In this Board Meeting, Nate is temporarily replaced by our Strength and Conditioning Coach, Paul Corsaro. Paul is a kettlebell expert (among other things), and has converted me. We discuss our Top 5 Reasons for continuing to use kettlebells in our own training as well as in programming for our athletes.

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:00

Hey everybody, Kris here. Just a quick note about this episode. This episode is with Paul Corsaro, our strength and conditioning coach from Chattanooga, who runs Crux Conditioning down there. And in the second half of this episode, for some reason, we have a bunch of clicking and popping and interference. I'm not sure why it was there. I've mostly gotten rid of it. But because I'm a stickler for this thing, I've just wanted to point it out in case those things pop in, no pun intended. And Paul's voice might be changed a little bit here and there. So just letting you know. Let's get into it.

Kris Hampton  00:46

 What's up, everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton. 

Paul Corsaro  00:57

And I'm Paul Corsaro

Kris Hampton  00:59

.And together we form... I can't believe I've never thought of this, but Ben and Jerry. 

Paul Corsaro  01:05

Haha

Kris Hampton  01:05

It's ice cream. It's Ben Moon and Jerry Moffatt. How have I never made that connection?

Paul Corsaro  01:10

I don't know. I didn't make that connection until you said Jerry Moffatt

Kris Hampton  01:12

All of the famous duos that I've had to come up with throughout these Board Meetings and I've never thought of Ben and Jerry. I've eaten many, many pints of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I've never come up with Ben Moon and Jerry Moffatt. I've even said, "Oh I'd love to go to Sheffield and interview Ben and Jerry." and it's never never crossed my mind that that's an ice cream brand here. What the hell is wrong with me?

Paul Corsaro  01:31

Do you think maybe they've got some sort of private stake in Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream? 

Kris Hampton  01:33

I bet they do. They're both shrewd businessmen, so I bet that they're the owners. And those little drawings are Ben and Jerry when they're older. Though they already they're already older, so those are actual portraits of Ben and Jerry right now haha. 

Paul Corsaro  01:51

Haha. All right. 

Kris Hampton  01:52

All right. All right. We are, we are here in Starcraft, the Power Company spaceship, in the Red River Gorge. And we're here with Paul Corsaro, doing our second for the night. And Paul is, I don't know which one of these gonna come out first, so we're just gonna repeat a bunch here.

Paul Corsaro  02:07

Let's do it.

Kris Hampton  02:12

 So Paul is a strength trainer and climbing coach out of Chattanooga. You guys have heard him on past episodes about kettlebells, about good form. He's been in several of the all four of us Board Meetings, whole team Board Meetings. And he owns a gym down in Chattanooga, Crux Conditioning, which you should definitely visit if you happen to be going through Chattanooga, which many of you will because it's it could be if the weather were better in Chattanooga, I think it would be the best bouldering in the country.

Paul Corsaro  03:21

 I wouldn't argue with that. 

Kris Hampton  03:22

That might be blasphemy for people who love Hueco or love Bishop but it's just a fact.

Paul Corsaro  03:29

I would say if the weather was a little better and there was a bit more public land. That would be the thing

Kris Hampton  03:34

it had Hueco's weather, it would be amazing.

Paul Corsaro  03:38

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  03:38

But Hueco has Hueco's weather, so Hueco is amazing. 

Paul Corsaro  03:42

Won't argue with that either.

Kris Hampton  03:43

 All of the good places though. 

Female Speaker  03:45

So get out and vote for your national parks.

Kris Hampton  03:45

"So get out and vote for your national parks" . Is that what you said Taylor?

Female Speaker  03:47

Yeah. November 6th.

Kris Hampton  03:47

Get out and vote. 

Female Speaker  03:47

I don't know when this podcast is coming out.

Kris Hampton  03:47

It's gonna be way after November 6th haha. But next November sixth, get out and vote for your national parks. Haha. And Paul's here tonight to talk about the top five reasons that we like kettlebells. Actually kettlebells are kind of the reason we connected 

Paul Corsaro  04:11

Yeah

Kris Hampton  04:12

Early on, because you were starting to get back into climbing is that right?

Kris Hampton  04:19

Yeah, at the time it was just me really.

Paul Corsaro  04:19

Yep. I had taken about a year and a half off or so and I just reached out to you because I liked what y'all were doing with the Power Company or I guess you at the time

Paul Corsaro  04:23

I like what you were doing with Power Company and asked you some questions about stuff and started talking about strength training and some kettlebell things and things happened after that. 

Kris Hampton  04:38

Yeah. And I you know, you wanted a climbing plan

Kris Hampton  04:39

 Ha yeah to be really specific. Some things happened. You wanted a climbing plan and you ended up doing the Boulder Strong program. And I wanted to learn more about kettlebells. So we ended up together...well you wrote the majority of our Kettlebells For Climbers Plan. And then I went through it and tweaked a little bit based on how climbers are training for climbing. And we kind of haggled back and forth until we had something we were both really happy with. And, and at this point, hundreds and hundreds of people have been really happy with the Kettlebells For Climbers program.

Paul Corsaro  04:41

 It's pretty cool to see.

Paul Corsaro  04:41

To be specific haha.

Kris Hampton  04:52

 Yeah. So and and I've done it several times and feel like it's really a beneficial thing for my climbing. Like moving into the V10 sphere, I thought it was one of the most important parts of my training, if not the most important part of my training.

Paul Corsaro  05:39

Where do you think it fit the best in kind of your climbing season? Like more preseason? More offseason?

Kris Hampton  05:46

I actually do it, I do it during my whole training cycle. 

Paul Corsaro  05:51

Cool. 

Kris Hampton  05:52

Depending on what I'm training for I will, I will do kettlebells pretty hardcore if I'm just training strength and power, like for a bouldering season or a bouldering trip. If I'm training for sport climbing, then I might slack off on the volume of the kettlebells a little bit, or quite a bit in my like final three week power endurance window, right at the end of my training cycle. Just because the volume of my training ramps up fairly high and I want to really focus on the rest in between. So at that point, I might just switch to like a few Turkish get-ups a session or something like that. 

Paul Corsaro  06:39

Cool. 

Kris Hampton  06:40

But it's been huge for me. If you guys haven't checked it out already, you should. You can do that on our website, PowerCompanyClimbing.com/ebook, or just click on the Train With Us tabs and the ebooks. It's in there. It's also set up as a Proven Plan, with or without coach communication. If you choose the with coach communication, that all goes straight to Paul. So Paul will be the person that you're talking to and working with and you can send videos and he'll tell you how your videos look and if you're doing things right.

Paul Corsaro  07:12

Yeah, we'll do it through Google Drive. We've used some Coach's Eye for stuff like that in the past. And you know, slight or not even slight, some, you know, we'll put the tweaks in there that you know, need to fit your schedule yet still get you what you need to get done with that work.

Kris Hampton  07:27

Yeah, cool. And I think that's really valuable, so. But the top five reasons that we like to use kettlebells. The number five reason is, this sounds kind of obvious, but I think it's something people don't really think about when they're or forget to think about when they're planning their training space, is the footprint that a kettlebell takes up is considerably smaller than other implements that you would get a similar adaptation from. 

Paul Corsaro  08:02

Yeah

Kris Hampton  08:02

So for me, my in the Machine Shop, which any of you who follow on Instagram have seen a lot of photos of, I've got a pretty small floor space for strength training. And a barbell would fit in there, but it would take up the whole floor space. But instead, I've got a rack of six or seven kettlebells that don't take up much space at all. And then I've got plenty of floor space for Turkish get ups, swings, whatever it is I want to use them for and then I could just take them out into the driveway and do carries if I want to do carries or walk around the yard or whatever.

Paul Corsaro  08:43

If you ae super sadistic, you could just throw them in your pack and hike out to the crag.

Kris Hampton  08:47

I'm not gonna do that. Are you fucking crazy? Haha. So the footprint of the kettlebells is our number five. And I think that's, like I said, obvious, but really, really important.

Paul Corsaro  08:58

It was yeah, it was kind of obvious, but at the same time, it wasn't. You know, we talked about originally we're going to call this "portability". But if you think about it, if you were just gonna get a couple kettlebells, say, you know, I'd say for you know, anywhere from a 12 kilos, so about 25 pounds to a 24 kilo or about 55 pounds. You know, those are you're getting a lot of work out of those and you know if you're gonna double those up to a standard two leg or two arm barbell lift, you know, just for a barbell, that's what six and a half seven feet right there

Kris Hampton  09:30

Right

Paul Corsaro  09:30

Compared to a kettlebell, which is about eight inches long. Hmm...maybe more. Let's just say a foot because I'm bad at math. But um

Kris Hampton  09:38

It's about the size of a kickball. 

Paul Corsaro  09:40

Yeah, there you go. The standard kickball dimension. 

Kris Hampton  09:44

Haha

Paul Corsaro  09:44

You're just gonna be able to get a lot more weight.

Kris Hampton  09:46

The Beast is about the size of a kickball.

Paul Corsaro  09:48

I think. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, that's a good kind of standard measurement to throw onto this. But um, you know, kickball versus a seven foot barbell, I think we're gonna be in, you're gonna get a lot more use out of your space, slash be able to take that with you way more easily than you're going to be just with the standard barbell set. Not there's anything wrong with the barbell set.

Kris Hampton  10:09

Not at all, 

Paul Corsaro  10:10

But you know, a lot of us move around a little bit, take trips, you know, still want to keep up with our physical development on those trips. If you can figure out a way to easily transport a barbell on your climbing trips, let me know, because that'd be I'd be really interested in knowing how.

Kris Hampton  10:26

 Yeah, I mean, whenever Nate is in Lander, several kettlebells just appear in my gym, you know. It's really nice, because then I double up on several sizes. And I carried several with me on our big road trip a couple of years ago. And I think it's really important to have with you, if you have that capability. And like you said, there's nothing wrong with barbells. If you have space, and can do both, great. You know, our friend, Brian Suntay uses both pretty regularly, barbells and kettlebells, and believes that they're both important. But he has the space for that in his training area. I could have built in the space for a barbell, but it was going to be considerably added money and time. And the, the way everything was set up in the training space that I have, it was just going to be quite a bit simpler if I went just kettlebells, so that was a big consideration for me. And it's, I mean, it's our number five here, and I agree with that, even though it was a big consideration. All of these others are even more important. And our.....go ahead.

Paul Corsaro  11:46

Yeah, so yes, you know, moving on to the next one would be that there's a low initial investment, you know. Starting with the barbell, say, you know, you're trying to work on some overhead presses or squats or, you know, standard barbell set is what you're probably getting what... around 200 pounds of weights? It's a couple hundred bucks 

Kris Hampton  12:04

Yeah, it's expensive. 

Paul Corsaro  12:05

Yeah. You know, starting with a one kettlebell. I mean, you lock me in a room with a 35 pound kettlebell, I'll get stronger after six weeks.

Kris Hampton  12:13

 Yep. 

Paul Corsaro  12:13

Um, you know, a lot of people have said that. They're not wrong. So yeah,

Kris Hampton  12:17

And we, in our Kettlebells For Climbers ebook we have, this was something I dealt with early on, because when we first began collaborating on the Kettlebells For Climbers ebook, I didn't have any experience with kettlebells. I was just interested in them. So I didn't have a kettlebell available to me and what I ended up doing was just buying....first, actually, I bought an adjustable weight kettlebell. And I think that's an that's an acceptable way to start. However, if I had to go back, I wouldn't have started that way. What I ended up doing was after a month or two of that adjustable weight kettlebell, I settled on just buying one weight that was the weight that I could overhead press five times. And for most climbers, that's going to be a little too light for your pulling, for your swings, but for your pressing work, it's going to be really important. And, and early on in your strength training journey, that might be the most important part of your strength training.

Kris Hampton  12:30

I would argue that most climbers need to put a little bit more work into pressing. 

Kris Hampton  13:38

Yeah, totally.

Paul Corsaro  13:38

Whether it's push ups overhead presses, horizontal pushing forms of other

Kris Hampton  13:44

The floor press that we do in the ebook. 

Paul Corsaro  13:48

Yeah, because we do a lot of pulling, outside of that.

Kris Hampton  13:50

Yeah, so much.

Paul Corsaro  13:50

 So you know, balancing that out is pretty important.

Kris Hampton  13:52

Yeah, so that low initial investment was, was a really important part of it for me. That I could just buy one kettlebell and then if I decided, "Okay, I'm going to stick to this, I like it. It's, it's going to be meaningful for my training", then I can buy another one. And what we suggest in the ebook is, your first bell should be the one that you can overhead press five times. Your next bell should be a size or two higher. I prefer the two sizes higher for pulls and for swings.

Paul Corsaro  14:30

Yeah, I agree. That's kind of where I was going there when I tried to jump in there. So yep.

Kris Hampton  14:35

Yeah. And I think, you know, as you... this shit becomes addicting, frankly, and now I have a bunch of kettlebells.

Paul Corsaro  14:42

They tend to multiply don't they?

Kris Hampton  14:43

Haha. They do. They do. And And let's talk a little bit about buying them and where to buy them and how to go about that because there are a lot of kettlebells out there and they're not all created equally.

Paul Corsaro  14:59

Yeah, yeah. You know, you've got two basic types. You've got competition kettlebells, which, you know, that's kind of the mold that were a lot of the kettlebells that when they started showing up here in the United States were based off of. You know, competition kettlebells or, you know, there's a couple different competitions that or a couple different disciplines that happened with kettlebells where it is either a clean and press, or a long cycle clean and jerk or you know, snatch, where you're doing a lot of work without setting the bell down for about 10 minutes.

Kris Hampton  15:29

Right. 

Paul Corsaro  15:29

And all those bells, no matter what weight they are, their dimensions are the same. I don't know the dimensions off the top of my head. I don't compete in that and haven't ever. 

Kris Hampton  15:39

How do they do that? Are they hollowed or...?

Paul Corsaro  15:42

I think they're just different density. 

Kris Hampton  15:44

Hmm. Okay. I wasn't even aware that was actually a thing, but it very well could be.

Paul Corsaro  15:49

Yeah, um, yeah, I think it's just a different density bell? Or maybe they're hollowed out with different weighted inserts in the middle. I'm sure someone out there knows. 

Kris Hampton  15:59

Yeah, 

Paul Corsaro  16:00

I'd be psyched to learn. But yeah, so those are all the same dimension. They've kind of got more of a rectangular handle, if I had to give it a shape. Um, then there's other, more conventional style kettlebells. I know Rogue makes a great set.

Kris Hampton  16:16

That is what I preferred.

Paul Corsaro  16:17

That's what you know, that's what we use at Crux too. We use Rogue bells. So there's other brands out there that make similar ones. Perform Better, Kettlebell Kings, they all make great bells along those, those styles as well. And they're gonna all have similar dimensions of other bells made by other people of that weight. So you know, the handle, the handles are a little bit less rectangular. They're gonna rest on the forearm a little bit better for get ups and snatches done in the hard-style way.

Kris Hampton  16:49

Yeah, I agree. I really liked the Rogue bells. And when I was first looking to purchase, I was really, and it was looking at the ones that were like, "Free shipping!", you know, because you look at Rogue bells, and the shipping cost a small fortune. But when you average it all out, you're not paying that much more for a good bell, if you're paying for shipping, than you are for the cheaper bells that have free shipping. So I would suggest going with the better brand name bell.

Paul Corsaro  17:26

They'll last forever too

Kris Hampton  17:28

 Yeah, totally. I mean, as long as you don't leave them out in the rain, they're going to be totally fine. And if you happen to be in like Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, anywhere around there, Rogue is based in Columbus, Ohio. And you can, if you happen to be driving through at some point on your way to the Red, whatever, you can stop through Columbus and pick them up in their shop, which is what I've done several times. I actually had our friend Brian Suntay, who I mentioned earlier, buy a bell, buy two bells, my biggest two, I don't even remember what they are....a 90 something pound and, and the next size down, a 70 something pound and he, he picked those up for me. I ordered them, he picked them up. He delivered to a friend of mine in Cincinnati who put them on his moving truck when he was moving to Colorado. And then I picked them up from him in Colorado during the CWA. So if you can get a friend who's moving across the country, that's a great way to to not pay shipping and get good bells. So that low initial investment is our number four reason and a really important one. Getting into the more physical reasons why kettlebells are important, our number three is that it's one of the only implements that really encourages both stability and strength at the same time. Is that.... I mean, do you agree with that statement?

Paul Corsaro  19:08

Yeah, I do. Um, you know, when I'm 

Kris Hampton  19:11

Not that barbells don't encourage stability, but not nearly to the degree of a kettlebell.

Paul Corsaro  19:18

One of the advantages of the kettlebells, I think, is that you can do a lot of stuff with just one, one side, so a lot of unilateral movements.

Kris Hampton  19:26

Right. 

Paul Corsaro  19:27

And so you can work on and you know, one of the things with an overhead barbell press that could be troublesome is you know, a lot of people have one shoulder that kind of is a jerk from time to time.

Kris Hampton  19:38

 Yep. 

Paul Corsaro  19:38

Some people have both shoulders that are a jerk from time to time, but a lot of times it's one and one is all right. You know, a lot of times that could be a result of one has a little bit less mobility than the other. And you know, if you're going to glue both of those arms to the same implement and try and press it overhead, you're either not going to get the range you need to get to get stronger overhead, or something's going to be pulled out of a position where it should be comfortable and stable and everything needs to be aligned. So you know, you could be furthering some of the issues you're having with that joint that doesn't have that issue, the joint that has that issue. So you know, kettlebells allow you to work one side at a time. And you know, while dumbbells do that too, with the kettlebell, the weight sets a little bit off center. You know, so you're getting just a little bit more challenge on keeping everything centered down the chain in the shoulder joint, through the elbow, keeping a strong wrist. You know, you'll notice and some people use kettlebell work and press it overhead, that wrist kind of breaks backwards. 

Kris Hampton  20:34

Yep.

Paul Corsaro  20:35

And, you know, it's important to have strong aligned wrists, especially as climbers, because you know, if we're not strong and aligned in our wrists, we're either gonna pick up the slack by using our fingers more than we need to, leads some overuse injury there

Kris Hampton  20:49

Raising our elbows up

Paul Corsaro  20:50

Or a lot of times, you'll see some elbow issues happen

Kris Hampton  20:52

Yeah totally.

Paul Corsaro  20:53

You know, that we're gonna have some tendinitis pop up there. So by focusing on good form, and building strength with these bells, we can also help prevent some issues that could result from poor stability otherwise.

Kris Hampton  21:06

Yeah, I also like that the, the kettlebells, sit on your arms in such a way that encourages external rotation, whether you're floor pressing, overhead, pressing whatever. And dumbbells just don't. So you will tend toward your natural rotation, which for most climbers is an internal rotation. And kettlebells encourage you to be a little more externally rotated while you're pressing.

Paul Corsaro  21:35

Absolutely. 

Kris Hampton  21:35

And then you know, another reason kettlebells can help increase our stability too is you can really increase the stability demands by doing bottoms up kettlebell work, just by flipping the bell upside...errr.... yeah, upside down. So you're just holding the handle, and the bells 

Kris Hampton  21:50

Yeah so the round part of the bell is up

Paul Corsaro  21:51

Which is up in the air. And you know, that's really good for focusing on keeping that forearm vertical, working on stability on the joints, shoulders, elbows, wrists, all of that. That's also important to kind of think about as a climber, because as climbers, we tend to kind of grab things really strongly.

Kris Hampton  22:09

 Yeah.

Paul Corsaro  22:09

 If you're doing a bottoms up, kettlebell press, and the bell is not in line with your forearm, it's at a 45 degree angle, and you're you're squeezing the shit out of it, you're kind of missing the point. 

Kris Hampton  22:18

Yeah.

Paul Corsaro  22:18

 So keep that in mind when you do bottoms up kettlebell work.

Kris Hampton  22:21

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And, you know, that's something that I really like about unilateral movements in general, is just that it takes a little more focus, and a little more awareness, to make sure that it doesn't get a little wonky and a little strange, that that's lacking in barbell training. And don't get me wrong, I don't, I don't dislike barbell training at all. I think it's a really great way to train and an important way to train. But one of the things I really like about kettlebells is that it's all unilateral movement. It puts you off balance a little bit, and you have to compensate a little bit for that through bracing your core in different ways and, and driving differently between the two legs, or the two arms or whatever. And that's what you do while you're climbing.

Paul Corsaro  23:18

 Yeah

Kris Hampton  23:19

 I mean, it's it's extremely rare that you're doing a bilateral movement while you're climbing. 

Paul Corsaro  23:25

Yeah, very rare. 

Kris Hampton  23:26

Yeah. I don't know that that ever even happens, you know, unless you're on a system board with perfectly parallel holds or something. But

Paul Corsaro  23:34

Standing up on both feet, while pulling down with both arms, that happens all the time, right?

Kris Hampton  23:39

Yeah, totally. Actually, I watch Annalissa do that all the time. After she clips a bolt, she just grabs two holds and pulls up and looks around. Sorry, babe had to call you out a little bit. Hahaha. But so yeah, that's something I really love is just the the unilateral stability focus of kettlebells. And that goes for all of the big movements as well. I have a lot of people do, you know, really heavyweight half rack squats and

Paul Corsaro  24:11

Carries with them off to the side. And yeah, anytime you

Kris Hampton  24:15

Carries. Yeah, even the holds, just holding a kettlebell in a rack position, I often have people use two different size bells, a couple of sizes apart, while they're just in a rack position and focusing on breathing. Because you're not just...you're never in a situation while you're climbing where you're equally loaded on all sides. You know, and if you can't breathe in a situation where your your loading is unequal and putting you a little off balance, then climbing is going to be really hard for you. 

Paul Corsaro  24:49

That clock is gonna start ticking real quick.

Kris Hampton  24:50

Yeah, totally.

Paul Corsaro  24:54

Kind of helps focus on breathing behind that tension in the front. So yeah,

Kris Hampton  24:59

Yeah, breathing behind

Paul Corsaro  25:00

Helping with power endurance, helping with you know, when you have to do a lot of hard moves right in a row, so you don't kind of run out of gas near the end.

Kris Hampton  25:07

Yep. Yeah, absolutely. You wanna take a break and move on to number two? 

Paul Corsaro  25:11

Sounds good. 

Kris Hampton  25:12

Alright, break. What's up everybody? Kris here, pardon the interruption. I'll keep this short and sweet. Since this podcast started taking off, and we've been growing it, you guys have been asking how you can help out. I've got three ways for you. Number one, you can become a patron. That just means you give a monthly donation to the podcast $1 and up, and you get something in return. And you can check out what those rewards are at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. Best of all, we'll keep it sponsor and commercial free fo you. Number two, you can rate us and review us on iTunes. I know it's a pain in the ass to go to iTunes and do all that, but it really helps us out. At least that's what I'm told by the podcast powers that be. And number three, perhaps the easiest way, and the best way to help us out is to share us on your social medias. Anytime you see us post up a new podcast, please share it with your friends, tag people who will really appreciate it, or who need to hear the advice that we're giving. All right, thank you guys and back to the show.

Kris Hampton  26:20

 And we have returned, we're here with Paul Corsaro talking about the top five reasons that we like kettlebells here in the Starcraft, the Power Company spaceship in the Red River Gorge. We're on our number two. And this is actually something that I get a lot of a lot of people don't quite understand at first. I think this is a tough concept for people because we've been so steeped in the tradition of add a half a pound, add a pound, you know. Just add the smallest plates that you can on each side, so you can make really incremental progress, which is great. And that's what I was steeped in and seeing kettlebells jump from one size to another, take these you know, nine pound jumps or whatever they are. Is that right? Is it nine pounds?

Paul Corsaro  27:13

It is usually eight ish. So if you think about it, usually, yeah, usually right around an eight pound jump, eight to nine.

Kris Hampton  27:19

So those big jumps, our number two, is that they encourage mastery and growth at those specific weights. And so let's dig into that a little bit. If you're..... this is something I hear often... if your overhead pressing with, say a 12 kilo bell. Is that one of the.... that's one of the sizes?

Paul Corsaro  27:44

Yep.

Kris Hampton  27:44

 Okay, I'm still learning the kilos here. 

Paul Corsaro  27:47

I usually just call them colors. That's the blue bell. 

Kris Hampton  27:49

Okay, the blue bell. If you are overhead pressing with the blue bell and it starts to starts to feel easy and you're like, "Okay, I should be moving up", but then you try the next bell up, which is 

Female Speaker  28:02

Yellow

Kris Hampton  28:04

Is yellow after blue?

Paul Corsaro  28:07

At Crux it is. There may be a.... that's there maybe a 14 kilo Bell, but I don't have.

Kris Hampton  28:13

It is. It is. I know, I think yellow is.... in my head yellow was smaller than blue, but I think I had them switched.

Paul Corsaro  28:17

Yeah, the yellow is the 16 kilo.

Kris Hampton  28:18

Thank you, Taylor. So if you're you want to move up to the yellow bell, but you get two reps in and you're like, "There's no fucking way I'm finishing five reps"

Paul Corsaro  28:26

Yep.

Kris Hampton  28:28

 What's the benefit in going back to that blue bell?

Paul Corsaro  28:32

Well, you know, you get to built some volume, there's, you know, increased volume at that weight is going to build your tissues tolerance to stress. You know, keep sending signals to adapt for that tissue. And also, you're going to keep grooving that pattern, keep getting better at that pressing pattern. You know, a heavier bell, you're going to, it's going to be required that you're going to have to generate more core tension, squeeze the glutes more, you know, access more of your body strength. So, you know, as you get more tired through your pressing arm with that lighter bell, you're gonna have to call all those other factors in the play. You're gonna have to squeeze the core more. You have to squeeze the glutes more. You have to squeeze that free hand more

Kris Hampton  29:10

Right

Paul Corsaro  29:11

So you know, letting that fatigue happen and forcing you to kind of bring other things into play while pressing that same weight bell is going to be a little bit less threatening and more approachable way to learning that skill of really, you know, dialing in.

Kris Hampton  29:29

Talking is hard, Paul. 

Paul Corsaro  29:30

Sure is. It's really gonna bring it,  help reinforce that skill of dialing into everything you need to do to get the most out of your body in terms of strength. And, you know, we've said this word a lot tonight but "tension" 

Kris Hampton  29:42

Yeah, you are really learning to create tension.

Paul Corsaro  29:43

How to get the most possible tension out of everything. So you know, it really highlights these learning opportunities, and instilling a sense of patience and really looking at getting good at moving well, instead of just trying to do a little bit more numberwise.

Kris Hampton  30:00

Yep. And that's something I really liked about the kettlebell ebook, the few times that I've gone through it, is that, I know that the next week, there's another round being added, so I'm not as tempted to try and jump up to the yellow bell, or move up to whatever that next size is, because I know next week, there's going to be more volume. It's going to be a little harder. And once you move through those weeks, consistently adding volume, the way that we do in the first phases of kettlebell plan, then moving up to that next bell becomes considerably easier than if we had just jumped up how we're taught to do, you know, soon as you can do it, then move to the next weight.

Paul Corsaro  30:50

Yeah, jumping up and then trying to do that increased volume, when you've tried to jump up, jump up in weight a little bit earlier than you should have, like, there's no way those sessions are gonna go as planned. Like, you're probably have to drop back down, you know, maybe a little bit of mental stress from that. God forbid something bad happens, injury wise, you know, it really helps promote a bit more patience this way.

Kris Hampton  31:13

Yep, I've heard....here's a question for you. I've heard a lot of people comment on getting stuck at a Turkish get-up weight in particular and I do think this is a tough exercise to advance in. And Nate suggested something to me, this past summer that I've employed and really liked, that I had just never even thought about. And that's that I do two get-ups in a row without putting the bell down. And I was like, "Mind blown", you know, like, "Oh, I don't just do one, get-up and put the bell back down."

Paul Corsaro  31:55

It gets way harder when you do more than one, doesn't it? Haha

Kris Hampton  31:58

It gets way harder that second time. And you really have to focus and you really have to dig in. Even at a weight that felt pretty damn easy on the first get up, the second one is like, "Alright, it's game time. I really have to focus on this one."

Paul Corsaro  32:14

We actually just had someone at Crux, finish up a Turkish getup cycle where she you know, she was owning the 35 pound kettlebell. She's actually not a climber, so she may never hear this. But she was owning the 35 pound kettlebell and then you know, she could get a single with the 44 pound kettlebell every now and then. And we just went through a cycle where she was doing three in a row with the 35 pound kettlebell for five sets. 

Kris Hampton  32:38

Wow. 

Paul Corsaro  32:39

Two weeks ago, she has done..... as of two weeks ago, she is doing consistent singles with a 55 pound kettlebell. 

Kris Hampton  32:46

Wow.

Paul Corsaro  32:47

All because of that. It just took a couple times a couple of weeks of just building volume with a slightly lighter bell than like a heavy single belt. 

Kris Hampton  32:53

Right. So that's a good a good method in your opinion? 

Paul Corsaro  32:58

I think so. Yep. 

Kris Hampton  32:59

Just to double up on those reps. And the reason that was kind of mind blowing to me, and I'm not, I'm not saying this is a fault in the program. It's more fault in the fact that I've not gotten the second, the double bell program out yet. So you know, you've got it mostly written, we just had to format it and put it out there into the world.

Paul Corsaro  33:20

It's been a minute, there will probably be some tweaks haha.

Kris Hampton  33:22

Haha it's been a while. So I've just repeated the single bell program over and over, and we're only doing single get ups in that program. We're doing some complexes where a get up is part of the complex, but it had just never occurred to me, "Well, shit, just do another get up before you put the bell on the floor." You know, so adding that volume, just like you would in a you know, adding rounds, adding reps of overhead presses or, or racks, half rack squats, or whatever it is.

Paul Corsaro  33:57

Another one I really like is doing a get up and at the top of get up, take it for a walk, doing like an overhead carry like down the length of the room and back and then get back down. Because you are pretty much at an overhead carry at the top of the getup. That's another good way to add some time under tension to the shoulder.

Kris Hampton  34:11

Yep. Yeah, super cool. Super cool. And I really just, I mean, I can't emphasize this enough, most of us have been steeped in this tradition of add half pound, add a pound, add two pounds, you know, just very slowly add weight. And what I see happens so often in that situation, and I've seen people try it with kettlebells. I watched a friend of mine damn near drop a kettlebell on his face because he wanted to do a get up with a bigger weight. He was like, "No, I just did that one." and I'm like, "No, you really didn't. That that didn't even resemble a Turkish get up", you know? And he's like, "No, I stood up with it. It was fine." And then he tried to do it with the next bell and and it hit the floor and he got his head out of the way, in time.

Paul Corsaro  35:05

I think you know, those big gaps had to help highlight that more than other weights

Kris Hampton  35:09

It highlighted it for sure.

Paul Corsaro  35:11

It's like after someone does their first 12a, or 11a or 10a or 13a or something, they don't immediately go and try 13b their next pitch or 12b their next pitch?

Kris Hampton  35:23

Or if they do it just, it.... most of the time it goes poorly.

Paul Corsaro  35:26

It usually doesn't go well.  Yeah, you know it, building volume at your limit, or just below your limit is key in pretty much anything you do performance wise.

Kris Hampton  35:36

Yeah, it's the same as trying to master that grade or two below what your very top grade is. You know, if you, if you want to climb 5.13, then mastering 12b, 12c and being able to climb a lot of that without getting really, really fatigued becomes a really important skill. Because that's what a lot of the moderate climbing on 13a is. And that's really similar to mastering a Turkish get up at one weight before making the jump to the next weight. And it encouraged the, you know, those those big gaps encourage that. And that doesn't happen with barbells.

Paul Corsaro  36:21

And by working on mastery, you know, you're gonna get a lot more growth that way.

Kris Hampton  36:26

Yeah, totally. Our number one for why we like kettlebells, especially for climbers, is that they really encourage athletic movement. It's not just pick up a heavyweight and set it down. There's quite a bit that goes into it. And I've I've used the Turkish get up as an example a lot of times and called it..... I think about it like a boulder problem. Like it's got all these little intricate parts, and you have to be really, really good at these intricate parts to make a successful Turkish get up. You know, it's like a, it's like a five move boulder problem.

Paul Corsaro  37:07

And especially on the way down when you're tired, like, if you're you start rushing or get impatient, things are gonna go south on you. But at the same time, if you like you understand that you're tired, and it's okay, and you just stay focused, stay deliberate and you know, remember your beta as a way to say it simply like, you know, you'll finish that get up. So it's a good kind of mental mental training for that.

Kris Hampton  37:30

Yeah. And I think that's the foundation of it, is something like the Turkish get up and treating it like a boulder problem. But then you move into these ballistic movements like swings and snatches, cleans even, that that are really, really athletic, and that you have to create all this momentum. You're swinging this big, heavy iron object around and then you have to stop it. And you have to control it. And you have to do that through your own tension. 

Paul Corsaro  38:02

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  38:03

And that's really what what athleticism is, is creating force and being able to have some control over what happens with that force.

Paul Corsaro  38:12

Absolutely. Yeah, flipping that switch of turning tension on and turning tension off. So you know, so a kettlebell swing, when you're exploding out of that backswing position, you know, you're generating a lot of force, you're getting tight, you're standing up into that plank. And then there, you're just holding that plank, holding that tension as the bell is floating. And the second that bell gets back into that backswing phase, you're being able to release that tension, throw that bell behind, you get a good stretch to the hamstrings, and then reverse that and bring it right back up into that plank. So you're basically standing up into a really tight hardstyle plank, relaxing as you reload and just doing that over and over and over again. Similar to say, you know, on a hard compression probe problem, where you're gonna explode off the foot, you know, hit a sloper and squeeze with all your body, you know, move your feet where you need to do it, get the foot in place, do that next move, get tight, relax, reset for the next move, get tight. 

Kris Hampton  39:04

Yep

Paul Corsaro  39:04

Relax. So again, we kind of talked about this in other episodes, but it's a simpler context for a skill that can be demonstrated in much more complex ways when climbing.

Kris Hampton  39:20

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the like the kettlebell swing, which is sort of the, you know, the bedrock with which kettlebell training is built on, almost everyone recognizes a kettlebell swing and they know what it is. I think a lot of people don't quite understand it, though. Trying to swing a heavy kettlebell is totally different than trying to swing a 20 pound kettlebell. And I'm not saying you should just jump in and swing a beast, but, but building up to that is something really important for the forces generated in really hard climbing. Learning how to control and I use the word control lightly there, because you're really just accepting its momentum, and then learning how to change the momentum. You're not really, you're not controlling it as much as you're just moving with it, and understanding it, you know,

Paul Corsaro  40:34

And making sure you're rooted into the ground, so the bell doesn't pull you forward.

Kris Hampton  40:38

Right. Yeah. So there's some level of control there and that's exactly what climbing is, you know. They're.... really hard moves, there's a level of out of control that has to be there. And if you can't toe that line, then you're going to end up unsuccessful. And I really think swinging a really heavy kettlebell, for me has been hugely important for toeing that line. Because I've I've taken it overboard. Like I've tried to swing a kettlebell when I'm not quite ready and I'm having to like stutter step a little to try and catch it.

Paul Corsaro  41:15

Swing, take a couple steps forward. Swing, take a couple steps forward

Kris Hampton  41:18

Yeah. And then I'm like, "Okay, I wasn't ready. Reset, put it on the ground, breathe, brace. Try again." You know, and that's exactly how climbing moves are. If you're not ready, you're not gonna latch the hold. But the better you can get at making yourself ready, at bracing, at creating that tension and being prepared for those forces that are about to happen, the faster you're going to be successful at those crux moves on your project.

Paul Corsaro  41:44

Yep. Yeah, and you know, that's kind of..... climbing is an athletic sport. Just like everything else, being able to tap into that athleticism is huge for success.

Kris Hampton  41:56

Yeah. And that's not saying that you can't learn these athletic movements through barbells and Olympic lifts, things like that. 

Paul Corsaro  42:04

Or even fast power lifts, like it's doable. 

Kris Hampton  42:06

Yeah, it's just totally doable. 

Paul Corsaro  42:08

It's just a way we like, you know.

Kris Hampton  42:09

Kettlebells are really easy intro into that, and, and not just an intro. I think they're an easy... it's easy to get a foothold in it. And then you can take it as far as you want with kettlebells, frankly. But there are other avenues. This isn't the only way to do that. This is just what we like.

Paul Corsaro  42:29

Yeah. We like them a lot.

Kris Hampton  42:32

Yeah. And you guys, if you haven't, check out the Kettlebells For Climbers ebook. If you if you have no experience with kettlebells, I had zero when I started this plan. And now I feel like I know quite a bit about how to use the kettlebell. And that's all through watching the videos that that Paul created for this plan. And it's going to go through all of the basics, the get ups, all of the presses, swings. You're going to learn a lot in this initial plan. You're going to learn how to structure your training so that you're adding volume. You're going to learn complexes, how to add.... how to take one kettlebell movement and transition it into another and then you know, wrap that whole movement up. And I just think it's a really great primer, and a great training plan for getting stronger for climbing.

Paul Corsaro  43:38

If you're ever curious about kettlebell work and want some in person instruction, you can always look up on the Strong First website. You can find an instructor close to you too.

Kris Hampton  43:48

Yeah, absolutely. If you're in the Chattanooga area, look up Paul at Crux Conditioning. He is also on the internets at CruxConditioning.com and on the Facebook's and the Instagrams @CruxConditioning. You know where to find us. PowerCompanyClimbing.com You can find that kettlebell ebook at PowerCompanyClimbing.com/ebook and on the Facebooks and the Instagrams, we are @PowerCompanyClimbing. You can look for Paul on Twitters 

Paul Corsaro  44:23

I'm not on there. 

Kris Hampton  44:24

You're not gonna find him and you're not gonna find Power Company Climbing on Twitters because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.