Episode 18: V11 to 5.11 with Carrie Cooper, DPT
Yes, you read that correctly. V11 to 5.11.
In this episode I have a really great conversation with V11 boulderer, mom, and physical therapist Carrie Cooper. She's set big goals for her sport climbing... but 5.11 is still difficult for her. Not necessarily physically, but it's hard nonetheless. We walk through her process, how she deals with the ego, and talk about what she's learning. Carrie takes a really smart approach to her fears... one that we can all learn from.
As a special addition to this episode, I also talk with Carrie's coach, Dan Mirsky, about his perspective on Carrie's situation and progress.
You can find Carrie at: Rev Physical Therapy
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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Kris Hampton 00:32
What's up everybody? I'm your host Kris Hampton. Welcome to Episode 18 of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. Before I go any further, I want to say a huge, huge thanks and a shout out to all of our patrons. We met our first monthly goal, which means that this podcast is commercial and sponsor free other than us in our own commercials, of course. And we're excited about that our next goal, which is to reach $100, a month would mean that we're going to look into getting more portable, so that Nate and I can each have a recording setup that's ultra portable, we could even take it to the crags interview people right after they came off their projects, we could talk pretty much anywhere in that situation. So that could really open up some doors. If you want to become a patron you can do that at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. That's definitely the best monetary way to help us out. And and we greatly appreciate it so big shout out to all of our current patrons. Thanks. We love you guys. Also, I just got shirts up on the website. So I've got to I've got tanks, I've got hoodies, it's all for sale, you can go to powercompanyclimbing.com. Click on the apparel tab. And you'll find all of those just in time for the Christmas season. You can stuff the stockings of your favorite partner, and rep your favorite training company at the crag. So go get on that. Today, I've got a pretty cool conversation. And yes, you read that title correctly it is V11 to 5.11 not the other way around how you might expect. I'm talking today with Carrie Cooper, who is mostly known as a boulderer. She is also a mom of two kids, a Doctor of Physical Therapy. She runs the Forefront Physical Therapy at the Front Climbing Gym and you can find her at forefrontslc.com if you're interested in checking out her services. She's super knowledgeable. So she probably a good place to look if you're having any troubles with your body over there in Salt Lake. And Carrie and I talked about her journey in becoming a sport climber. She has the sport climbing goals that she's stoked about. But she's a boulderer and sport climbing scares her a little bit. So we really dig into that. And I've got kind of a special treat to this episode. We're doing it a little bit different. So after the conversation with Carrie, which which we had to cut sort of short because we were on a pretty tight time schedule. She was getting the her Forefront PT opened up. And it was during OR. So we were both a little crazy at the time. And so we had to cut it a little short, but I did get the chance to talk to her coach Dan Mirsky just the other day and I recorded a short conversation with Dan talking about his work with Carrie so we get both perspectives here Carrie's and Dan's as the coach so after the conversation with Carrie stick around and listen to the short conversation with Dan. All right, I'm gonna get this thing going.
Carrie Cooper 03:57
I think that oftentimes we look at the successes more than we look at the failures and give more weight to success than we do failure but failure is such a part of the process.
Carrie Cooper 04:28
Up in Big Cottonwood Canyon
Kris Hampton 04:31
What's the sport climbing like up there never been there?
Carrie Cooper 04:33
That's funny cuz I really hadn't either.
Kris Hampton 04:37
Granite obviously, right?
Carrie Cooper 04:38
No, it's not granite.
Kris Hampton 04:40
No?
Carrie Cooper 04:40
It is something else. And I don't know what it is. I wish I had more information for you but I don't because I rolled up in there without a guide. Got a little bit lost ended up on a 35 meter sport climb, ran out of draws had to use some pitons were fixed, down, climbed, traversed, and realized that I was like 30 feet above, and 30 feet to the left of the anchors.
Kris Hampton 05:13
Oh, man, that sounds like a nightmare.
Carrie Cooper 05:15
It was kind of fun. Actually. It was a good adventure. That's good. It's really easy.
Kris Hampton 05:19
It's good it didn't freak you out of sport climbing?
Carrie Cooper 05:22
No, I definitely had a moment where I was like I should. I should just down climb and donate that quickdraw. Like, that would be the smart thing. But I was like, nope, I'm gonna stick with it. See what happens. I'm climbing on easy stuff. It'll be fine. And it was fine.
Kris Hampton 05:43
It usually is. It's, I don't think it's logic, though. I don't think logic applies. So I think that's a good segue into what we're going to talk about here. So...
Carrie Cooper 05:54
Right.
Kris Hampton 05:55
So you're you're known as a boulder. You're a strong Boulder. And you're apparently a cat lover, or at least cats love you.
Carrie Cooper 06:04
Maybe the cat just really likes...
Kris Hampton 06:05
The cat is like mauling your face on the microphone right now. But, uh, but sport climbing is something you've made some goals in.
Carrie Cooper 06:13
Mm hmm.
Kris Hampton 06:15
But it kind of freaks you out. Right?
Carrie Cooper 06:17
Right. It's it is an illogical fear. Most of it is related to the gear just not having had the experience with it. Not having pushed myself to my limits in sport climbing and really, you know, I can I can push through the crux. And then on the, you know, far easier, headwall, get completely scared and not be able to finish the route. It's completely illogical.
Kris Hampton 06:52
Yeah. So is it like a pump thing that causes you to freeze up? Is it? Because you're obviously strong enough for the cruxes of these routes? Let's, let's look at numbers really quick. And I know this sucks to look at numbers. But what would you consider yourself a solid boulder at what grade?
Carrie Cooper 07:10
I think the I've done more V10s than any other higher grade. I don't know that. That means that I'm a solid V10. climber or you've done i'm not i'm a solid V3 climber. Like I can pretty much climb any V3 on the planet.
Kris Hampton 07:25
That's always been my response when people in the gym are like, how hard Do you climb? Like I'm pretty good at 5.10.
Carrie Cooper 07:30
Yeah. Yeah.
Kris Hampton 07:32
So you've done lots of V10s correct?
Carrie Cooper 07:35
Yeah, I've probably done 50 V10s.
Kris Hampton 07:37
And then what's your solid level for sport climbing?
Carrie Cooper 07:42
As of today, 511d.
Kris Hampton 07:45
Well, that's yeah. See
Carrie Cooper 07:46
Which I was very, very, very proud of today.
Kris Hampton 07:49
Yeah, no doubt. That's cool. So before we get into the details of it, do you mind sharing your sport climbing goal?
Carrie Cooper 07:59
Sure.
Kris Hampton 08:00
Is Something we can put out into the ether?
Carrie Cooper 08:01
Of course. Yeah, you know, I, I'm a really big fan of goals. I think that having a really lofty goal is sometimes better than being short sighted and limiting yourself to the things that are easily graspable. But I believe in kind of a long term goal, short term goal scenario. So my long term goal right now is to climb 5.14. And my short term goal is to build up to that. So I have kind of this pyramid that I'm working with, with constant thought of, okay, how is this going to get me to that 5.14 goal?
Kris Hampton 08:44
Right.
Carrie Cooper 08:44
Like, how can I apply this to, I mean, not only the training for it, but also the mental, I guess, the mental fortitude that it would take to actually complete that goal.
Kris Hampton 08:55
Yeah, and the whole thing, the planning the, you know, you have to have the right partners, and they're gonna need to be around for your intermediate goals as well. So there's, it's definitely good that you've got this big lofty goal. And then you can you can break that down into smaller goals and be okay. Reaching the big lofty goal slowly, right. That's important.
Carrie Cooper 09:22
Yeah. And not getting frustrated with the process. Yeah,
Kris Hampton 09:25
No doubt.
Carrie Cooper 09:26
...taking a deep breath and going okay. What is what is the small success that I just had, like, trying to find that small success every time I go out, like today...
Kris Hampton 09:37
And really revel in those things,.
Carrie Cooper 09:38
Right. Mm hmm.
Kris Hampton 09:39
Yeah.
Carrie Cooper 09:39
And and let it let it guide the next day out. And I feel like, you know, slowly stacking all of those positives. It's yeah, it's a it's a success ladder.
Kris Hampton 09:54
Yeah. Now, where did you when you made this 5.14 goal? Where did you stand was sport climbing. Were you already aware that it was going to be a scary thing for you?
Carrie Cooper 10:03
For sure. Yeah, absolutely. And, and also aware of where I'm at right now. So when I decided that I wanted to climb 5.14, I was failing on 5.12s in the gym and getting really frustrated and upset with myself. And going well, I climb this. So I should climb this,
Kris Hampton 10:29
Right, because the moves on a 5.12 or V4 V5 tops.
Kris Hampton 10:34
Sure, but to me...
Kris Hampton 10:36
Whiich are things you warm up on regularly.
Carrie Cooper 10:38
Right. So to me a month ago, a 5.11 felt exactly like 5.14 because I was giving it the same amount of force.
Kris Hampton 10:49
Right.
Carrie Cooper 10:49
And so learning really what it takes to climb it all those different levels is a really fun journey. So I know the strength of what those those crux moves should feel like. So I'm really thankful for that. I feel like that's a really positive thing.
Kris Hampton 11:11
Right.
Carrie Cooper 11:12
And I just try to remind myself, when I'm there, and all the while, I'm kind of building up my endurance. Because I've, I've always been kind of that sprinter and not a runner kind of thing. Where I can just, you know, bear down and just push really hard through something for like seven moves.
Kris Hampton 11:32
Right.
Carrie Cooper 11:33
So the moment that I was touching the rock, I would start holding my breath immediately.
Kris Hampton 11:37
Yeah.
Carrie Cooper 11:38
And I would get to the second bolt and be like, Oh, I'm totally pumped right now. I have, there's just no way I can even make it to the top, let alone and it didn't matter what grade that was. It was always the same amount of force. So learning how to meter out the force.
Kris Hampton 11:56
Yep. And relax a little more when you can.
Carrie Cooper 12:00
Yes.
Kris Hampton 12:00
Yeah, and what was so what? Walk me through the ego that had to be kept in check. When you're going, okay, I'm, I'm getting pumped, and I'm failing on 5.11 climbing. When I know I can lower down right now. And do you know, a V8 on the other side of the gym?
Carrie Cooper 12:26
Right.
Kris Hampton 12:27
How did you handle that? I mean, you're, you're in a gym environment. So were you at all worried about people looking at you and saying, wait, I thought she was stronger? You know?
Carrie Cooper 12:37
Absolutely.
Kris Hampton 12:39
How do you deal with that?
Carrie Cooper 12:41
And that, that didn't come from anything outside. You know, that came from me having that discussion with myself and being like, you have to feel confident in the things that you've already done. And recognize that this is a huge goal. And this is something that I've set out to do. So many summers is just been a one right after the other. And I would just go straight to that hard thing. And try it and try it and get shut down and get frustrated. And then the moment that bouldering season was upon us, I would just go to what was easy and easy for me.
Kris Hampton 13:19
Right.
Carrie Cooper 13:19
And just go straight there.
Kris Hampton 13:20
Dive right back into the same place.
Carrie Cooper 13:22
Right. So starting early on, and being okay, with not making it to the level that I wanted to be at right off the get go. Like just always reminding myself, this is a goal. This is a goal. You have to stay on a course there's...
Kris Hampton 13:41
There's a process involved here. Yeah, I think that's really important. I think you started that out by saying that that conversation was all inside you that was you having conversation with yourself. And I think that's really easy for people to forget.
Carrie Cooper 13:56
Yes.
Kris Hampton 13:57
That they, they feel like people are watching them. So it becomes fact, like, yeah, people are watching me people think I suck, you know, whatever. When really it's just yourself thinking that people are watching you. Chances are there might be one catty girl in the gym who's watching, but but chances are no one's noticing, or or they've struggled with the exact same thing. So they know what's happening.
Carrie Cooper 14:23
I think that oftentimes we look at the successes, more than we look at the failures and give more weight to success than we do failure. But failure is such a part of the process.
Kris Hampton 14:34
Yeah. And a bigger part of it. I mean, we fail way more than we succeed.
Carrie Cooper 14:40
Absolutely.
Kris Hampton 14:41
You know, and if you don't fail more than you succeed, you're probably not trying very hard.
Carrie Cooper 14:45
Right.
Kris Hampton 14:45
Frankly.
Carrie Cooper 14:46
Yeah, I mean, we all want to be just really good at it. We want to just be able to say, I have only been doing this for a year and I'm...
Kris Hampton 14:54
Right. Yeah.
Carrie Cooper 14:56
...I'm climbing 5.14 It's not the reality. Yeah. And it's okay to fail. And once I realized for myself that it was okay to fail, I stopped looking to others. For an okay.
Kris Hampton 15:13
Yeah. And it doesn't matter where that failure happens. You know, it's like you see a lot of people failing on big numbers. I actually once heard someone in Red River Gorge, who is obviously in over their head, you know, on this 12b getting destroyed by it. And I overheard him say, "Well, at least I can tell everybody, I'm working at 12b now." And I was like, so he's probably failing on 11b as well. Yeah. But doesn't want to tell people I'm failing on 11b.
Carrie Cooper 15:48
Right.
Kris Hampton 15:48
So it sounds cooler to fail on a big number.
Carrie Cooper 15:51
Sure.
Kris Hampton 15:51
But but that's counterproductive. Yeah, you need to, you need to work your failures up just the same way you work your successes up.
Carrie Cooper 15:59
Absolutely. And I think that it for whatever your goal is challenging yourself on those things that you're maybe a little bit weaker at that aren't your strength will make you a better climber in total. So even if I don't, and that's another side of this, that is okay, that if I don't make my goal, and know that this is going to make me a better climber, on some level, I'm going to feel it. I'm already feeling it.
Kris Hampton 16:26
Yeah. Yeah. And it may very well and probably will help with your bouldering to some degree.
Carrie Cooper 16:32
Absolutely.
Kris Hampton 16:33
You know, if you can, the knowing how to relax part, especially, will be huge.
Carrie Cooper 16:39
The breathing.
Kris Hampton 16:40
Yeah. So are there things that you're specifically doing now? So now you're training with Dan Mirsky. The front training room.
Carrie Cooper 16:48
Right.
Kris Hampton 16:49
Are there specific things you guys do? Or that you do on your own?
Carrie Cooper 16:53
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 16:54
To kind of work through these breathing issues or relaxation issues.
Carrie Cooper 16:59
So a lot of what I do with Dan is looking at what is my what's like 80% of my max, and trying to prolong the amount of time that I can be at 80%. So that's, you know, mixing a boulder problem with rows and ball slams. And it's, it's extensive, and it's a lot of circuiting. So I get my upper body, my lower body, my heart gets involved, and I have to mentally calm everything back down and just say, okay, you know, the the part of this circuit is I'm going to do a boulder problem. And then I'm going to go and I'm going to row for 200 meters, I'm going to do eight ball slams, and I'm going to rest 30 seconds. And in that 30 seconds, it's enough time for me to put my climbing shoes back on and get back on the wall. So my heart rate is up high. But I look at it. And I'm like, okay, I've already done this rock climb. And I know that it's hard may have a big move right at the end, but I can do it. And I just have to settle down my system, enough to make it through that crux. And then I keep going. And I'm able to do like the endurance portion of it. And I think that's been not only helpful with increasing my overall endurance, but also, for example, I was sport climbing this morning. And there was I was reading the route. And typically, I'm really terrible at reading routes, I'll end up like 10 feet off route, and be like, hey, Carrie doing okay, up there. But today, I looked up and I was like, okay, I see that there's a crux above me. But that looks like a good hold. So I'll just push through the crux. And I'll be able to call my heart rate up on that hold up there, and maybe for the next few. And so I tried that. It was just it was total trial and error, just trying to apply what I'm doing in my training, and work through the moves of this rock climb. And it worked perfectly. And I was like, Wow.
Kris Hampton 19:08
That's cool. How that works.
Carrie Cooper 19:11
That is direct application.
Kris Hampton 19:14
Yeah, for sure. And just just a note about the thing that Dan has you doing. I think another important part of that, you know, getting to a fatigue level. And then getting back onto a rock climb and pushing yourself through that you know you can do it. important note about that is especially if you're getting to climb outside at the same time. It really helps to save skin to do those rows or ball slams or whatever it is that you're doing to get your fatigue level up to get your heart rate up. And then you get back on the rock climb instead of just doing rock climbs at 80%.
Carrie Cooper 19:52
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 19:53
Where there might be technical failure or whatever. This way you're getting on something, you know Well, you're saving skin and then you get on it.
Carrie Cooper 20:02
Absolutely.
Kris Hampton 20:03
And get the test out.
Carrie Cooper 20:04
Because a lot of times, even on a route, you know, there's there's an obvious section of hard climbing, followed by basically easy climbing that you're just kind of moving through...
Kris Hampton 20:15
Right, which is where you said you were failing.
Carrie Cooper 20:17
Exactly. Which is my, I'm really excited about the success today, just just in the process of being able to work through that, like it's it's been, it has increased my confidence in achieving my goal. Like today, it was kind of a big day for me.
Kris Hampton 20:35
Yeah.
Carrie Cooper 20:36
Even though the number wasn't huge.
Kris Hampton 20:38
And what are some of the successes that you've found along the way? And, and not not number wise, but, you know, are there days where you just revel in the fact that you had fun? Instead of getting stressed out? You know..
Carrie Cooper 20:53
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 20:54
What are some of the things that you've noticed along the way that that felt like success for you?
Carrie Cooper 20:59
Are we talking about even with bouldering, or...
Kris Hampton 21:02
With sport climbing, like with with battling this, this demon that you're fighting with now.
Carrie Cooper 21:08
Um, some of the successes are breathing, and reminding myself to breathe, and working that into the flow of the climb? I think that that was a huge. Yeah, that changed my climbing a lot. Because if I could rest, and then be able to breathe in and out through my nose, then I knew I can move on from there. And if I couldn't, then I was probably only going to make it about three more moves and then fall. And so that understanding how my breathing has been, how my breathing works, has been a big success. The other one is so many things.
Kris Hampton 22:05
So are there are there times when you feel like, like, I know, you're a you're a very mindful climber?
Carrie Cooper 22:12
Oh, I just thought of a really, really important one.
Kris Hampton 22:14
Hit me with it.
Carrie Cooper 22:15
Sorry. I'm a little bit OCD about the safety aspect of climbing.
Kris Hampton 22:20
For sure. Which is not a bad thing.
Kris Hampton 22:24
Right.
Kris Hampton 22:25
But unless you let it scary,
Carrie Cooper 22:27
Yeah. And I was definitely letting it scare me. I would, of course, check my check my my belayer check myself before I got on the rack. But then I would check my knot, probably every three or four moves.
Kris Hampton 22:41
Right .
Carrie Cooper 22:41
And look at the rope and look at my harness and go, Oh, well, I'm in a no fall zone. Like if I if something gives I'm on the ground, I'm dead. I'm and that would just...
Kris Hampton 22:52
So your assuming a point of failure is gonna happen there?
Carrie Cooper 22:55
Correct. And so I, I set it upon myself to check my knot once, check my belayer while I was on the ground, and then just forget about it.
Kris Hampton 23:09
Yeah.
Carrie Cooper 23:09
Just go. And that was really big, because then it allowed me to flow and be more efficient.
Kris Hampton 23:18
Yeah, I think that's huge. You know, I tell a lot of people and I do this, almost religiously, that when I'm getting onto a climb, I discuss it with my belayer you know, if particularly if they don't know, that, here's where I might fall, here's where I'm going to struggle. Here's where I'm going to do a big move and need more rope. You can give me more rope than you think I'm not going to hit the ground. You know, I go over the whole thing with them. Because then it puts it out of my mind. Like I don't get up there and wonder if they are paying attention and know what's happening. You know, so so I try to ease my mind before I even leave the ground. And I think that's huge. Instead of getting up there and freaking out because you don't know you you and your belayer aren't communicating.
Carrie Cooper 24:06
That's huge.
Kris Hampton 24:07
Yeah.
Carrie Cooper 24:07
Create a relationship of trust before you even leave the ground.
Kris Hampton 24:11
Yeah, exactly. And it's mines not based on fear. It's just based on I want to I want to get rid of any excuse I have up there to let my mind wander.
Carrie Cooper 24:21
Absolutely.
Kris Hampton 24:22
Yo know, I want to be focused in on what I'm doing. And and I always climb better when I do. So are there times in your in your sport climbing journey that you're in? Because you're a really mindful climber and you pay close attention to your movement and your breathing and your flow. Have you seen levels of relaxation because I feel like a lot of people just they want instant gratification like I've been practicing relaxing now I need to be relaxed. Like there's no there are no levels there.
Carrie Cooper 24:57
No I and I've been yes, recognizing I always heard this term, you can rest there and just get it all back. And I still don't really understand that yet. I get it a little bit. Because you have to be able to be okay with being slightly uncomfortable.
Kris Hampton 25:19
Sure.
Carrie Cooper 25:19
And moving with that discomfort and being okay with it. And it's a little bit like the the double check of the knot. Before you start moving, if you're say you're pumped, and you're getting a little uncomfortable, and you're not sure of the moves, or you're on siding, recognizing that, okay, I can still squeeze my fist and make this this move. I'm just going to relax and do it. Because the pump is going to be there, it's never going to go away completely. I mean, what's for climbers rest for like an hour, between ferns on their projects. So it obviously takes a long time. So while you're on a route, it's not going to go away completely. You're not going to find this, like total body relaxation, you're rock climbing. And I think the moment that, especially for me, I realized that okay, I'm pumped, but I can still climb these moves. Okay, cool. Let's do this. You know, it's that fix it and forget it kind of thing.
Kris Hampton 26:24
Yep. And that's another important part of the training is you get to learn all the levels of pumped. Because a lot of beginning.
Carrie Cooper 26:33
I'm surprised we don't have different words for pumped. Like...
Kris Hampton 26:38
Yeah, there definitely need to be. Well, there's a route and Red River Gorge called 50 Words for Pump. So...
Carrie Cooper 26:43
Oh, wow.
Kris Hampton 26:44
We need to figure those out. But my fiance always she'll complain about being pumped really quickly on a route. And I'm like, you're still moving perfectly in control. You look great. You're not pumped yet. You know, that's not pumped yet. And she said that once while our mutual friend Brittany Griffith was standing nearby. And Brittany said, well, that's rock climbing. I'm pumped all the time. When I leave the ground, when I get to the top, I'm pumped. So I reminder of that all the time. Because to her pump, meant... you know, shut down. Right now I'm about to fall because I'm pumped. But the training that you're doing lets you learn how much further you can go.
Carrie Cooper 27:28
Yes. And when I first started, like day one, I was feeling the pump all the way into my back fascia and up into my forehead.
Kris Hampton 27:36
Right, right.
Carrie Cooper 27:37
And I really could hardly drive myself home. I was like, This is never gonna work. This is awful.
Kris Hampton 27:47
So did you were you training before the sport climbing thing with with a coach?
Carrie Cooper 27:52
No.
Kris Hampton 27:52
Start working with Dan specifically for the sport climbing?
Carrie Cooper 27:55
Specifically for this. Yeah.
Kris Hampton 27:57
Yeah. I think that's something a lot of people can learn from because you're a you're a talented rock climber. You're an experienced climber. But you felt the need for some reason to reach out to a coach who could push you through. Why was that?
Carrie Cooper 28:13
Well, I've always had an interest. No, I wouldn't say always within the last maybe three years. So I had my second child. And then three months later, I went to Physical Therapy school. So that basically took my rock climbing and dropped it down. But like far below what I was basically starting from scratch, and so I could get myself back up to an area that was comfortable. But I was you know, I was plateauing out at V6. And I was like, I can't, I don't know how to push past this because I'd never trained for rock climbing. And I had some friends of mine in the shrine crew. So Steve Maisch and Justin Wood. And I was just talking to them about it. And they were like, you should come and train with us. And that's how I started working on the Moon board. And working with them helped me push through my, my plateau. And then...
Kris Hampton 29:13
Into some uncomfortable zones
Carrie Cooper 29:15
Yeah, absolutely. I would. It wasn't something that I was doing religiously, by any means. It was like, oh, okay, well, we'll go on this day together. And it wasn't anything where I had like a plan. I kind of had a plan here and there. But I really didn't stick to it.
Kris Hampton 29:31
So it was more like working out.
Carrie Cooper 29:33
Yeah, it was it was adding a little bit of a yeah, some spice to my workout.
Kris Hampton 29:40
Yeah. But it lets you see that, that getting into those uncomfortable zones in in a training setting is going to be helpful.
Carrie Cooper 29:50
Yeah, I was always kind of the anti training person because I climbed in Flagstaff. And at the time, I never climbed in a gym. Never, ever I could climb outside all year round.
Kris Hampton 30:02
Yeah.
Carrie Cooper 30:03
And that was, you know, I had there was the it was the circuit at the Priest Draw, you know, where I had specific problems that I would go to, and it was two tries and your out. And if you make it to the end of your circuit, if it's a perfect circuit, then you can add a rock climb, or you can work on your project, or, you know, something like that. So that was how I trained by bringing in that kind of gym.
Kris Hampton 30:27
You were bouldering, you were kind of it's, it's really easy for all of us to find a comfort zone and stay in it.
Carrie Cooper 30:34
Absolutely.
Kris Hampton 30:35
You know, and I commend you for stepping outside of it, particularly if you have to take a little blow to the ego and, you know, take a step down and work back up to a place where you, you might have thought you should be. That's really hard to do.
Carrie Cooper 30:53
Thanks.
Kris Hampton 30:53
Yeah. Thanks for sitting down with me.
Carrie Cooper 30:56
It's such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Kris Hampton 31:00
Do not go anywhere. We've still got more coming up. Big thanks to Carrie for taking time out and sitting down with me. And you're not alone out there. If you're scared of sport climbing, if you get in your own head while you're climbing. You're not alone. It happens to even really, really strong climbers like Carrie. So let's take a quick break. And then we'll be back with Dan.
Kris Hampton 31:27
What's up everybody, Kris here, pardon the interruption. I'll keep this short and sweet. Since this podcast started taking off, and we've been growing it, you guys have been asking how you can help out, I've got three ways for you. Number one, you can become a patron. That just means you give a monthly donation to the podcast $1 and up, and you get something in return. And you can check out what those rewards are at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. Best of all, we'll keep it sponsor and commercial free for you. Number two, you can rate us and review us on iTunes. I know it's a pain in the ass to go to iTunes and do all that. But it really helps us out. At least that's what I'm told by the podcast powers that be. And number three, perhaps the easiest way and the best way to help us out is to share us on your social medias. Anytime you see us post up a new podcast, please share it with your friends, tag people who will really appreciate it, or who need to hear the advice that we're giving. All right, thank you guys. And back to the show.
Kris Hampton 32:32
But yeah, I'm so I want to talk to you about one of your clients who had a conversation with at OR. And we had a quick talk because she was busy with all the OR goings on. But but a really great talk. And the talk was about her like journey from V11 to 5.11. You know, and we talked about her 5.14 goal that she made and her struggle with sport climbing and and what that looks like so far.
Dan Mirsky 33:01
Yep.
Kris Hampton 33:02
And I just kind of wanted to get your insight into what it was like being on the coaching end of that.
Dan Mirsky 33:09
Yeah, for sure.
Kris Hampton 33:09
So, in my mind, that's a cool situation to be in because you've got this super strong boulderer. And you know, the skills for sport climbing because you're a sport climber ya know, largely. And what was it like when she came in and said, I want to climb 5.14 What was your initial reaction to that?
Dan Mirsky 33:34
We use names right?
Kris Hampton 33:36
Yeah, yeah.
Dan Mirsky 33:37
So Carrie Cooper's a is someone I actually just got to know this year as new to Salt Lake and, and she is now become involved with the business I work in at the Front Climbing Gym, and she's got her physical therapy center there. And you know, it's really cool us just becoming friends this summer and learning and learning about each other's people and as climbers. And yeah, she started talking to me about wanting to transition from sport climbing. And from bouldering to sport climbing, and at that point, I don't even think I was even aware of how badass of a boulderer Carrie was.
Kris Hampton 34:12
Right. Right.
Dan Mirsky 34:13
So I was kind of like, Oh, yeah, sure, you know, like, you know, we can we can take a bouldeerr and make you a sport climber. Just take a little bit of building some endurance. And then we kind of started climbing together a little bit bouldering in the front, and I was like, Wow. Alright.
Kris Hampton 34:29
Like she's strong. She's for real.
Dan Mirsky 34:31
She's really strong. Yeah. And so that was then got really more exciting for me. Because you get a lot of boulders I think who assume that because the moves are easier. The transition to sport climbing is gonna be easy.
Kris Hampton 34:45
Right, right.
Dan Mirsky 34:46
You know, and then they they get to the third bolt where the boulder problem ends and they get pumped, they fall off and they can't figure out why they fell off the wall and then they just complain about being pumped and and some of that happens with Carrie for sure.
Kris Hampton 34:59
Yeah.
Dan Mirsky 35:00
And the one thing that's been awesome with Carrie, I think, is her willingness to go through the process. You know?
Kris Hampton 35:07
Yeah, we talked a lot about that. And for her, she told me that the process used to end like, like until she worked with you, she would like make this 5.14 goal. Go like, go bang her head against the wall on some hard route. And then as soon as bouldering season came, she was like, fuck it. I'm done. I'm going bouldering you know, and I just talked to her yesterday, and she's out sport climbing with the girls in St. George.
Dan Mirsky 35:35
St. George, up at the Wailing Wall and Cathedral.
Kris Hampton 35:38
Yeah, not bailed out to bouldering yet, which is pretty cool. She's seeing this thing through.
Dan Mirsky 35:42
She's sticking with it. Yeah, you know, and that, for someone like her with the strength, she already possesses the skills she possesses. It's just that stick to-itiveness that she's got to get through. Yep. But yeah, I mean, what one of the things I was trying to do with Carrie was have her simultaneously build a base by having a cut her teeth on 5.11 and get pumped and fall off. And then also, I would, I would have her try the 5.14 sport routes, I was trying when we'd go out climbing together, so that she was building that base. And also building that understanding that she was totally capable of doing these harder rock climbs.
Kris Hampton 36:20
Right.
Dan Mirsky 36:20
And it was just this one other the other part had to they had to merge, you know, so like, her skill set her strength and power are there. She was doing moves on 5.14 I mean, she was basically doing as well in the 5.14s that she was doing on the 5.12s.
Kris Hampton 36:33
Right.
Dan Mirsky 36:34
Because she just didn't have the fitness yet.
Kris Hampton 36:35
Yeah. And she didn't really have her head wrapped around.
Dan Mirsky 36:38
Yeah, yeah, the head has been a big one for her. You know?
Kris Hampton 36:41
We talked about that quite a bit. And I think what you just outlined is a cool way for almost anybody to approach their sport climbing goals, you know, build your base up, but at the same time, go check out what what the hard routes are. Do you know if your big goal is 12b. Go get on 12b's once in a while
Dan Mirsky 36:58
Know what it's all about. Yeah, totally. Man. You don't know. You know, you build up this idea in your mind how hard something's going to be. And you build it up beyond what it really is.
Kris Hampton 37:09
Yeah, you just romanticize it.
Dan Mirsky 37:10
Yeah. And then you're scared of it. Yeah. Like that. There's not even holds up there. I haven't learned like the level 10 magic trick to to levitate yet.
Kris Hampton 37:20
Neither have I.
Dan Mirsky 37:20
But there's always holds up there.
Kris Hampton 37:22
Yeah, totally.
Dan Mirsky 37:25
And one thing I think I realized with Carrie, after spending a little bit time with her, and this is I think another thing that's common with boulderser is with sport climbers. There's a with getting pumped and climbing even there's just a willingness to be uncomfortable.
Kris Hampton 37:44
Yeah.
Dan Mirsky 37:45
When you're bouldering. And you're executing hard boulder problems, especially the way that Carrie climbs when you see her do something well, I mean, you're like, was that V11? Or was that v3?
Kris Hampton 37:55
Right.
Dan Mirsky 37:56
She just crushed it.
Kris Hampton 37:57
Yep.
Dan Mirsky 37:57
She likes things to be like that, too as a person, even I've noticed it with her. And so I try to get her into situations that just make her a little uncomfortable. You know, not like scary, but a little bit so she gets, you know, alright, with being out there on lead, because that's definitely an issue for her and just kind of climbing, pumped and uncomfortable.
Kris Hampton 38:18
Yeah.
Dan Mirsky 38:18
I think that as much as the fitness component is, is a big part of that transition from bouldering to sport climbing has been for her.
Kris Hampton 38:26
Yeah, totally, we talked a little bit about that you would have her do circuits in the gym, and then have to, you know, execute a boulder problem that she could already do.
Dan Mirsky 38:36
Totally.
Kris Hampton 38:36
And I think that's a really great way to approach someone who's already an athlete already understands their body and understands what they can do under duress, you know, and to teach them that this is I can still do these moves, regardless of what my heart rates doing, regardless of how tired I am, how pumped I feel, you know, whatever. And then Carrie can make those connections because she's an athlete.
Kris Hampton 39:02
Totally,
Dan Mirsky 39:02
I think that's super athlete and a practitioner. You know, yeah, exactly. She's an amazing Physical Therapist. She's done some some work kind of in a Pilates style and also dry needling with me to help me with some stuff she got.
Kris Hampton 39:15
She understands all that.
Dan Mirsky 39:16
She gets it.
Kris Hampton 39:17
Yeah.
Dan Mirsky 39:17
But at the same time, she's so she's she can be resistant to it to where I like, i'm like...
Kris Hampton 39:24
I think that's true of any athlete.
Dan Mirsky 39:25
Oh, for sure.
Kris Hampton 39:26
You get them... the higher level they are the more resistant they can be to something
Dan Mirsky 39:29
Yeah, you know, and but it's been, I think, you know, it took a little bit of her trusting me to let me get her out of that comfort zone.
Kris Hampton 39:37
Yeah.
Dan Mirsky 39:38
You know, and that's something that part of of recognizing, you can still climb when you feel blown up or uncomfortable. Your heart rates through the roof. Something we all figure out when we climb on a rope, but it's not something you necessarily do when you're executing hard boulders.
Kris Hampton 39:52
Yeah.
Dan Mirsky 39:53
You know, so that I think that was like one of my big focus points with Carrie and I think has been helpful for her for sure.
Kris Hampton 39:59
Yep. I think it's pretty cool that, that you started this by talking about Carrie as a friend, because that's a big part of building a relationship with your clients. And, and I think that means a lot to her too. And I think that's a big part of her journey in this is having somebody she trusts ...
Dan Mirsky 40:17
Yeah.
Kris Hampton 40:17
Like you on the other side saying, you know, this is what we need to do. And and then she can follow that a little better than if she just reads it in a book or...
Dan Mirsky 40:29
Totally
Kris Hampton 40:29
...or on a you know, an online article or whatever.
Dan Mirsky 40:32
Definitely. Yeah. So yeah. Now Carrie, and I quickly became good friends.
Kris Hampton 40:37
Yeah.
Dan Mirsky 40:37
And then almost realized that we were like, should have been siblings somehow, like, I call her sister. She calls me brother like,
Kris Hampton 40:46
Yep.
Dan Mirsky 40:46
I think it took like three days before we just started having that good bickering relationship. But I have to remind her, you know who the coach is sometimes still.
Kris Hampton 40:54
Yeah. So before we wrap this up, where she at now? Like, where do you see her sport climbing at at the moment?
Kris Hampton 41:01
Um, I would I know.
Kris Hampton 41:03
It's been a couple months since I talked to her.
Dan Mirsky 41:04
Yeah, it's been a couple months. I know she she did have a little bit of like, getting psyched. I want to go bouldering
Kris Hampton 41:10
Yeah. And sure.
Dan Mirsky 41:11
You know, as a as a coach, you want to push people in the direction that they said they want to go in?
Kris Hampton 41:17
Yep.
Dan Mirsky 41:17
But also you want to see climbers being psyched on what they're doing.
Kris Hampton 41:21
Yeah totally.
Dan Mirsky 41:21
And I saw her kind of having some initial good progress with the sport climbing, then maybe seeing a little bit of frustration and plateau. I also didn't want her to lose all her power and strength.
Kris Hampton 41:32
Right, right.
Dan Mirsky 41:33
She had, you know, she started getting into Little Cottonwood and doing her thing up there. And I saw that as really good. You know, I wanted Carrie to like climb and feel good about her climbing.
Kris Hampton 41:41
Totally.
Dan Mirsky 41:41
So I'm guessing right now she's probably up at the Wailing Wall. Crushing 5.12. And I hope the other gal she's with are encouraging her to get on some some of the harder 5.13 routes up there. And I think in no time she could be doing something like Resurrection. That's kind of the one that I'm I've been following her on social and like, try Resurrection dude.
Kris Hampton 42:02
Yeah is Resurrection 13.b?
Dan Mirsky 42:03
13.b.
Kris Hampton 42:04
Yeah.
Dan Mirsky 42:04
Yeah. One of the one of the best lines up there, just that gray, blue limestone and features like Hueco Tanks like these ears that just won't come off the wall. It's rad. So.
Kris Hampton 42:16
So cool.
Dan Mirsky 42:16
That's where I see her. She sticks with it. I think this winter, easy. She gets to 5.13. And then we just keep going from there.
Kris Hampton 42:24
Awesome. Yeah, that's cool. And I think it's it's good that you've got like a realistic plan that you're not like, Oh, you climb V11. You should just go Project bouldery 5.14, and be over it.
Dan Mirsky 42:33
Totally. Right.
Kris Hampton 42:34
I think that's really cool. She's got a good approach to it. So I think this can be valuable to everybody.
Dan Mirsky 42:39
Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's a difference between just applying your bouldering skills and finding the easiest or not sorry, not easiest, but the the route that's most applicable to your bouldering skill set, or there's becoming a sport climber.
Dan Mirsky 42:52
And that's what's awesome about Carrie is she's actually taking the time and investing the energy to become a sport climber, you know, and then, and then once you once you go through that initial process, like we all did, then you can be a boulderer and a sport climber.
Kris Hampton 42:52
Right.
Kris Hampton 43:05
Totally. Absolutely.
Dan Mirsky 43:06
I think she's gonna be great at both.
Kris Hampton 43:08
Alright, cool, man. Thanks for thanks for sitting down and talking to me about it.
Dan Mirsky 43:11
Yeah, buddy.
Kris Hampton 43:14
What a great team needs to make Carrie takes a really great approach to the process and accepting failure, because that's a, you know, that's the biggest part of the process. That's how we learn. And she also is was able to let go of that ego that, that she realized she's creating herself. And I think that's huge. And having a coach like Dan, who knows the ins and outs and who's really invested in Carrie's performance, and in her well being. I think that that goes a really, really long way. And I have a feeling, Carrie's gonna get that 5.14 goal before long at all. So big thanks to Carrie. And big thanks to Dan for sitting down and taking time out to talk with me. And I've got more coming from both of them. So stay tuned. And I've got more coming from lots of people. You guys are getting spoiled here with these every week episodes. We'll keep them going to the end of the year, though, and then we'll see what it looks like from there. If you want to help out. I've already told you all the ways you can buy shirts, you can become a patron at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. Help this thing keep growing in a cool direction. You can share us on your social medias. That's the Facebook's. That's the Instagrams. That's the Pinterest. And before I go any further, you guys know what's next. Right? But I have to say shout out to Carl. Carl sent me an email. Very jokingly telling me that it's not actually an eagle sound I use it's Red Tailed Hawk. But uh, Carl, I hate to tell you. That Red Tailed Hawk identifies as an eagle. So who are you to tell him different? We don't tweet. We scream like eagles.