drolet  27:58

Pointer fingers

Kris Hampton  27:59

Tick the pointer finger.

Nate Drolet  28:00

Ugh

Kris Hampton  28:01

 If you're going to use goalposts, fine. Tick where the pointer and the pinky goes

Nate Drolet  28:06

Rookie stripes. 

Kris Hampton  28:07

But let's let's stop ticking the middle of the hold.

Nate Drolet  28:11

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  28:12

You know, because you don't know exactly where to hit it in that case, so let's all tick the pointer finger. Let's let's do that. 

Nate Drolet  28:19

And ticks don't need to be big, like the way I tick, especially when I'm on sport climbing 

Kris Hampton  28:23

At least no bigger than three feet

Nate Drolet  28:25

No bigger than three feet. We need standards. That's I think that's roughly a meter, for everyone else in the world, we're really trying to help you guys out here and do some conversions on the show. Whenever I'm taking, I'll just chalk my thumb and put a little dot next to a hold. Like it's great for like you're doing that for footholds. For handhold sometimes if it's over a bulge, it needs to be a little longer, but you really don't need huge tick marks. 

Kris Hampton  28:51

Yeah. And brush and when you're done. 

Nate Drolet  28:54

Yeah, brush when you're done, 

Kris Hampton  28:55

Get rid of them. Also, power spots 

Nate Drolet  28:59

Huge. This is I think one of the least utilized tools. Like bang for your buck...its...power spots are so helpful. And I just don't think they're used enough.

Kris Hampton  29:10

Yeah, whether it's just pushing you into position so that you can start in one of those like pre tensioned positions that it's hard to set up in unless you do the setup moves, you know power spot might help you start in that position. It can help you learn the path of movement between holds for a move that you can't do just yet. You know take a little bit of weight off, a little power spot. You know whether it's lower back or by your shoulder blades, something like that, holding you and helping you through the move. Super useful tool that I don't see getting used enough.

Nate Drolet  29:46

It can help you with like committing moves. 

Kris Hampton  29:48

Yep

Nate Drolet  29:48

Like if you're if it's something like you're in a roof, you set a heel hook and you have to throw way behind your head. 

Kris Hampton  29:52

Yep.

Nate Drolet  29:54

 I'll see people all the time and this was me for sure, liike on a boulder in Hueco where I would try this move and I would, hesitate every time until finally I had a friend. I was like, "Hey, just take, I don't know. 50 pounds off of me."

Kris Hampton  30:06

 Yeah.

Nate Drolet  30:07

 Like and I went back and reached and I was like, "Okay", I was like, "Okay, now take like five pounds off of me." Did the same thing. And then, actually what I did next was I stacked like three pads below me. 

Kris Hampton  30:17

Mm hmm. 

Nate Drolet  30:17

So I intentionally

Kris Hampton  30:18

So you only fall a little bit. 

Nate Drolet  30:19

Yeah. And I intentionally just whiffed it. I was like, "I'm gonna take the backsplat." I took it and I was like, "Oh, okay." I took the pads and never missed the move again, because I just knew I could go confidently.

Kris Hampton  30:30

Yeah, you had a similar situation on a V11 I did last spring. The first move was scary to me because I didn't want to fall with that heel in that wasn't going to come out.

Nate Drolet  30:40

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  30:40

It was an insecure hold I was going to and I had to get a power spot the first few tries just so I knew the position, knew where I was going, knew I would get there. And then I just never missed the move.

Nate Drolet  30:51

Yeah. You know, in our first first part of this series, in part one, I talked about Western Gold, and tactics of going out there. And power spotting, I think was the reason I was able to do that boulder in a session. I was out with a buddy and you pretty much pull on from head height that's around where the start hold is. And there are a lot of slopers that are just really unique. Like they have these kind of subtle dimples and waves through them. And every time I would climb, I'd hit him differently. So at a certain point, I was like, "Hey", like I was climbing with my buddy Drexel. So I was like, "Can you just boost me up? I'm going to take time and like, find where every single subtlety is"

Kris Hampton  31:26

 Totally.

Nate Drolet  31:27

And you know, he boosted me for maybe 20, 30 seconds. And like, I mean, I was still like, holding some of my weight. But yeah, I found all the subtleties. Suddenly, I was linking through, falling on like the last move. 

Kris Hampton  31:39

Yep

Nate Drolet  31:39

Like, and that was for me massive. Like, I don't know, if I would have found those subtleties, and been able to really pick out what was what, nearly as quickly. It might have taken me another hour. And I probably would have been too tired to send the boulder.

Kris Hampton  31:52

Yep. For sure underutilized. Use it. Moving on. Video, I guess this is an electrical technology we could have talked about. 

Nate Drolet  32:03

I was thinking that but it's on its own kind of 

Kris Hampton  32:05

Yeah. And video can be used a lot of different ways. You know, first, collecting beta, for whatever the project is, if you want to do that. We talked about this a little bit in the the first part of this, but you know, get the beta, screen record it to your phone so that you have the beta you can then compare, right there at the boulder. If you want to. Not everybody wants to.

Nate Drolet  32:29

Yeah, yeah, one thing. I showed this to a bunch of people like you can like on if you have an iPhone, you have the swipe up toolbar. 

Nate Drolet  32:37

And you can go into your general settings and make screen recording on that so that if you see good beta on Instagram, Facebook, whatever. I don't know who's posting beta on Facebook anymore. But Instagram, I don't know maybe

Kris Hampton  32:37

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  32:49

it's not good beta

Nate Drolet  32:50

Maybe there'll be beta on Tik Tok someday. Who knows? Either way, instead of having to save the post or like, try and memorize from the story, just swipe up, hit the screen record and then let it play through. Amazing.

Kris Hampton  33:04

Yep, I use it all the time. And then of course videoing yourself, you know, video your attempts. 

Nate Drolet  33:12

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  33:13

It is great to say, "You know, oh, I was this close to that hold that I can really can't spot while I'm doing the move." You know, learn those types of things. Be able to see what's happening when you're doing a movement, and it often looks different than you think it does.

Nate Drolet  33:28

Oh, yeah. You'll be like, "What the fuck is my leg doing? Like, what is that? Like why is it kicking out?"

Kris Hampton  33:33

 Yeah. So videoing yourself, reviewing that while you're climbing, can really speed up the process in a big way. 

Nate Drolet  33:39

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  33:40

And I'll also say if you're someone who's utilizing video often while you're at the boulders, bring a little rechargeable battery with you. 

Nate Drolet  33:46

Yes. 

Kris Hampton  33:47

Important to have.

Nate Drolet  33:48

Yeah. And this is one of those things easy win, like kind of the only reason not to do it is like ego. Like, you know it, it's weird, like videoing yourself. Like I think videoing yourself in the gym is a great way to go too. I mean, it's the same thing like you're trying to move better, learn. Like this is a great way to accelerate that. So bring a little tripod. We even have our little like mini stands.

Kris Hampton  34:11

Yeah. And those will be in a kit that we have coming out that hopefully will be available when this is airing. And you know, takes the finagling of setting the phone up in your shoe to get it right, especially if you want the horizontal shot, which let's be honest, landscape is the way to go. 

Nate Drolet  34:29

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  34:31

If you're looking for that, these little stands really help make it an easy situation.

Nate Drolet  34:36

One more thing on video, shoot from different angles. 

Kris Hampton  34:39

Yep.

Nate Drolet  34:40

 Everyone always shoots from directly behind 

Kris Hampton  34:42

And everyone gets the same shot. 

Nate Drolet  34:44

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I guess if we're also just posting and sharing, it's fun to have different angles too. Be creative.

Kris Hampton  34:49

I want all the angles when I'm trying to gather beta

Nate Drolet  34:51

That's the truth. But shoot different angles just for your own assessment. Like shoot from directly to your side. Like if you want to see how far your body is away from the wall or how close it is, all these different things. Like you might think, "Oh, that moves really, really far for me." But if you suddenly see from the side that your body's bowing really far from the wall whenever you're doing it, it's like, "Oh, well, if I stay tucked in a little more, then maybe I can get to it." Or maybe a swing seems really wild to you. You know, you're like, "Oh, I hit this hold, but I just swing off like crazy." When you shoot from the side, you might realize, "Oh, I'm staying so tucked in that when I hit that hold, my body has so much room to swing. If I can start further out and come just vertically to the hold, I won't have anywhere to swing."

Kris Hampton  35:37

 Yep.

Nate Drolet  35:37

 So shoot different angles.

Kris Hampton  35:39

Yep. Use the videos, learn the things.

Nate Drolet  35:42

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  35:43

Take a break. Come back, wrap it up?

Nate Drolet  35:44

 Take a break. 

Kris Hampton  35:45

All right. What's up everybody? Kris here. I wanted to tell you about our two newest products designed to make you more efficient, more organized and reduce your excuses. First two major components of our Essential Elements line the Crag Kit and the Boulder Bag. Crag Kit is a collection of items that are a must have for every climber. We filled it with a special skin file designed just for climbers, nail clippers and detail skin clippers that actually clip, as well as our Circuit Tape and necessary products from Tension and Rhino Skin. All in a water resistant case, we've partnered with So Ill to design, with a built in, zippered mesh pocket and a removable mesh pouch. I won't even go climbing without mine. We designed the Boulder Bag also in collaboration was So Ill to solve the problems created by shoving backpacks into your crash pad or strapping them to the outside. It's a messenger style bag that unfolds like a saddle bag that lay flat and your crash pad. No more bumps. No more soft spots in your foam. We made it roomy enough for everything you need. But simple enough that you won't be tempted to take too much shit. Plus, it just looks sexy when you're going to the gym. Game changer. You can find these at PowerCompanyClimbing.com/essential-elements or click on the link in your show notes in your pocket supercomputer. Alright, back to the show. 

Kris Hampton  37:08

All right, we are back with a bouldering tactical tool that is near and dear to your heart, which is shoes and all things sticky rubber.

Nate Drolet  37:21

Yes. Shoes, knee pads, hand jammies,

Kris Hampton  37:25

Hand jammies. Come on. Keep that shit out of your bag. 

Nate Drolet  37:28

All rubber tactics.

Kris Hampton  37:31

Hahaha

Nate Drolet  37:33

Yeah, shoes. This, you know this something I think can easily be overdone. But a little bit can go a long way.

Kris Hampton  37:40

You think shoes can be overdone? 

Nate Drolet  37:41

I'm trying to put on a good face here.

Kris Hampton  37:43

That surprises the hell out of me that that would even come out of your mouth.

Nate Drolet  37:45

I don't actually believe that.

Kris Hampton  37:47

Haha

Nate Drolet  37:49

 So generally speaking with shoes, I think it's good to have just your normal daily workhorse, like something that's comfortable that you can do most things in. But no shoe is perfect. Like I've always laughed at shoe reviews that are like, "Oh, this is great for smearing and toe hooking and heel hooking and edges and steep climbs and slabs." It's like "No, it's not."

Kris Hampton  38:12

Haha

Nate Drolet  38:12

Like there's no such thing and any good shoemaker will tell you that. Anyone with any shoe brand will tell you, "No there's not a shoe that is great for edging and smearing." Like,

Kris Hampton  38:24

Right. There are all around performing shoes, but none that really excel in every category at once.

Nate Drolet  38:31

Totally. So I think having a workhorse that is good in most things. Maybe it lends itself to your particular style. Like if you're really heel hook dominant, maybe your shoe isn't the aggressive, isn't the best at toe in. But it's really good for heels. 

Kris Hampton  38:48

Yeah

Nate Drolet  38:48

And same thing like if you're really just like good at toeing in and you like toeing in, like sideways, like "koala feet," like Kris likes to say, then maybe you have a shoe that's more asymmetrical and toe dominant. 

Kris Hampton  38:58

Yeah, 

Nate Drolet  38:58

Like big toe dominant. So you find a good and hopefully it's kind of a robust shoe too. So you know, it will last you a while. So that's gonna be your daily workhorse. And then from there, you kind of expand out. So you want to make sure you have something that can heel hook well, that can toe hook well, if these are things you need to do. Maybe a softer shoe and then like a stiffer shoe. Like something for when you are going to climb hard technical boulders or just stand on tiny little edges that you can pop this on. So rather than saying, "Oh, I need a shoe that can do everything.", you know, you have your one shoe that does most thing,s like 90 90% of things well

Kris Hampton  39:37

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  39:38

And then, you know, like I used to have a lace up, a really stiff lace up shoe. I maybe pulled it out 10 times a year, max. I mean, that shoe lasted me like four years because of it. So it can seem weird to have a lot of shoes, but you know, three, four pairs total. Like I think that can really work, well round make you will really well rounded for all different situations.

Kris Hampton  40:04

Yeah, in reality, Nate carries one of those, like, over your closet door shoe caddies that that holds 42 pairs of shoes. 

Nate Drolet  40:14

Yes

Kris Hampton  40:14

Nate carries that when it goes bouldering

Nate Drolet  40:16

Facts. 

Kris Hampton  40:16

Yeah, a shoe for every situation. How often have you worn two different shoes for a boulder? 

Nate Drolet  40:23

Oh, I mean, how often have I gone bouldering?

Kris Hampton  40:26

Haha.

Nate Drolet  40:28

Yeah,

Kris Hampton  40:30

Yeah, I haven't done it a ton. But as I've gotten into harder boulders, I've, I've gone that direction more and more. Because I'm finding that, you know, for instance, when I did The Giving Tree, I had found beta that I could use that you kind of throw this ninja kick into a toe hook that made it made the finish far more....wat's the word I'm looking for.... consistent for me. I could do it way better than I could do the heel hook version. And I had recently started using the Evolv Phantoms.

Nate Drolet  41:16

 Yep. 

Kris Hampton  41:17

And I really liked the heel on them. It's a more sensitive heel. For the first move of the boulder, I could do that move more consistent with that heel. But then the finish I needed to toe hook and I don't tell hook in the Phantoms as well as I do in the Agros 

Nate Drolet  41:33

Yeah

Kris Hampton  41:33

So I had this like mental battle of a really want the heel for the first move, but I really want the toe for the finish move. Yeah, so I just had to decide where do I want to compromise. And I ended up wearing an Aggro on my right foot, a Phantom on my left, so that I still had the toe I like on the Phantom and the the toe hook that I like for the Aggro. 

Nate Drolet  41:57

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  41:58

And I think you have to make those decisions when you're when you're getting into harder and harder boulders for you.

Nate Drolet  42:06

Yeah, it's, you know, and it can seem silly. Like it can feel like making an excuse of like, "Oh, I can't do this because of my shoe." But I mean, it's it's true. Like there are some shoes that are just really really good at heel hooking and not much else. And yeah, like that's fine. Like there, there are boulders that if you can just heel hook really well, you can do the whole boulder.

Kris Hampton  42:30

Yep totally 

Nate Drolet  42:31

Everything else doesn't really matter.

Kris Hampton  42:34

And the other sticky rubber piece of technology that we have has, has recently been.... I mean, the the game has been changed by Send Climbing, frankly.

Nate Drolet  42:46

Yeah

Kris Hampton  42:47

Knee pads have been around a long time. But Send really stepped up the knee pad. And as far as I know, it's the gold standard now. And you know, there's it's joking that those kneepads have downgraded a lot of boulders, but it's not really joking. I mean, a lot of moves can be made a lot easier with the Send pads. And recently, I sat down and talked with Eric Jerome and Max Zolotukhin. And you may have heard that episode already, by the time you're hearing this one, but Max mentions his current project needs three knee pads. And I was like, "Uh You only have two knees. Explain to me how that works.", you know? And he's stacking kneepads to get a bigger shindex.

Nate Drolet  43:37

 All three on one leg. 

Kris Hampton  43:39

Yeah, exactly. And I mean, why not?

Nate Drolet  43:42

Yeah, I mean, there are no rules. Like...yeah and knee pads, I think are a good way to go. It's... I really like the Send, like the ones that you can kind of strap on over your blue jeans versus like a slide on pad. 

Kris Hampton  43:59

Yeah

Nate Drolet  43:59

Slide ons can be nice for like for sport climbing, but you end up having to like kind of duct tape them. But with bouldering, being able to just pop it on and off really quick is nice. Because you can say, "Oh, that looks maybe like a knee bar. I'll give it a try." You just throw it on. Try it. And if it works cool. If not, you just take it off. It's not this huge process of trying to slide a neoprene sleeve over your pants or onto your leg.

Kris Hampton  44:24

Yeah. Can we also can we talk about the elephant in the room here, the misnomer? Because they're not actually kneepads. 

Nate Drolet  44:35

Oh, yeah

Kris Hampton  44:36

I see a lot of people who think that knee bars actually involve your knee.

Nate Drolet  44:42

Yeah, like they think it's supposed to be on the very end of your leg, like on the top of your patella sorta

Kris Hampton  44:46

Yeah, well, it's actually a thigh pad. 

Nate Drolet  44:49

Yes, 

Kris Hampton  44:50

You know and, and don't get trapped into wearing it one specific way. You know, I did a I did a boulder this spring that I wore it 100% on the inside of my thigh. 

Nate Drolet  45:02

Yeah

Kris Hampton  45:02

And used it just to clamp down, you know, like some ThighMaster shit on this boulder. And that allowed me to do a move that I found really, really hard before. So, you know, don't be trapped into the one way but Send Climbing if you're listening. I think we should take the initiative to call these things thigh pads,

Nate Drolet  45:26

Thigh pads. Let's just go a step further. They are the thigh masters

Kris Hampton  45:29

Thigh masters. Totally.

Nate Drolet  45:32

Yeah, knee pads, man, they're they've changed the game. Whether you like it or not.

Kris Hampton  45:38

Yeah, and and I'll say this as well about the sticky rubber components here. Clean your rubber.

Kris Hampton  45:44

Oh, how did I....yes

Kris Hampton  45:46

Don't just walk through the dirt and then step on. It's not only going to decrease your performance, it also is going to get dirt all over the footholds

Nate Drolet  45:55

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  45:56

And shout out to tension climbing because they've they recently released a shoe spray. Our our Crag Kits that we've mentioned, have a Tension shoe spray sample in them. So give that stuff a try. I'm a skeptic of all things.

Nate Drolet  46:16

I can vouch for that. 

Kris Hampton  46:17

I'm like, "There are no better things made." And you were with me on The Giving Tree one day. I couldn't get the heel to stick.

Nate Drolet  46:25

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  46:26

I was like, "I guess I'll try this Tension shoe spray that doesn't actually work."

Nate Drolet  46:31

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  46:31

And I sprayed my heel. I followed Will's instructions. Cleaned it off. Heel stuck first try. 

Nate Drolet  46:38

Yeah, and every try after 

Kris Hampton  46:40

Now I believe. You know, so I keep a little bottle of it with me. I clean the rubber off. What did they say it does?. .. It... I almost said dlaminates, but that's not what it does.

Nate Drolet  46:55

Umm....I have a word my head but it's got to be wrong, so I don't know.

Kris Hampton  46:57

It de-something's the rubber.

Nate Drolet  46:59

Yeah, deoxidizes?

Kris Hampton  47:01

Hmm...Let's go with that. 

Kris Hampton  47:03

I don't think that's the word, but let's go with that.

Nate Drolet  47:03

Oh god.

Nate Drolet  47:04

Yeah, it's definitely definitely wrong. 

Kris Hampton  47:06

But it makes it feel like new, that sticky feeling that your rubber has when it's new. It's fresh out of the box. It feels just like that.

Nate Drolet  47:13

Yeah. But as an absolute minimum wipe off your shoes. 

Kris Hampton  47:17

Yeah. Totally.

Nate Drolet  47:19

I can't say this enough, like, clean your shoes well. Like that is.... you can put so much more weight through your feet and through your hands. And people are so diligent about how they want to take care of their hands and their skin and they want to train their fingers to be really strong. And then they just go fucking sauntering through the mud up to their boulder.

Kris Hampton  47:37

Yeah. I will tackle a fucker if you walk up to the boulder I'm trying, through the mud. 

Nate Drolet  47:44

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  47:45

 You're not getting on.

Nate Drolet  47:46

Wipe off your shoes.

Kris Hampton  47:48

 Alright, speaking of taking care of your skin, that is our next category, skin tools. This includes all the files, clippers, all the things you would use for your skin. What do you carry?

Nate Drolet  48:03

I, I carry a file. I carry us a clipper as well, kind like a straight edgeed one. I use both of those. And I mean, I guess my fan is kind of for my skin as well.

Kris Hampton  48:16

 Yeah, totally. 

Nate Drolet  48:17

Um, yeah, as far as like what I carry out, that's the bulk of it for me. And so Kris, why would I need fingernail clippers or a file for my skin?

Kris Hampton  48:27

Well, I mean, A, you'd need fingernail clippers for your nails, first off. So I carry two kinds of clippers and our Crag Kit actually has two, the same two clippers I carry, which is one for my nails, one for my skin. And it's a straight edge clipper that allows you to clip off little pieces of skin that have torn away or, you know, a little burrs on your skin so that it doesn't catch on a hold and tear even more. 

Nate Drolet  48:55

Yes

Kris Hampton  48:55

You want to try to keep that smooth surface area on your skin for better contact with the hold so that your skin doesn't continue tearing. And just kind of get a new layer of skin on things. So I carry the two types of clippers and I carry a file, which we feel like we have the best shaped file ever 

Nate Drolet  49:21

In the game 

Kris Hampton  49:22

Created. And you know, to be totally fair, there was a company called Burned By Wood, I think was the name of it 

Nate Drolet  49:29

Sounds right. 

Kris Hampton  49:30

And he had sent me a few skin files. You've seen them in videos with Adam Ondra. He's always filing his skin away with these things. And and when I reached back out to that company, he had decided not to continue. So I reached out to him last year and said "Hey, can I take your shape of this skin file and and try to recreate it?" and he was like, "Yeah, go for it, you know?" So we've modeled ours after that shape. And, and put kind of a heavy grit that I think is is best. We also have a medium grit. But the grit that I really like, feels a little too gritty at first, but then I ended up going to it every single time. So we have that skin file also in our Crag Kits.

Nate Drolet  50:24

And they're really cool looking too

Kris Hampton  50:25

They are cool looking. And it has you know, it's got a rounded edge that you can fit into the creases in your skin better. It's also got a sharper edge if you really need to get in there. And it's got big broad areas that are a little rounded instead of instead of just a flat file, which I don't find as useful.

Nate Drolet  50:46

Yeah, same. So a few more things on files just real quick. So if you have like a splitting your seam or split anywhere, it's really important that you file those down. Or if you want your skin to heal faster, you don't want like kind of dead skin hanging around. 

Kris Hampton  51:03

Yeah, you don't want a really sharp edge. 

Nate Drolet  51:05

Yes, exactly the sharp edge, like a split. Or even like big thick calluses, when they get too hard, those can all catch and rip. And then like those splits aren't going to heal very fast unless you can kind of smooth them out, get all the dead skin off the sides that's really dried up. 

Kris Hampton  51:24

Yep

Nate Drolet  51:24

Get that away. And so I use this also at the end of a bouldering session, I'll kind of go over my skin. If I have some like a little bit of damage, smooth it all out, make it even so that when it heals, it heals as an even layer again.

Kris Hampton  51:36

Totally. Yeah, and I think, you know, some some things that other people carry. Like I see a lot of people carrying a Dremel tools will sander on the end. And those can be really effective. They seem like "Oh, I'm doing a lot less work." I'm not personally.. I'm not a fan of the heat that's generated

Nate Drolet  51:57

I was about to say I've gotten burned

Kris Hampton  51:59

Like when they're moving that fast. 

Nate Drolet  52:01

Yeah

Kris Hampton  52:01

Not a not a big fan of that on my skin, when I'm trying to keep my skin cool, I don't want to heat it up a ton. So when I use a file, I use it pretty slowly. Instead of filing super fast and aggressive.

Nate Drolet  52:13

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  52:16

Also sprays for your skin. Some people use Rhino Dry during sessions. I get too dry. So this past season, I used water. I would just spray water on my hands. Get some moisture in there, then chalk up and climb. And I found I could hold the slippery pinches much better if my hands had a little moisture than being too dry.

Nate Drolet  52:41

Yeah, there's a certain level of moisture that you need. And if you're in a dry environment, or if you use something like Rhino Skin or Antihydral that dries your skin out. If you went too far, you might actually have to have to moisten your skin back up. Because otherwise everything's gonna feel really slippery, like light bulbs. Like people who dry fire a lot, most often they have just very dry skin.

Kris Hampton  53:08

 Yep, totally.

Nate Drolet  53:09

 So yeah, those are really big. Another one is liquid chalk. 

Kris Hampton  53:13

Oh, yeah. Yeah, 

Nate Drolet  53:14

If you're doing a really long boulder, or if you're going to, like honestly, I like using it to start my day. So before I start warming up, I'll put some on. It feels like it just kind of gets me a starting coat. But yeah, liquid chalk or what is it...like Strong Grip? Tight Grip.

Kris Hampton  53:36

Hmm I've never used it.

Nate Drolet  53:37

Yeah, Chris Lindner was sponsored by it because I remember all these like goofy ads in climbing magazines. But it's like a hand antiperspirant. And it's not chalk based at all. But you put it on, let it dry for a little bit and then you can chalk over it. And I found that works. I prefer it for sport climbing. Because with bouldering I feel like your contact points are so small like in your fingertips that kind of rubs through. But with sport climbing, it's fantastic. Like I feel especially like lower in my hands for jugs and stuff, it keeps my hands really just good and dry and tacky for you know, at least for the first three, four pitches of the day.

Kris Hampton  54:20

Cool. Yeah, I've never used that stuff. Also sunscreen. I mean, if you're if you're in a place where you're going to be baked and you're one of those people who doesn't boulder in the shade, which I don't know why you'd be one of those people.

Nate Drolet  54:33

Boulder in the shade

Kris Hampton  54:34

But a sunscreen and let's think about spray sunscreens instead of slathering it on with your hands and then jumping onto a boulder.

Nate Drolet  54:44

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  54:44

Not a good idea. Spray sunscreens are definitely the way to go if you're going to be carrying sunscreen and to the crag or bug spray for that matter.

Nate Drolet  54:53

Yeah, and if you're hell bent on using like a lotion, use something like I saw someone they were using, I don't know, it was like a paper towels or like a plastic bag or something to apply it on. It seemed like a big mess. But hey, if that's your thing, like, go that way. But basically what we're trying to say is don't let lotion touch your hands. 

Kris Hampton  55:14

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  55:15

Because then that's going to get on the rock. And that's 

Kris Hampton  55:16

While you're climbing while you're climbing. 

Nate Drolet  55:18

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If you're like at home and you're about to go out, sure. Lather up, wash your hands and then go but

Kris Hampton  55:24

yeah, and use it in the evenings, you know, some sort of a skin moisturizing repairing thing. It can be super helpful.

Nate Drolet  55:33

Yeah, I like using something before I go to bed to kind of help my skin heal a little bit faster. No longer on suntan lotions, but just general lotion. Like anytime I hop out of the shower, I put something on my skin.

Kris Hampton  55:45

 Yeah, totally. Sort of a subcategory of skin tool is tape. 

Nate Drolet  55:50

Oh, yeah

Kris Hampton  55:50

. You know, it's not all tapes are created equal. 

Nate Drolet  55:53

Definitely not. 

Kris Hampton  55:54

Um, we sell a tape called Circuit Rape. That's also in the Crag Kits, and it's a cohesive tape. Whereas a lot of tapes are adhesive. It works differently, works for different things. I use it a lot when I'm bouldering and at the crag, whether it's to save my skin for on a sharp hold when I'm just working out moves. I'm already chalked up and you know my hands, I don't want to clean them, apply adhesive tape and then, you know, I just want to throw something on to try and move, a gnarly finger lock or something like that.  I'll use Circuit Tape pretty often. 

Nate Drolet  56:34

So what does cohesive mean? 

Kris Hampton  56:36

Cohesive just means it sticks to itself instead of to your skin and the tape that we use was developed, I believe in World War One, it might have been World War Two. I have that info on the site, specifically because adhesive tape wasn't sticking in the battlefields. So they developed this cohesive tape that sticks to itself and can work over dirty grimy skin, 

Nate Drolet  57:01

Dirt, sweat all those things. 

Kris Hampton  57:02

Yeah. So I use it all the time. It doesn't slide when you're sweating, like like some adhesive tapes do. Yeah. And I think it has its place. You know where adhesive tape also has its place.

Nate Drolet  57:15

Yeah. Yeah, I, you know, I was skeptical the first time I saw it. I was like, "I don't know." But, and especially once I figured out how to apply it well,

Kris Hampton  57:25

I think that's the important part. 

Nate Drolet  57:26

Yeah, I became a big fan. It's really big if you ever get flappers or if you ever get like hotspots on your toes or something. A nice thing is because it sticks to itself and it doesn't stick to your skin, when you go to pull it off, you're not pulling away that extra skin

Kris Hampton  57:43

Right

Nate Drolet  57:44

 Like you're not tearing at that open cut. So I'm a huge fan for that.

Kris Hampton  57:50

Yeah, and that's, like I said that's in our Crag Kits, as well as the Tension adhesive tape, the thin cut adhesive tape. And I know from talking to Will that they spent a lot of time finding the right adhesive for this tape and, and I was skeptical of it like I am of everything, you know. It s[unds like in this episode, I'm only skeptical of Tension, since it was their shoe spray last but but I've used their thin tape a number of times. And and it's the stickiest tape I've ever used. You know, I don't I've never used Leukotape, so I can't speak to that. But I've heard enough stories of people pulling skin off with Leukotape that I'm that I'm a little wary of it. And I've used the Tension thin adhesive tape to great effect. So

Nate Drolet  58:40

Yeah, and for anyone who so you said, "Not all tape is made equally." I will go a step further and say, "Not all tape is applied equally."

Kris Hampton  58:49

Totally. 

Nate Drolet  58:50

There are people who try and climb with tape and they're like, "Yeah, I don't know how anyone does it." But then you see someone like Alex Megos climbing V15 with tape.

Kris Hampton  58:58

I think he just tapes because that's part of his image now.

Nate Drolet  59:01

Oh, yeah. It's like he doesn't even like carrots either. That's what I'm pretty sure. He's like, "God I gotta keep taping and eating carrots. I don't even like yellow."

Kris Hampton  59:10

Hahaha. And wearing yellow. 

Nate Drolet  59:11

Yeah. But speaking of Alex Megos, he put out a it is like an Instagram Live, but it's now on YouTube. But it's a taping tutorial. 

Kris Hampton  59:21

Yep

Nate Drolet  59:21

He was like, "Here's how I tape." and I can tell you right now it is not.... like I had never seen this method before. It's pretty unique. But I mean, the dude climbs a lot with taped fingers. And it's a if you want to know how to tape, that's a really good way to like that's a good place to look. 

Kris Hampton  59:39

Yeah, absolutely is and, you know, experiment with different ways that work for you. Yeah, different widths of tape work for different size fingers and for different applications. You know if I'm gonna, if I'm going to go crack climbing, I'm not going to use quarter inch wide tape to make tape gloves out of you know.

Nate Drolet  59:57

Totally

Kris Hampton  59:57

I'm going to carry full width athletic tape for that.

Nate Drolet  1:00:00

Yep

Kris Hampton  1:00:01

 So having several different widths can be super helpful. Yeah, and if you're not a, if you're not a regular crack climber, you're still gonna encounter boulders that have hand jam. And, you know, why not tape the back your hand up just for that hand jam?

Nate Drolet  1:00:14

Yeah, like, knowing how I have figured out a method, I forget where I learned it. Maybe Steph Davis's website, but how to use just two pieces of tape to tape for hand jams. It's awesome. I use it for sport climbing. I use it for bouldering it's quick, it's easy. And that's, that makes a pretty huge difference.

Kris Hampton  1:00:34

Yep. And a lot of people go as far as using superglue under their tape. 

Nate Drolet  1:00:38

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  1:00:39

I have in the past. And, and I can understand why you would. Some people use brush superglue on top of their tape to kind of reinforce those ridges so they don't roll up. So there's all sorts of ways to that you can experiment with and figure out what works for you.

Nate Drolet  1:00:58

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  1:01:00

Any other skin tools you can think of? I think we've covered all that I have here. 

Nate Drolet  1:01:05

Yeah. I can't think of any offhand.

Kris Hampton  1:01:08

Don't climb like an asshole. That's a good skin tool. 

Nate Drolet  1:01:11

Yeah. Oh,

Kris Hampton  1:01:12

 Save some skin.

Nate Drolet  1:01:13

Actually. Yeah, that's a really good one. Don't, don't climb until you bleed.

Kris Hampton  1:01:17

Haha. Yeah, like,

Nate Drolet  1:01:18

 I mean, and that sounds silly but

Kris Hampton  1:01:19

 There are situations where you do you know

Nate Drolet  1:01:21

You can if you're just working something... like the difference in healing time between "Wow my skin is really thin. One more go and  I'm going to bleed." and "Oh, wow, I'm bleeding." I mean, that's like an extra week and a half sometimes to heal that same exact thing that's one go different. So tape it up.

Kris Hampton  1:01:42

Tape before you bleed 

Nate Drolet  1:01:43

Tape before you bleed, like and that sounds like

Nate Drolet  1:01:45

Yeah, that sounds obvious. But a lot of people don't do it. So if you realize, "Hey, like, this is just me working out this climb. I'm not gonna send it but it's tearing my skin up", pre tape. It might make it harder to work out. But you're gonna be able to learn the moves and when you come back knowing what you're doing, your skin's gonna not gonna be all fucked up. 

Kris Hampton  1:01:45

If you can. 

Kris Hampton  1:02:05

Yep, for sure

Nate Drolet  1:02:06

. So, yeah, you know, don't don't waste skin when you don't need to. And feel out holds, like we talked about stacking pads.

Kris Hampton  1:02:16

 Yeah

Nate Drolet  1:02:16

If there are sharp holds, especially once you jump to, go feel them out, find

Kris Hampton  1:02:21

And then find another boulder haha

Nate Drolet  1:02:22

Find the other boulder. Sometimes there are going to be spots where like all the time I'll grab holds where I'm like, "Oh, this part's a little worse, but it's not as sharp". Like if it's a big ledge where I'm like, "If I jump here, I'll stick it but it's going to like cut open my middle pads.", I may jump just right where it's a little slopier, but I'm not going to cut my skin. 

Kris Hampton  1:02:41

Right. 

Nate Drolet  1:02:42

So finding those things are important.

Kris Hampton  1:02:44

Yep, totally. Let's move on to snacks. 

Nate Drolet  1:02:50

Yes. Eat them. 

Kris Hampton  1:02:53

Eat them. Have them. 

Nate Drolet  1:02:54

Yep

Kris Hampton  1:02:54

Gummy bears. 

Nate Drolet  1:02:54

Gummy bears.

Kris Hampton  1:02:55

Gummy bears, not those damn Twin Snakes. Gummy bears. Snacks pre, during and post, you know. How do you how do you work these things?

Nate Drolet  1:03:06

For me pre is typically I'll eat a meal, you know, 30 minutes to an hour before I go climbing if I can. That's my preference. And then during, carbs. Like if it's even a gym session, if I'm just going in for like a two hour gym session, halfway through, I eat a banana. That's right around 30 grams of carbs. And I don't know anything about nutrition, but I read that on Instagram once that it was a good amount. You know, and I like it. So

Kris Hampton  1:03:37

Yeah, I like bananas, I like apples. I generally tend towards snacks that are sugary during the day and you know, try to space those out. I talked... I think I talked about this in the other episode. I've been a big fan of frozen pizza with a ton of vegetables on it. It just keeps me excited to eat throughout the day. And they're in, tey're in great little small pieces already. So I can eat a piece of pizza, put it away, you know.

Nate Drolet  1:04:05

Yeah, that's one thing that I realized early on, like when I started doing the Triple Crown competitions in the South. Like I used to never bring food with me to go climbing and especially not in the gym. But I would go to the Triple Crowns and I'd be like, "Okay, I really want to stack my odds. I'm going to bring you know, bring water. Make sure I'll bring I'll probably bring like some a protein drink so I can sip on that. And then I'm going to have just a bunch of snacks that I can eat through the day." And man, eight hours into this comp and I'm still performing well. 

Kris Hampton  1:04:33

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  1:04:33

And it took me a long time to be like, "Oh, that's right. Like, what if I just ate like that all the time". You know, made sure that my body was never tanking and hitting empty during climbing or training.

Kris Hampton  1:04:44

Mm hmm. Yeah, I like nuts as well. Nuts are something that I I never bring, but I'm always glad when Annalissa does. 

Nate Drolet  1:04:52

Yeah

Kris Hampton  1:04:52

 I love snacking on nuts throughout the day. I'll add here as well. If you've got snacks that are greasy, oily, just, you know, try to be careful not to grab a handful of greasy peanuts or whatever and then throw them in your mouth and jump right on the boulder. Yeah, make sure you're cleaning your hands off if you're eating greasy things before you go climbing again. 

Nate Drolet  1:05:16

Yeah, I know people who bring bottles of spray alcohol just for after they eat, so that their hands get clean. 

Kris Hampton  1:05:23

For sure. Think about these things people.

Nate Drolet  1:05:26

Yeah, so eat food. I mean, that's, I think for a lot of people, that's the biggest one is just just eat. 

Kris Hampton  1:05:32

Yeah, like, and I'll add hydration in there too. Yeah, plenty of water. Yeah, I love Gnarly Hydrate because it makes me want to go drink my water. 

Nate Drolet  1:05:40

It's so delicious. Yeah, 

Kris Hampton  1:05:41

Yeah. So think about those things. What about warm up tools?

Nate Drolet  1:05:47

Who so many?

Kris Hampton  1:05:49

What do you what do you bring most of the time when you're bouldering?

Nate Drolet  1:05:52

Either a Flash Board or a Tension Block... something from Tension

Kris Hampton  1:05:57

Yeah

Nate Drolet  1:05:57

Doesn't matter what it is.. Maybe just a campus rung. I don't know, I'll swing it around.

Kris Hampton  1:06:00

Haha I'm not skeptical of these either. 

Nate Drolet  1:06:02

Yeah, I like the, I used to always use the Flash Board. I sometimes just use the Block too, something I can use to warm up my fingers. I like those a lot. For a long time, I was just reminded of this.... I used to always have a big gallon jug with like a solid screw top on it. And I would do the equivalent of pretty much do like sandbag exercises, like chops and stuff to get my core warm. 

Kris Hampton  1:06:24

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  1:06:24

Especially when you know, I'd be bouldering when it's in the 30s. I would do that. And so it'd be a part of my warm up. And it is just kind of fun and goofing around. But yeah, things like that. Anything that kind of help keep you warm. I'm not against bands, like some people.

Kris Hampton  1:06:40

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  1:06:40

If they want them like, uh, I'll do that for, like for my hip sometimes. 

Kris Hampton  1:06:45

Yeah

Nate Drolet  1:06:46

If I want a little extra warm up, like I find, and we were talking about this. Some climbing is just really leg intensive. 

Kris Hampton  1:06:53

Totally.

Nate Drolet  1:06:53

 And if you want to do some extra leg warm ups like, that's great. Like, I'll get out on my pad and do like, you know, hip ridges, stuff like that, like all different things. But it's good to get, you know, get your body really well warm.

Nate Drolet  1:07:06

Yeah, I don't you know, and especially like for some people that might just be good for you can do some lightweight like face pullx, rows. If that just like gets those patterns like moving, gets you feeling good. Like if you had to drive two and a half hours to get to the crag and you are stiff. Shoot, if it makes you feel better, and you're not wasting time, do it. 

Kris Hampton  1:07:06

Yeah, I bring I bring a pretty heavy duty band when I'm when I know I'm going to be projecting something that is leg intensive. And I'll get my hamstrings, my heel hooks are warmed up quite a bit with a heavy duty band. And if you you know, if you feel better about how you climb if you're using just normal physio bands to warm your shoulders up or whatever, by all means, go for it. 

Kris Hampton  1:07:50

Yep. I'll also say and I think we mentioned this in our tactics episode, part one, that you know, the end of your boulder the beginning of your boulder can also be a great warm up tool. 

Nate Drolet  1:08:00

Yeah

Kris Hampton  1:08:01

If you don't have perfect warm ups around you know. And even if you do, I like to warm up on parts of my project. So keep those in mind, that those do exist. And if you have a spray wall at home and the boulders are close to you, if you have anything at home, use those as a warm up tool. I love to go get my fingers warm by hanging or get my heels warm by... my hamstrings warm by doing heel hook boulders on my spray wall before I head out to the boulders. 

Nate Drolet  1:08:29

Yeah

Kris Hampton  1:08:31

That's such a more effective session for me then going out and trying to warm up on V3 to jump on my V10 project.

Nate Drolet  1:08:39

Yeah, you know, and I like I'll even uh, I'm a fan of I'll do like Turkish get ups and stuff as part of my warm up if I'm at home andd I have access to that. Like just do a little bit to get my shoulders, everything, nice and warm

Kris Hampton  1:08:50

You don't carry a full set of kettlebells out to the boulders with you?

Nate Drolet  1:08:53

Well, I when I had the van I did.

Kris Hampton  1:08:54

Haha

Nate Drolet  1:08:55

In  Rifle I have a full set of kettlebells and everything so but yeah, you you know there are a lot of different tools. You don't have to rely only on climbing to warm up. You know if you want to do cartwheels, do cartwheels. 

Kris Hampton  1:09:08

That's actually a pretty good idea. 

Nate Drolet  1:09:09

Yeah, do some tumbling.

Kris Hampton  1:09:10

I'm gonna do some cartwheels in the boulders. 

Nate Drolet  1:09:12

Perfect.

Kris Hampton  1:09:13

 All right. Last but not least, this is a no real specific order here but clothing layers. 

Nate Drolet  1:09:21

Yes

Kris Hampton  1:09:21

Yeah, especially if you're if you're taking a climbing trip to the west and you've not climbed in the West a lot. You know it can be pretty drastically different between sun and shade and if the wind kicks up and and also once you're warmed up, you might want different layers. If you're sitting and resting and cooling down, you might want different layers. Bring all the things, long sleeves, hats, zip ups, you know, pants even. I fit's a shorts day, bring pants. If you think it's a pants day, still bring a pair of shorts.

Nate Drolet  1:09:54

I always keep a pair of shorts in my bag. Like doesn't matter how cold it is. Because sometimes you'll get into little corridor of boulders where it's really sunny, no wind. And you may have been shivering outside of that and you go in, you're like, "Oh, like, man, I'm just like dumping sweat right now."

Kris Hampton  1:10:09

 Yeah.

Nate Drolet  1:10:10

 So yeah, all different layers. I know this is mostly about bouldering, but I've met people who have down pants. 

Kris Hampton  1:10:17

Oh I love the belay pants.

Nate Drolet  1:10:18

Yeah, for belaying. Because that's huge when you're belaying or if you're just taking a long rest between boulders, stay almost overly warm. You will not regret it.

Kris Hampton  1:10:18

 Yeah, one of the key things for me bouldering in the South in the winter, Southeast... because it's so humid and the cold is kind of biting there, one of the key things for me is to have hand warmers or toe warmers inside my socks or on the outside of my socks. And in between attempts, I would put my socks and shoes back on. Or big down booties if I brought those, on over my socks with a hand warmer, toe warmer in there to keep my toes really warm, so that when I step on to the boulder, I still have full dexterity in my toes.

Nate Drolet  1:11:08

Yeah. And that's a big one. People don't realize how much their toes freeze out when they're climbing. 

Kris Hampton  1:11:13

Yeah. 

Nate Drolet  1:11:13

And suddenly they are like, "Oh these feet feel really bad." And it's like, "Well, you just don't feel them. " I mean, we're all guilty of it.

Kris Hampton  1:11:20

Yeah, totally. Yeah, always keep spare hat of some kind. Especially if you're shaved head person like me.

Nate Drolet  1:11:28

I gonna say

Kris Hampton  1:11:29

My head can start getting cold on the warmest of days if it's windy. So I always keep a hat in my bouldering bag.

Nate Drolet  1:11:36

Yeah. Yeah, you know, layers. I'm trying to think if there's anything else on that.

Kris Hampton  1:11:44

I almost always have a thin down zip up. 

Nate Drolet  1:11:47

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  1:11:48

You know, just in case it gets super windy, temperatures drop, whatever. I'm done climbing and I just want to spot and hang out. I've got this easy to on and off layer that I can pull out.

Nate Drolet  1:12:00

Yeah. Yeah. It like it sucks going out and not being well prepared. And then like kind of freezing between boulders and just being uncomfortable. Like that's the last... you want to be worried about your climbing. Not about, you know, staying warm enough or even staying cool enough.

Kris Hampton  1:12:16

Yep. All right. Any other tactical tools you got?

Nate Drolet  1:12:21

Umm. Let me look over. I think that's about it.

Kris Hampton  1:12:25

That's all I've got on my list right now.

Nate Drolet  1:12:27

I feel like we covered a lot on that.

Kris Hampton  1:12:29

Yeah. And I think you know, I think ideally, this is you're hearing this and we have our Crag Kits out and ready. We also have a Bouldering Bag that we've been working on that fits nicely in your crash pad. 

Kris Hampton  1:12:44

Ooh.

Kris Hampton  1:12:44

It can fit all of these things. What were you gonna say?

Nate Drolet  1:12:47

I'm gonna say one other thing about crash pads. If you want to make your crash pads last longer, be careful about how you stuff things into them. If you have a big bulbous bag and you stuff it in, it's going to deform the foam. So you either want things to lay flat 

Kris Hampton  1:13:02

Your foam will get soft spots in it. 

Nate Drolet  1:13:04

Yeah. You either want things to lay very flat and open or you want it strapped to the outside. 

Kris Hampton  1:13:09

Yep. 

Nate Drolet  1:13:10

And so this is that was kind of the impetus for designing the Bouldering Bag how it is

Kris Hampton  1:13:15

Yep, I like to have things in my pad. So we created a Bouldering Bag that opens up like a saddle bag, lays flat, has lots of pockets, some reinforced and stiffer than others for things like phones or battery chargers, things like that. And you know ideally that's out right now as well and we've got a list on the website which is linked right there in your show notes in your pocket supercomputer to a lot of our favorite things here. LED lights, fans, things like that. So check out that list. Get it for your favorite boulderer, which is probably you, for Christmas. And you know, share it on the social medias. Facebook, you can tag us and it @PowerCompanyClimbing. Same on the Instagram. Tag us there. Definitely tweet. What's it called when you send a lot of tweets? Is there word for that?

Nate Drolet  1:14:13

 I was hoping you had a dad joke for this

Kris Hampton  1:14:14

Do the tweeters have a word for that? I don't know if they do. And the reason I don't know is because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.