In this episode I sit down with strength coach, climber, and multisport athlete Charlie Manganiello, from ClimbStrong, to find out how we can all perform in multiple sports.  Charlie takes a common sense, no bullshit approach to his training and performance, and even though I've chosen to dedicate my energy completely to climbing, I appreciate that candor.  

We can't all climb all the time, and some of us choose not to, even if we could, so we can all learn a little about planning and expectations from this conversation with Charlie.  Even if you're only switching from sport climbing to bouldering, like I do, there is a different approach required, and Charlie's philosophies are applicable.  

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:00

 What's up everybody, I'm your host, Kris Hampton. Welcome to Episode 14 of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com sitting here at Land of the Arches campground in lovely Red River Gorge, where temps have just recently dropped below the 80s, which thank goodness for that, we can actually get some real rock climbing in. First of all, before I go anywhere else, I just want to say shout out to all of our patrons, some of you guys have really stepped up and come through for us. And what that means is that these guys are just basically, you know, donating a monthly sum to the podcast. And, you know, they just are helping us keep this thing commercial and sponsor free, which is how we want it to be except for our own commercials. And you can do that at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast if you're interested. And if you're not, there's some other ways that you can help as well. We don't expect everybody to shell out money. So I did make a plea on our Facebook page. And a lot of you shared that, and a lot of you rated and reviewed us on iTunes, which I'm super stoked about. And I'd love for you guys who don't follow us on the social medias. Because that's not for everybody. I'd love for you guys to go check out iTunes as well and rate us and review us. Apparently, it really helps. I don't know how it really helps. But the podcast powers that be tells that it does. So if you could go on their radios and reviewers that will be helpful. And if you do in return, because you know, if you guys do something for me, I want to do something in return for you. I will put out four extra episodes over the next two months. Because I've got like 24 or 26 episodes recorded and ready to go. And at this current pace that could take us a year to get them all out two years. So you know, I'd like to get these things out there into the world. They're great conversations, and you guys need to hear it. So go rate us review us and I will put out some extra episodes for you in the very near future. So today's guest, Charlie Manganiello, we talked with Charlie on episode eight, the deadlifting episode, Charlie works with Steve Bechtel over at Climb Strong. And he also coaches at Elemental Performance and Fitness in Lander, Wyoming. And I really, you know, a lot like Steve, I appreciate Charlie's sort of no nonsense, very common sense approach to strength training and training for sports. And Charlie is also a very humble, multi sport athlete, he goes pretty hard at some other sports. And that's what I wanted to sit down and talk to Charlie about is how you can climb well trained for climbing, and also perform well on these other sports. So let's get on with it.

Charlie Manganiello  03:48

You know, your first step off a peak is is down, it's never up. And you can either choose to fall and tumble off that peak by beating your head against the wall and trying to climb harder, or you intentionally walk off the top of that peak, give yourself a little pat on the back, and then put your head down and it's into the next cycle.

Kris Hampton  04:18

Why don't we? Why don't we just start with you telling me you're had to toot your own horn a little bit here. You don't seem like the guy who does that a lot. But...

Charlie Manganiello  04:29

I don't like to.

Kris Hampton  04:30

 I'm gonna force you here. Talk to me about the sports you're involved in and kind of what level you're at with them. Because I know you do some other things than climbing and you do them well. So toot your own horn a little bit here.

Charlie Manganiello  04:45

 Oh, man, man, everyone's gonna make fun of me. Oh, here we go. My name is Charlie...

Kris Hampton  04:49

Only in Wyoming. Are they gonna make fun of you? 

Charlie Manganiello  04:51

That's true. 

Kris Hampton  04:52

And they're not gonna listen to that here so..

Charlie Manganiello  04:55

My name is Charlie Manganiello the sports I'm primarily involved with say in the last five years would be climbing. Mixed between trad alpine climbing and sport climbing and bouldering I guess, skiing, lots of backcountry skiing and kind of mountain running or I guess they call it ultra marathoning now, no races. with that. 

Kris Hampton  05:18

I think just I think there's difference between mountain running and ultra marathoning and I'm just going to go ahead and say that

Charlie Manganiello  05:22

My friend always teases me he says anything over whatever the 26.1 for marathons is, he's considered an ultra.

Kris Hampton  05:30

Anything over about 45 feet, I consider too far. So...

Charlie Manganiello  05:34

That's true. The levels I man tried climbing scares the crap out of me. But I do like it. And I like to do the 5.8 5.9 fun stuff, primarily in the wind, river range, Red Rocks, stuff like that. The climbing the bouldering is something that I started off doing and took pretty seriously. And I've gotten up into the V9 range. I've been super close on some 10s I'm not quite there. It's definitely a goal that's in my mind and hope to get there soon. And then the sport climbing in this past year is something I've really focused on with Climb Strong and Steve at the gym at Elemental Performance and Fitness here in lander. And it's been super humbling. You know, people are like, man, you're such a strong boulder or you're gonna crush 13s. And I think it's a little bit of a mental thing for me just getting past the like, I can do this. Not like you're falling or anything. But it is crazy how you can really just tell yourself that you're not able to climb a certain grade. 

Kris Hampton  06:40

Yeah, it's pretty easy to defeat yourself before you leave the ground.

Charlie Manganiello  06:42

Yeah, and just shut down. But yeah, I've been psyched. It's been really fun. I really almost kind of felt like I've learned how to climb again. Cool by doing more sport climbing and like, Wow, it really makes a difference if your foot stays on or not. And bouldering you can kind of expend that energy and it doesn't really always matter because it's only eight moves anyways.And you can be cool and powerful and get the photo for the big leg swing. But yeah, so 12c is my hardest redpoint to date, which is really cool. I'd like to get to 13a 13b I've got I've got some projects that I think will go but will take more time. And then the skiing. I grew up Alpine racing. I'm New Englander or New England pack powder. So I learned how to ski and really only ski on ice. A couple powder days here and there.

Kris Hampton  07:31

That sounds absolutely horrifying. 

Charlie Manganiello  07:33

Yeah, I mean, it Yeah, I like to think it It builds some character for me when I was young. I mean, I just remember being at Wildcat or at Attash up there and the Mount Washington Valley like 20 30 below and skimpy asked yes suit. And, and I was also super small I was I technically was a pretty good skier. But I was racing against like kids that were like 160 180 and I'm your typical climber build. I was super small and skinny. And so I was just a fart in the wind really on the on the hill compared to those dudes. But uh, it has been fun to come out here to Wyoming. I guess I've been here since 2011. And get trained up on my level one and level two avalanche certifications and get into backcountry skiing and actually been super fun. It's been a way to kind of mix the climbing and the skiing, where there's some systems involved with ropes and we're pals to get into some gnarly cool ours up in the Tetons or Togwotee Pass where Lander folks usually ski. And it's been fun actually, BJ is a really good skier BJ Tilden.

Kris Hampton  08:39

Yeah. And I see the photos and I just choose to ignore them because it makes no sense to me.

Charlie Manganiello  08:45

Yeah, it's a it's a whole other ballpark back there. But yeah, I'd love to ski the Grand one of these days. But yeah, I've put myself in some no fall zones on skis.

Kris Hampton  08:57

And it's been super fun. Now, Steve mentioned something to me about records on these things that you're looking toward, on either skiing or running in the mountains or something to that effect. He didn't give up many details. So that's why I'm makig you give them up?  Oh, man. You could just pry them out of me. I there's a ton of really good Landers. Runners here in Lander and runners in the Tetons, I kind of have my own like personal best. And I guess if you're really asking me to toot my own horn, I would say I'm above average. I've kind of set some my own personal goals with running. I was injured last season, so I wasn't climbing much but running Wind River peak hits the southern, the highest peak in the southern Winds up around just low 13,000 feet. It's like a 26 ish mile run. And I've done that in eight and a half hours and I think the fastest known time is like seven and a half. That was quite a long time but it was cool to kind of train for that. And... Yeah

Charlie Manganiello  10:01

Do it. And then another goal of mine last season was to do Gannett peak in a day. And that's Wyoming's highest point. And that's also in the northern Wind River range. And I was able to do that, and just over 16 hours.

Kris Hampton  10:17

I don't even understand.

Charlie Manganiello  10:19

And that's, and that's 37 miles, but it's super humbling, because the record on that is like, just over eight hours.

Kris Hampton  10:26

Wow.

Charlie Manganiello  10:26

 I just wanted to finish it in 24. Yeah. But I think I could go faster on that.

Kris Hampton  10:31

Cool. Yeah, one of the one of the reasons I want to talk about this stuff is not because I'm a runner, because I ran cross country around my high school ages, but those days are long gone. 

Charlie Manganiello  10:44

Sure. 

Kris Hampton  10:45

You know, I don't even like to drive cross country now. But a lot of my clients do they love to run and, and a lot of climbers do, you know, just it's a good activity if you're up in the mountains, and it seems like a good rest day thing. But it's really hard to keep it a rest day thing. You know, it's really easy to go hard. 

Charlie Manganiello  11:05

It's damn near impossible.

Kris Hampton  11:06

 Yeah. And, and I, I want to know what to talk to people about as far as how do you switch up from sport to sport? Or can you switch up from sport to sport effectively? Do you have to just accept mediocrity? And some of them or all of them?

Charlie Manganiello  11:28

Oh, man, that is a loaded question. And I'm sure it will take up most of our time. It's, it's a, it's one that we get asked a lot at the gym. It's one that I struggle my, my myself with, and I see it all the time at the crag are, are folks talking about wanting to combine the running and the climbing. And it's really hard for people to understand or grasp the two different concepts. You know, Steve said, in that one podcast, like, you know, runners should climb as much as they, you know, excuse me, runners should climb as much as climbers run and vice versa. And there's nothing wrong with running, like, it's totally cool. And a lot of people like it. But if we're talking purely about being a better climber, and using all your focus and your energy, and your adaptation potential, like running is taking something away, not that you can't do it on a rest day, or kind of have these seasons where maybe you run a little bit more, because it's super hot and lander in July, like it is right now. And you can kind of focus a little more and running. But you really have to own the decision, and not justify, like, Oh, I'm just gonna run a little bit. And right, it's just gonna, it's just gonna blow up eventually, in your face.

Kris Hampton  12:50

Yeah. And I think that's the important thing is own the decision, like, make your decision. And sometimes that decision is going to be, I want to be a good climber, I want to be a good runner, and I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit on either end to be good at both of them. So, you know, and I think that's something that you're not necessarily struggling with, but that you're trying to balance. And so I'm just interested in digging into, how do you balance that like? How do you balance it like, Do you run while you're climbing training? Or while you're climbing, performing? Or do you quit entirely? The running while you're training for climbing? How does it work for you? 

Charlie Manganiello  13:32

Yeah, I've I guess I've tried to two ways, it would kind of, I guess, be examples from the last two summers. I tried the, like, Oh, I'm just gonna try to be good at everything. Or, you know, trying to be everything. Yeah. at once. And I could, it was funny, I was working. I wasn't at the gym full time. And I could I could tell Bechtel was like, yeah, we'll see how that goes for you. And I wasn't it was it was not me trying to be like, oh, I'll show him. I was just like, I really thought I could do it. 

Kris Hampton  14:07

Yeah.

Charlie Manganiello  14:08

 And it just, it didn't happen. I mean, I just was okay at both things. Again, there's nothing wrong with that, like I hope, I hope you understand that you can, like be a runner and a climber.

Kris Hampton  14:21

Yeah, whatever you enjoy. That's what you should be doing.

Charlie Manganiello  14:24

And there are some serious athletes out there. I know. I don't know this gentleman, in particular. But I know Steve knows someone who lives over in the Teton Valley. And he's like, top level runner, he's pretty high up there. And he also climbed, you know, 13 plus, or I think even 14 minus and what Steve has said, on another podcast, or what I've seen in my own kind of training and training other folks, is he's making or maybe he doesn't make a decision, but he is literally taking away from one of those. 

Kris Hampton  14:53

That's what I was gonna say, just because he's climbing harder than we are. Doesn't mean he's climbing his best or running his best. 

Charlie Manganiello  14:59

Yeah. And that's the thing. people confuse their bras with other people.  Like, you know, people like, I know, people that do half marathons and climb 5.14. Like, that's just that's not you. I mean, 

Kris Hampton  15:13

Right. 

Charlie Manganiello  15:13

They're just a completely different a different mutant athlete. But they are taking away from their own redpoints because of that.

Kris Hampton  15:20

Sure. 

Charlie Manganiello  15:21

Um, and, you know, a hybrid of, kind of, to your question is, you can pick seasons, and you can choose to kind of have a redpoint season, maybe have a spring season and maybe have like, I want to get out in the mountains and alpine, that small window, whether it be in the western kind of United States, or wherever you live, where it's like the summer hot, kind of non redpoint season, and then kind of pick and choose or cycle through those maybe in four months cycles. So it'd be, you know, four months, four months, four months, four months, four months, four months.

Kris Hampton  15:58

Right. Or whatever yourlocal area dictates, you know, I guess in that sense, when you're planning those seasons out, you kind of have to think about the weather in your area and plan your red point, season four, when the weather's good.

Charlie Manganiello  16:16

 Absolutely.

Kris Hampton  16:17

 If you're if you're a Red River climber, and you're planning to red point in July and August, you've fucked up.

Charlie Manganiello  16:23

 Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, and that's what needs to happen. When you're planning, any sort of training. It's the five years out, or the three years out, even, you can't think about the strength training or the climbing training that you want to do. Like two months out, you've already missed the boat, like you're too late. And so you have to look at a calendar. And if you're really serious about getting better at whatever sport doesn't have to be running, I know running is definitely the thing that seems to always come up in the climbing world. But you have to be like, okay, I'm going to I want to redpoint. And during the during the fall, I mean, that's like, where most people want to read short, a spring here. It's nice and cool, or say the desert in the summer. But you have to be able to pick that calendar apart. And tell yourself like when you're going to shut the climbing down, or when you're going to shut the running down. Or when you're going to shut the string climbing down to then have a three four month build into whatever season you're going into. And and I've seen it with some pretty top level climbers and BJ is another example of it. I mean, this guy is one of the best sport climbers around, right?

Kris Hampton  17:33

 Absolutely. 

Charlie Manganiello  17:33

And I saw two very distinct seasons from him. Two years ago, he came off climbing super hard at Wolf Point. And then he just shut it down, like sometime around December. And then just focus on skiing. He wasn't necessarily training for skiing, but he just told himself, or at least as far as I could tell, and he could tell me I'm full of shit. But um, he just really stopped climbing and wanted to ski a bunch. He had some trips planned with some friends. He ended up I think skiing the Grand for the second time, which is like totally no small feat. I mean, people dream of climbing or skiing the Grand. And I think also in that same trip, he skied off a skillet or a glacier there, the handle off of Mount Moran. And then he had an awesome season. Like he basically if you put it into climbing terms climbed a couple, 5.14s. And then March hit and he was back to climbing again, any and people think that if you take that time off, you're gonna start from like, complete ground zero. Yeah, you're going to start weaker, and the climbs are gonna feel harder. But you get that strength back super easily. And you can get right back into your groove. And then you can maybe climb the next winter or or choose to go skiing.

Kris Hampton  18:49

Yep. And I think I think you know, using that BJ metaphor using him as the example. I'm talking with him later this week, about, about what I'm just about to say now. And I think this is part of why there are BJs out there who can and you who can switch from sport to sport, and do fairly well is because, you know, BJ may not necessarily train so to speak for any of the sports he's good at. But what he does when he goes out there is he's very, very mindful of what he's doing. And he approaches it analytically and like he's practicing all the time, he notices small things that he can change to make himself better constantly. And, and I think that's really important when you're not just training for one sport or trying to excel in one sport, but especially when you're trying to excel in multiple sports at once is you can really cut down on the the physical toll that it's taking on you by being mentally aware and being mindful of what your doing.

Charlie Manganiello  20:00

Absolutely. 

Kris Hampton  20:01

So I think that's a super important thing that that I'm sure that you do because you're a kettlebell guy, and, and a coach who's constantly noticing those things with other people. So I'm sure that you do it with yourself. 

Charlie Manganiello  20:14

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  20:14

And I know that BJ does it because I've been watching it day in and day out while we're up at the Rodeo Wave climbing, and I'm impressed by it every day. So I think that's super important. 

Charlie Manganiello  20:24

Yeah. And another example of this is, Steve and I both had to do a pretty rigorous, rigorous strength training program for one of our Strong First Certifications. It's a level two, it's the next one up from that level one, if folks are familiar, but one of the strength test is having to press half your body weight. And it has...

Kris Hampton  20:47

 I remember Steve practicing for this last year.

Charlie Manganiello  20:48

Yeah. And as a as a climber, and also a little guy. I mean, I'm like 155 pounds. And putting, you know, I had to it was like weight classes. So I had to put 80 or 79 pounds over my head. It was like, seemingly impossible. I we both didn't even press the weight until we got to the certification. I went into it like, Well, I hope I hope it goes I hope that the group psych kind of gets me to put this thing up overhead. But I focused on it. I was committed...

Kris Hampton  21:18

You went in with something of an injury. 

Charlie Manganiello  21:21

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  21:22

Kinda leading up to it

Charlie Manganiello  21:23

And and it comes back fast. Yep shoulder. Yep, and so I just I kept doing the workouts I kept making up the focus, I was still climbing, I was bouldering a bunch, I was doing these press workouts, but my climbing suffered, but it wasn't a bad thing. Because when you do when you focus on something, say it's not climbing, if that's what we're talking about, if if you're listening to this, and you're scared of letting go of the climbing training cycle, focus on something, do it for six weeks, eight weeks, or mine was like, you know, four or five months. I did it, I felt super good about it. It was you know, that feeling you feel after redpointing something that you've tried 50 times. And what's cool about that strength training is you're never far from it really ever again, unless you completely, just let it go. But Steve and I were just talking about it the other day, I'm still pretty close to pressing the 79 pound kettlebell the half pound, or half bodyweight press, which was completely impossible in the beginning. But now I don't have to work as hard. I've already done all that hard work, right. And I can go into it. And maybe I'll do a couple press cycles and be like, get it from my recertification. And it's the same thing with climbing. You put the hard work in, you have a great redpoint season, or maybe not even a great maybe even mediocre redpoint season. And you come off and you do some strength training. Or maybe you're into running and you want to train for a Tough Mudder or something I don't know. But you're not going to lose what you think you're going to lose. It's just not gonna happen. I mean, I see really good climbers. I mean, the average climber around lander, I mean, climbs like 13 plus, but I've seen people come off injuries or just their motivation was very high have been, you know, out for a few months. And I still see them get on 12 pluses and they might have to fight for it. Yeah, they might have that crazy forum burn but it just it comes back fast and they do it.

Kris Hampton  22:42

Yeah. And I've just experienced that myself. You know, when I was here last year, I was, you know, just able to start doing, you know, incline push ups and, you know, doing extremely inclined rose. And so it was, you know, it was scary, because I just come off my hardest red point. And, and then all of a sudden, I'm having surgery and they're telling me you're not going to be full strength again for 18 months. You know, and I'm like, I'm freaking out.

Charlie Manganiello  23:54

You're like, I'm not gonna  be able to climb 5.9 again.

Kris Hampton  23:56

Right. But six months after surgery, I sent my hardest boulder problems. 

Charlie Manganiello  24:02

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  24:02

You know, and now I'm right now I'm feeling stronger than I ever have on the rodeo wave, which is a pretty burly little wall. 

Charlie Manganiello  24:11

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  24:11

You know.

Charlie Manganiello  24:11

Just bouldering really. 

Kris Hampton  24:13

So and I'm a little over a year out from surgery. So and that's doing nothing for months, you know, complete atrophy in my shoulder. If you're, if you're quitting climbing for a couple of months, but being physical in other ways, then you're not gonna lose a ton, you know. And if you're climbing a little like you said, you were still you were still going climbing. You were still bouldering. You were just focused on on the overhead pressing. You're, you're maintaining.

Charlie Manganiello  24:45

Yeah, exactly. 

Kris Hampton  24:45

At the very least. So and if you're taking that same practice approach that we just talked about, you're probably getting better. You may not be becoming a stronger climber, necessarily you you're still going to have to transfer this new strength that you got from overhead pressing into your climbing. But you're becoming better by taking a more practice oriented approach.

Charlie Manganiello  25:04

Yeah, absolutely. And Bechtel talk about it a little bit. And that last deadlift podcast we did the strength training or the climbing training or running training you do. It's the whole investment strategy or money analogy, that money that you put away from your two week paycheck, when you're 26 years old, is gonna be what you use, when you're 50 years old, 60 years old, it's the same thing thing with the training, you have to go into any of these cycles is training, thinking about the five year goal, the five year plan. That stuff is, I feel like the strength training that I did literally, that this day last year, is now like coming into play, for sure. And the strength training I did yesterday, is what I'm going to use a year from now you have to think of it in that long term investment. It's not, you're not going to make a quick buck on any of these workouts, it's all about stacking them in your favor, throughout the season. And I get that question a lot. You know, I see it in the gym, I see people get really strong. And I hear folks in my class or people in the gym like, wow, that person is really strong, or how did you get to be that strong? And they must just be a freak of nature. 

Kris Hampton  26:23

Right.

Charlie Manganiello  26:24

And, and all those people do I mean, I'm in the gym every single day, I know exactly what they do. They come in, they punch the clock, and not that they're like being lazy or not intentional with their workout. But they get in there for 50 minutes to an hour and a half. And they do it. And they are there two, three times a week, every single week. And that's why they're so strong. And it's the same thing with climbing.

Kris Hampton  26:46

Yeah, exactly. They're putting the work in. So let's say you're, let's say you're in the middle of a redpoint season, and you're you're climbing well, how do you know when to cut it off? And start training for the next season? Your for the next sport? You know, maybe if the weather continues? Do you just continue with climbing even though you've got goals in the other sports? Or do you lay it out on the calendar and kind of let the calendar guide you?

Charlie Manganiello  27:18

I mean, the short answer is you don't know. But there I think there are tricks or ways to hold yourself accountable. Because that's really, really hard to do. And we see it in the gym all the time, people will PR on a lift. And they just immediately they won't even take the gratification of like pulling their hardest weight off the ground. They'll just want to Okay, next week, I'm gonna try more next year to try more. So I think that's why having a calendar and planning out what you want to do. I mean, be real, be realistic, right? Like, you know, if you're a 12 plus climber, and you're like, my goal is to climb 12a, then you haven't done your job to, to push yourself.

Kris Hampton  28:04

You're just looking for gratification at that point.

28:06

You're like, I just want to feel that like nice, warm hug. Yeah, you say you're climbing 12b 12c, and you're, you know, your goal should be, you know, or that's your hardest point today, maybe your goal is 12d 13a, you know, once you get a couple of those, or maybe even just one, you know, your first step off a peak is is down, it's never up. And you can either choose to fall and tumble off that peak, by keep beating your head against the wall and trying to climb harder, or you can intentionally walk off the top of that peak, give yourself a little pat on the back and then put your head down and it's into the next cycle. And you you can extend it I think if you if you want to i mean it's it's it's I think it's up to the individual and you have to kind of know how your body reacts to that stuff. But yeah, you can only do it so long, then you have to come down.

Kris Hampton  28:56

Yep. And I think it takes season after season of doing this to know where the peak is, like, you know, if you're just starting training, and you're, you know, if you're a 5.10 climber and you just really started dedicating yourself to climbing and practicing and your first season, you don't necessarily want to stop at 10b, you might be at the 11c level. Yeah, already. You know, it's so it's hard to hard to know when to stop at first, but I think once you've invested, you know, year after year into this thing, it gets easier to learn. Okay, I can feel like my body, I can feel that it's at its peak right now. It's about to start going downhill. And then you can make those kind of decisions. Yeah, I think it's tough early on, just for the people out there listening, or just getting psyched on this stuff. It's tough to know. 

Charlie Manganiello  29:48

And, and we all have experienced it when you first start climbing. I mean, those numbers jump up so quickly. Yeah. And you don't really have a peak. You just keep getting better because you're like oh I and now I know He'll look is and you know, I know what an underling is. And I can put my body in different positions to do different moves. But then once you start to get that plateau, maybe around, I feel like it's 11. I don't know, maybe 11 plus. 

Kris Hampton  30:12

Yeah, I think I think there's a few of them right around right around 12 a, and then probably right around 12 plus 13 minus.

Charlie Manganiello  30:19

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  30:19

You know, it depends on the person. But yeah, usually right around there.

Charlie Manganiello  30:23

And then that's when the more experienced climber and whether it's five years or 20 years, you have to be psyched that you got your goal and then move on. But when you're just like climbing 5.10s, like, just keep trying to push it and climb more. I don't think the super focused calendar of seasons or strength training for that kind of beginner climber is necessary isn't really necessary. 

Kris Hampton  30:53

Yep. I agree.

Charlie Manganiello  30:53

You just got to keep climbing.

Kris Hampton  30:54

I agree. I agree. In fact, I even tell people to climb into and through the bad season, you know, yeah, I see a lot of people kind of watch the, you know, the season that that I'll stick to, you know, in the Red for years, I stuck to this, you climb in the spring, you climb in the fall, I don't even go to the Red in the summer, and uh, maybe in the winter, I'll go a day or two, just because it happens to be a nice day. But I don't go out there with intentions to perform, generally speaking. And I see new climbers latch on to that, who've, you know, climbed up to 5.11, maybe, maybe 5.12. And, and they'll they're like, Oh, I'm not climbing this summer. You know? And I'm like, Why? You know, I spent you you need to be doing hundreds of 5.10s and 11s. 

Charlie Manganiello  31:45

Yeah. And do it in crappy conditions. 

Kris Hampton  31:47

Yeah. Yeah, go out there and practice and and just build this giant base underneath you. I think that's really important. 

Charlie Manganiello  31:54

Yeah, we all have home home crags. Right, and you know, we climb in the bitter cold sometimes up, it Sinks in it. Yeah, it sucks. But those are the days you maybe go down four grades and you just do volume. It's not a redpointing day, even if it was like, oh, at least with Sinks sometimes you can have like some really awesome redpointing days in the winter. But maybe the weather turned on you and you just have to, I guess it was to finish the the whole when to come off a peak. I guess this ties in is you can make a plan and you should follow your plan. definitely follow your plan through like, the worst thing we see in the gym is someone tries a string train training plan or climbing plan for two days, two weeks. And like I didn't work this class this plans bullshit. And it's like, well, you didn't finish it. You know, and, and maybe it is a terrible plan. But the benefit of actually following through with a plan is super important as your training progresses. Because there are going to be times where you don't want to finish it. But as soon as you create that default of that habit in your own workout patterns, it's gonna creep into other parts of your workout whether you like it or not, and people always say no, no, no, not me. But with the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. And I remember learning that the hard way when I was, like, early 20s. Remember my mentor 10 years older and me saying it saying that to me? And I'm like, What do you mean? Like, I'm just, I'm just making a little shortcut here. And he's like, man, if you start shortcutting one way, it's gonna creep into your professional life, your workout life, your love life, whatever. 

Kris Hampton  33:28

Yeah. 

Charlie Manganiello  33:29

And yeah, it was a valuable lesson. I think it the same thing goes for, for working out.

Kris Hampton  33:35

I think it's even harder to like you were just saying with Sinks here, it's even tougher to know, because you can kind of climb all year round here. And the conditions are pretty good. All year round. You know, even though it's 100 degrees in town right now you go up to Wild Iris early in the morning and in the shade. And it's 65 67 degrees, you know, Sinks. It could be, I don't know, 10 degrees in town. And it's, you know, nice and sunny up at the wall. So...

Charlie Manganiello  34:02

Yeah, we we're pretty spoiled here. I mean, everyone just has seasonal projects. And that's why you don't see any locals climbing of it Sinks in the summer, even though it's like totally fine. When it's not the sun. 

Kris Hampton  34:11

Yeah. 

Charlie Manganiello  34:12

People just know they have to climb there all winter.

Kris Hampton  34:14

Yeah. And so it's tough to know when to quit, you know, so I like I like the idea of, you know, hitting your peak really paying attention to what your body's telling you and then being okay with stepping off the peak instead of fighting it.

Charlie Manganiello  34:28

Yeah. And I guess the last thing I'll say on that are is you don't have to be married to the plan. You have to have a plan first to even follow something or follow through. But yeah, I mean, maybe you're just feeling super strong. And you know, maybe a week two week extension on what you thought would be your peak. Go for it. Give it a whirl. And write it down like write how you felt. Write the grades you climbed people always forget, you know.

Kris Hampton  35:03

They forget so fast.

Charlie Manganiello  35:05

 Yeah, I mean, between even two days of a class people will forget like what weight they lifted? And literally what weightlifting. I don't I don't remember, I can barely remember my weights. That's why I write them down. Yeah. But write that stuff down. And maybe you don't even look back at it. I mean, you should. But by writing it down, I think you almost even committed to memory a little more,

Kris Hampton  35:25

For sure. It's like cheating on tests when you were in high school. You write a cheat sheet, you don't need it.

Charlie Manganiello  35:31

That's right. And then it is it is really good to look back at that stuff. Because then you can know what worked. You're like, what did I do for the last two months before this awesome peak. So I can try to recreate it. Yeah, and you can always recreate it, but and then on the flip side of that is maybe your calendars too aggressive, and you can feel your body shutting down. There's no reason it's like, it's no different than not going to the summit weather rolls in. Someone's got high altitude sickness or whatever how whatever analogy you want to use, there's, there's really a ton of value and being just, I'm going to pull the plug. We want athletes to kind of push themselves and push themselves through any discomfort or get them out of their comfort zone. But then there's just the obvious like, if we go to the top of this summit, we're gonna die.

Kris Hampton  36:20

Yeah, you want them to be able to push themselves next week, too. 

Charlie Manganiello  36:23

Yeah, exactly. 

Kris Hampton  36:24

Not just today.

Charlie Manganiello  36:25

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, the, the worst thing an athlete can do is get injured. And that's what we're always trying to prevent, because then they're out and they can't, they can't train, they can't put money, they can't put any money in the bank. They're basically they're using money to go to PT, yeah, and not use it on their gym membership. And that could be I mean, you know, what that's like, it's awful.

Kris Hampton  36:45

For sure. So, you've switched over to training for the next sport or training for your next round of redpoint, season or whatever. It's really easy to just keep training, you know, trainings, fun, a lot of people love it, it's easier to quantify, than performance is in any of these sports, you know, you know, you can time your skiing, and you can time your running. And that's, that's quantifiable, but, but you know, when you're skiing well, and you know, when you're making tons of mistakes, and the time may may not necessarily reflect that the same as with climbing, you know, you may climb a harder number, but you know, whether it was harder for you or not.

Charlie Manganiello  37:30

Yeah, it might be your style, or whatever.

Kris Hampton  37:32

 So how do you know, when to stop training, and actually start trying to perform in the next sport? Is that another, you know, sort of pay attention to your calendar? or listen to your body? Or is it both of those things? 

Charlie Manganiello  37:49

Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. You know, we never want to stop training. But we certainly want to cut the volume down, and whatever, you know, weights we're using, we always want to maintain the strength that we have with the strength that we've built. But you don't have to do much. I mean, you certainly don't want to do it once a month. You're just you're, you're gonna, you're, you're gonna have a terrible trajectory of strength if you do that. But, you know, sometimes it's, you can do every four to five, maybe six days, where maybe it's one strength session, one week, and then it's to the next week, one, the next week, two to one to whatever, you'll find out what works best for you. And that's why it's really important to write down those numbers. Because if a good example for at least for climbing, or I'll give an example for weight training, is that we have a famous climb called Killer. It's a 12c, everyone you know, that gets on it for the first time is like, holy cow. This thing is super hard way harder. And then you see someone like you know, Steve Babbitt's or Steve Bechtel to get on and you're like, that looks like a 5.10. But Steve knows in his training, or in his climbing world, if he gets on Killer, and he falls on it, or it feels really hard. He's lost something like he needs to go back to the drawing board. He's like, well, maybe I haven't climbed as much as I wanted to, or should have. And it's the same thing with the strength training. I mean, we all have numbers, we should know, like our benchpress, deadlift, maybe our front squat, to just kind of have a baseline. And so like, if I go into the gym, and I can't pull like 315 pounds for a deadlift, I know I have not dead lifted for a really long time where I've got weak in my hamstrings or my posterior chain, and I need to get back into it, or I have not done the necessary maintenance to keep my strength to then build on another cycle. So I know that's super individualized. But that's kind of up to the athlete to make sure they know.

Kris Hampton  39:54

Yeah, and I think if you have if you have those baselines and you know where you're at, especially with strength training, that's something that's going to apply to all of your sports, no matter what they are, you know, that's that deadlift is going to help you on climbing, it's going to help you in skiing, it's going to help you in running, just having that having that general overall body strength. So if you have those numbers, that's, that's a good way to be training For all of your sports. 

Charlie Manganiello  40:20

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, the stronger you are, and folks have probably heard this analogy, it's a Brett Jones quote, where it's the think of a big glass jar, like that's your strength. And then everything you put in the jar is, you know, running the climbing, swimming, maybe you're a triathlete. And the stronger that glass that the strength training, the more you can do better. Yeah, you know, if you have a really weak strength base, that glass is smaller, it's like a shot glass. Yeah, and maybe you're only doing one thing you can't, you know, it's really cool when you get to this point of being, like strong for you. And, and people always talk about different numbers, you know, you need to know what's good for you. There's a, but you can just google like, what's a good deadlift for my bodyweight benchpress, and you can look that up. But if you keep maintaining the strength, it's really cool. When you're never far from being strong, where you can get off the couch and go do a big hike up the Grand or something, get off the couch and go, you know, climb 12a or get off the couch and, you know, do a sprint triathlon in your hometown and do pretty well. And that's all we're trying to say, when you're trying to maintain strength, you're never far from it. You never get to that point where you're starting from ground zero again.

Kris Hampton  41:37

Yeah. And it would it be fair to say that, you know, one of the important things for training for multiple sports moreso than just one single sport would be to keep your athleticism up and your you know, and I think strength is a big part of that, you know, for, for instance, when I was younger, I was definitely a better athlete than I am now. I've focused more on climbing than I have any other sport for a long time now. And I can tell when I go get on a skateboard that I'm a little clunkier than I used to be for sure. Or when I try to run I definitely can't run like I used to or, or whatever it is, you know, gymnastics, I definitely don't have the mobility and flexibility I once did. So I can tell that my athleticism has dropped. And that's been something I've focused on more the last three or four years is gaining some of that athleticism back. 

Charlie Manganiello  42:35

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  42:36

So, you know, is that a fair statement to make?

Charlie Manganiello  42:39

Absolutely. And it's, I remember before I got into training and being a coach, I truly thought it was rocket science, of how to how to train and be strong. Yeah. And yes, it totally can get super specific in whatever sport you choose. But there's only a literally four major movement patterns that you really need to focus on. And it's a hip hinge, it's a squat, it's a push in a pull. And that should be your focus for strength training. And that's what makes an athlete because they're strong and all those things and they're balanced. You know, we see it with the climbers, you know, you could strap 100 pound kettlebell and most kettlebell climb on a climber, and they could pull 100 pounds plus bodyweight, and you put them under a barbell on a benchpress. And they're like, can't even do their body weight. Right. And like, if someone can't do their bodyweight, it's an obvious sign that they're not as they're not as athletic as they should be. And it's the same thing. You know, you see a lot of folks that are, you know, quadzilla that loves squatting. And they have a really good squat. But if their squat isn't close, or, or about the same as a benchpress, there's an obvious imbalance. And they're not as athletic as they should be. And they're not an athlete really.

Kris Hampton  43:54

 Sure.

Charlie Manganiello  43:54

Um, and I was there. A couple of years ago, we had a great trainer. He doesn't live in town anymore, but he got me super psyched on it and got he got me on to the benchpress. And I think I was like, 155 at the time, I guess what I am now. And I think I did like 135 once. It was like the hardest thing I've ever done. He's like, you are weak. 

Kris Hampton  44:14

Yeah. 

Charlie Manganiello  44:14

And I thought I was like a strong dude. 

Kris Hampton  44:16

That'shard. That's hard to stomach.

Charlie Manganiello  44:17

Yeah, it's super hard. I mean, you know, he couldn't, you know, I thought being strong was like holding on that end of a doorframe, which he couldn't do, but, you know, better bench pressing is very humbling. If you're not good at it.

Kris Hampton  44:30

For sure. 

Charlie Manganiello  44:31

And in my front squat was out. But yeah, my bench was way off and, and you know, everyone knows the push, like the bench press will help with injury for climbers. And there's actual science behind it. Like your body has a governor. So kind of the best way to describe it, where if you get so strong at the pull, and you don't get good at a push, your body will eventually shut your whole strength down. Yeah, yeah. So it's literally like not being strong push, which we don't really do in climbing that much anyways, actually does hurt your climbing?

Kris Hampton  45:08

For sure. So since we're talking a ton about, you know, having a baseline having these numbers that you can go back to and test yourself, do you have some basic numbers that that you think climbers should be looking for?

Charlie Manganiello  45:26

Yeah, um, let's see. So the deadlift I know we mentioned in the last pod, a podcast and males, and this is kind of high. But like, if if anyone can do double their bodyweight for a deadlift that is strong enough, or easy...

Kris Hampton  45:41

That's for men.

Charlie Manganiello  45:42

That's for men and for women about one and a half times. And, again, we're talking about being strong enough. We're not talking about being the next power lifter,

Kris Hampton  45:53

Right.

Charlie Manganiello  45:54

You know, some CrossFit Games or something.

Kris Hampton  45:56

Yeah. And then once you get to that number, that's where you should aim to maintain. 

Charlie Manganiello  46:01

Yep

Kris Hampton  46:01

You know, you should stop focusing all your energy on the deadlift at that point.

Charlie Manganiello  46:06

And even if you're a little below it, that's fine. But that's a good benchmark, folks should be able to bench their body weight.

Kris Hampton  46:14

You think thatthat holds true for men and women. 

Charlie Manganiello  46:16

Yep.

Kris Hampton  46:16

Okay.

Charlie Manganiello  46:17

 And then it maybe maybe .75 for for females just because the muscle mass, I'd have to actually check on that. Maybe I'll, I'll get back to you on that. And then front squats should equal bench. So you shouldn't have like a 200 pound front squat, and 100 pound bench press.

Kris Hampton  46:35

Right, right.

Charlie Manganiello  46:39

And, you know, bodyweight front squats. But you can certainly go up way more from that for sure. You know, one and a half 1.25 for folks.

Kris Hampton  46:47

And then pulling, because climbers, love, love love to do pull ups. And I generally try to keep them to a minimum, even though people are like, you know, I'll get these notes every day from people's training. And they're like, you know, did the workout added 75 pull ups? And I'm like, come on, you know? 

Charlie Manganiello  47:10

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  47:11

When when you tell me two days later that you're you can't do your workout. Those are gonna be like, why did you do 75? Extra pull ups? 

Charlie Manganiello  47:17

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  47:18

But do we have a rough pulling weight?

Charlie Manganiello  47:23

I don't have one. I would say 90% of climbers just don't even need to worry about it. Yeah, I mean, they're just they're so strong. And I know there's plenty of dudes and females that can't do one or two. But they still have like, if you got them on a bent over row or right, did a pull lat pull down machine, they would hit the number.

Kris Hampton  47:45

 Right. 

Charlie Manganiello  47:45

They just they just don't need to. There's, you know, it's fun to you know, if you're the climbers best, and you want to, you know, when the pull up competition, there's plenty of awesome pull up programs, probably even maybe not hurt your climb, but even help your climbing. But yeah, I don't think anyone and we've and we've even written, we've even wrote strength programs, where, for climbers where we just don't even have a pull in there.

Kris Hampton  48:10

Yeah, I keep them out quite a bit. In fact, about the only time I put them in is when there's, you know, some sort of it seems there's some sort of stability issue going on. And then it's generally rows, some sort of inverted row. Or, you know, if the people are so adamant that they have to be doing pull ups, then maybe we'll do some sort of, you know, heavy hardstyle pull up where, you know, we're making sure they're keeping a hollow body and  you know, making sure they're doing it perfect.

Charlie Manganiello  48:43

And the one that we use, yeah, when we use is, you know, really specializing it. So we'll do like the one arm inverted row where they'll be down, you know, on their heels, and it's just mimicking climbing. Yeah. I can't imagine a lot of people in the strength world would be wanting to do one arm, inverted rows, but we do because it makes us stronger and lock off strain.

Kris Hampton  49:05

Yeah. And when you're climbing, you're doing hundreds and hundreds of rows every session. You know so..

Charlie Manganiello  49:11

It's no different than a skier wanting to do one leg squats because that's what you're doing every time you turn.

Kris Hampton  49:16

Right. And, you know, I heard this was a good point that I heard a flexibility expert point out once he said, you know, if you go into a yoga class, or you know, a dance class or whatever, everybody sitting down is stretching their hamstrings. They go in, they start stretching their hamstrings is what they do. They're all ridiculously flexible. Their belly buttons are on the floor. When they're in a straddle. They're, you know, that's what they're all doing. And that's the the one thing none of them need to be doing.

Charlie Manganiello  49:49

Well, yeah, and we all want to do what we're good at. Especially when people are watching.

Kris Hampton  49:55

Oh, yeah.

Charlie Manganiello  49:56

And you go into a class and you just get smoked by a bunch of like, 45 year old women, yeah, and they're super strong.

Kris Hampton  50:06

That's why I go into those classes. 

Charlie Manganiello  50:07

Yeah, that's right. Um, but yeah, the thing that you're not doing is what you need to do. Yeah, I mean, bottom line, and people know that if you're honest with yourself, you know what you need to do?

Kris Hampton  50:19

Yeah. And that, and that, like we're talking about here in general, I think that helps out your athleticism that helps out your strength that helps out, you being better at other sports and being able to transfer what you're learning, you know, in the in the weight room over to those sports, you know, the more athletic you are, the easier you're going to have it when you try to pick up the next sport for the next season or whatever.

Charlie Manganiello  50:45

Yeah. And in the end, one of the things that people need to also do is like, own what you're doing. And what I mean by that, I guess a couple different things, is when you're, like, take it seriously. I think some people think that it's lame, or you get made fun of if you're like, Oh, I'm not going to go out tonight, because I'm trying to climb hard tomorrow. Those are usually the people that are climbing hard or climbing better than their peers. Yep. Um, and again, there's nothing wrong with drinking a bunch of beers at the crag. We've all been there. But I see I've sought a lot this summer, actually, where, you know, people would come off their project, and oh, man, I almost had it. And then they slug a beer. And then they go try it again. And they got like, super close. And like, I just look at him like imagine, like what you would have done if you didn't just slug a beer. 

Kris Hampton  51:39

Right. 

Charlie Manganiello  51:39

And so, again, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, and I've certainly been there. But you have to be like, I'm going to have this PBR and be okay with it. Yeah, it's gonna sacrifice my redpoint. 

Kris Hampton  51:53

Exactly. And you know, my first trip here to lander. Eight years ago, I guess. I stayed with Chris Lindner. And at the time, he was, he was definitely a good climber. And he was in the upper, you know, ranks of American climbers, but he wasn't the best climber by any means. And, but what he did that really impressed me and ended up having a really great trip here. You know, he crushed a bunch of things, and pretty quick succession was that he would, he wouldn't stay up and party with his friends. And he would get up super early to take advantage of the best temperatures. You know, it's the middle of July, he knew that he needed to be at the crag at 6 or 7am to try and send something. And that's what he did. You know, he would, he would have a great time with his friends. But when it you know, nine o'clock rolled around, and it was time to start preparing for the next day. That's what he did. 

Charlie Manganiello  51:55

Yeah, did the Irish goodbye. 

Kris Hampton  51:58

Yeah. And he go, and that was really impressive to me. You know, I hadn't really seen that happen with any pros that I'd hung out with at that point. So

Charlie Manganiello  53:04

Yeah, and I think people try to anchor themselves on to really good climbers, still drinking a bunch of beer, whatever, staying up late and still climbing hard. But they don't think of the flip side, like what they could be doing right isn't doing that. And it sounds like such a party pooper. Bummer way. But it's just the reality.

Kris Hampton  53:27

Yeah, for sure. 

Charlie Manganiello  53:28

We've all we've all been there.

Kris Hampton  53:29

Yep. Anything else you want to add to this being a multi sport athlete, Bo Jackson type of guy.

Charlie Manganiello  53:38

Bo Jackson. Uh, yeah, I think people need to know that it's doable, um, know that you are sacrificing your potential in certain sports that you like to do by trying to do multiple sports. But you can, you can really focus your year around what you like to do. I mean, you can't have your cake and eat it. You got to pick and choose which one you want to be good at maybe for a season or maybe for even a year. You know, you can be a multiple, multiple multi sport athlete. And new for a solid year, you're going to be a climber. And then for a solid year, you're going to be a runner. It doesn't have to necessarily be within a calendar year or a year that you prescribe for yourself. But you have to have to sit down with the calendar and you got to write it out. Because if you're just that person that kind of ebbs and flows with the season. You're just it's just you're going to be mediocre at everything.

Kris Hampton  54:37

And you're going to look back and think, Wow, it could have made so much more that.

Charlie Manganiello  54:41

Wasted years.

Kris Hampton  54:41

Had I really planned 

Charlie Manganiello  54:42

And yeah, you should, folks should really think about challenging themselves to really, you know, maybe they're a really good runner that happens to also be a pretty good climber, like just put the running aside, and, and just try to actually focus on climbing and I think everyone will see it. See it. 

Kris Hampton  55:00

Right. Yeah. If that's something you want to do, don't be afraid. 

Charlie Manganiello  55:03

Yeah, exactly.

Kris Hampton  55:04

 I think that's what it all comes down to. 

Charlie Manganiello  55:05

Exactly.

Kris Hampton  55:06

 Cool. 

Charlie Manganiello  55:06

Cool. 

Kris Hampton  55:07

All right. Thanks, man. I appreciate it again. 

Charlie Manganiello  55:09

As always, yes. Like, went from zero podcasts to two podcasts.

Kris Hampton  55:13

 And  now you're like you're pro now, you're gonna take Steve's place as, as the official co-host.

55:18

I told Steve I'm gunning for a spot now. It's funny I did I hopefully my sister hears this at some point, but I I told her I was on a podcast recently, like last week, and she's like, oh, no way. What podcasts like, Oh, you probably never heard of it. It's like this NPR. You know, This American Life and she's like, "What, what you didn't tell me that?" I was like, "No of course i wasn't on NPR." This is the This American Life of climbing podcasts.

Kris Hampton  55:47

Are you trying to say we're not as good as NPR?

55:47

Hey, no, this is the This American Life of climbing podcast, but uh, ya, no, it's always a pleasure and thanks for having me. 

Kris Hampton  55:52

Yeah. Thanks, Charlie. I appreciate it. So there you have it, folks, the no nonsense approach to being a multi sport athlete from Charlie Manganiello and, you know, like I said before, I really like Charlie's real world common sense approach to this thing. he's not, he's not feeding you, some kind of clickbait that says, you can do everything at once. And you can be amazing. You know, he takes this real world approach to it, you need to prioritize, and, and you need to understand that sometimes you're going to be sacrificing performance and another area of your life. And that's okay. We're humans. That's how it works. So big thanks, Charlie, for sitting down with me again. And hopefully, we can do this again in the future. You know, once I'm settled in Lander, I hope to sit down with Charlie and Steve and the guys around there more often. And keep bringing these things to you how I have been so like I mentioned in the intro, go to iTunes, rate us review us and I'll be putting more of these things out for more episodes in the next two months if I get a handful more reviews and ratings, and I would appreciate that. Also, if you want to become a patron, which helps us greatly helps us keep this thing sponsor and commercial free. We're starting to develop our live podcast ideas. And you know, you can do that by going onto our website, powercompanyclimbing.com and clicking on the podcast tab, or you can visit our page at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. And I will be headed to the New here shortly I'll be headed to the south after that. We've got some workshops going on in the south that I'll be announcing soon. And then I'm headed over to Hueco where I've got some workshops going on around Texas and New Mexico. And maybe I'll see you guys at the Hueco Rock Rodeo. But you're gonna hear a lot from me between now and then assuming you go to iTunes and rate us and review us and temps are getting good here in the Red right now. So I'm going to head out and try to send some things catches on the Instagrams on the Facebook's and as you know no Twitter's we don't tweet we scream like eagles.